JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Secur]

When I log in to the forum, and I think for the majority it's the same, the first thing I do and have done since JFT became real, is to check what's nuz with regard to the JFT, is there a new picture? Who said what or heard what.

Very true bro

 

[Last Hope]

Hi guys,

Just saw this program yesterday and thought I can share it with all of you.
This is a 32 min video but JF 17 Part comes at the beginning.

Jf 17 new squadron has the air to air refueling capability??
Pakistan's own air defence system n can shoot down drones very easily if there is a political wil.

Thanks for that. She seems weird though. She must have enough knowledge of facts herself. I mean, it looks like she is just saying what is told to her on her earpiece, without thinking. Failed from my view.

 

[SBD-3]

I'm delighted someone has picked up on the issue of "branding" -- I was here, referring to branding "information" --- You will note that when we are reviewing information about Western aircraft or missiles or artillery or tanks or ships, we tend to regard that information as "authoritative" and generally "true" - the important lesson here is that the quality of information itself is a brand, this is why I mentioned the opaque quality of Chinese writings on the JFT - we therefore have an opportunity to create credibility and authoritative information about this aircraft and the "experience" of this aircraft - if we can do this successfully, that is to say by disseminating authoritative information about this aircraft, it capabilities and the "experience" of this aircraft, this to say the human elements that motivate, that inspire, people, well, then I think we can be seen as a providing information that will be in much demand.

But sir, again, selling defence product is also critical in a way that even US or Russia will never publish the complete and comprehensive infomation in their systems, some things are kept "classified". I have posted it again and again that We will never get critical information about JFT and Pakistani platforms on any resource which is prone to general access. Do you remember the incident of video made by cadets resulting in an action against them due to some issues with various aircraft types caught unintentionally in the video in background. This should be a fair hint how secretive Pakistani military machine has become over the years. For example, we used to have a lot of Air force documentaries back in early 90s, but now hardly a single one is present. For customers, PAF do participate where the buyers turn up i.e. defence expos. We, the public at large do not construct the clientel of Pakistani defence machine.

 

[Jango]

Well, i think muse means that we should have a media branch which actively promotes the capabilities of the armed forces of Pakistan, we have ISPR, but as fatman said, it is Army-centric really.

But, we should not go around shouting like some people that our project is going to be done in 5 years. There is enough material for the public to view , and when the development is made, then they will come in due time.

If you tell IRST and hardpoints and RAM coating are applied on Geo News, people wont understand it.!

 

[SQ8]

I believe the problem is the PR buildup..
Companies that design and build jets.. like LM or Boeing.. have dedicated outreach teams..
LM for example has its code one magazine.. and yes.. I think I now get where muse it getting at...(I THINK).

for eg.. the assembly line for the Boeing P-8I shifted to full gear.. although that in itself is fairly insignificant..and its absense in the news will not mean the P-8I is dead. However, by bringing that up... and by adding the usual taglines on the aircraft's capabilities.. Boeing manages to provide assurance to its customers that all is progressing well, and at the same time.. gives potential customers a look at the shiny new product.

For the JF though.. the customer is the manufacturer. There has been no concrete effort by the PAF to get involved in any marketing as they seem to have left that to AVIC. In the end, there isnt much required of the PAF's ISPR section where the JF is concerned.
As a whole though.. the media section of our armed forces does need a revamp.

 

[Imran Khan]

what the hell why is AC in this video?

 

[Jango]

I believe the problem is the PR buildup..
Companies that design and build jets.. like LM or Boeing.. have dedicated outreach teams..
LM for example has its code one magazine.. and yes.. I think I now get where muse it getting at...(I THINK).

for eg.. the assembly line for the Boeing P-8I shifted to full gear.. although that in itself is fairly insignificant..and its absense in the news will not mean the P-8I is dead. However, by bringing that up... and by adding the usual taglines on the aircraft's capabilities.. Boeing manages to provide assurance to its customers that all is progressing well, and at the same time.. gives potential customers a look at the shiny new product.

For the JF though.. the customer is the manufacturer. There has been no concrete effort by the PAF to get involved in any marketing as they seem to have left that to AVIC. In the end, there isnt much required of the PAF's ISPR section where the JF is concerned.
As a whole though.. the media section of our armed forces does need a revamp.

But Santro, LM and Boeing are big corporations, and they are huge multi billion companies, so, they have a structure, in that structure they also have a PR department. They sell to their customers.

On the other hand, as you said, JF is being made for the PAF, and so , the machine need not be actively publicized. When it is in full production, with all the gadgetry in place, like IRST and engine is confirmed, then new buyers will come and then publicity will be good. Right now, there is enough material.

 

[Manticore]

the pr team should atleast make a jft intro video on the lines of the videos by saab [eyieye/grippen] and lm f16 blk52 -- nice english script which is informative aswell-- alongwith nice video and commanding voice of the presenter --- this is just a baseline requirement from a pr team , which involves no brainstrorming , rather copying the idea of these companies

 

[SQ8]

But Santro, LM and Boeing are big corporations, and they are huge multi billion companies, so, they have a structure, in that structure they also have a PR department. They sell to their customers.

On the other hand, as you said, JF is being made for the PAF, and so , the machine need not be actively publicized. When it is in full production, with all the gadgetry in place, like IRST and engine is confirmed, then new buyers will come and then publicity will be good. Right now, there is enough material.

Mectron from whom we purchased the MAA-1's isnt that big either.. but their PR dept works well.
The question is... do we need it or not.
How much secrecy in a project is good..and where does it start to become paranoia.

 

[Mani2020]

But sir, defence branding can not be done like an FMCG. For example, just take a look at SAAB's website, filled with promotional material. But in defence more things matter than just marketing oneself. While i rank SAAB's web higher than others (perhaps LMCO is another one) but how many sales have they been able to make? The defence products are a class apart from other products, for having good military sales, there are a host of factors considered than just mere product.For example, A russian ally will never go for Falcon or Eagle, no matter you hire MBAs from Wharton or Harvard to market the product to them. US will not Sell F-22 no matter how much the allies are willing to pay for it. It does not work that way.
Secondly, ISPR is an interlink between military and civil society. Its not ment for marketing the products, but the promotion of armed forces image and communication with civilians. Its usually a political decision and for that I think foreign services and military attache's should be more active than ISPR hiring MBAs

Exactly , also it depends alot on your foreign policy where civil government has to play its part and not only be left to military . If you see what US and Russians have done successfully over the years and now China following them you will understand what i m talking about. Most of these equipments are being sold on influence basis rather than anything else. throughout the history countries bought even what they didn't require just because of the pressure they have from the selling govt. Thats why US has been a successful seller because of the influence they posses and the IR theory they follow. We know Russians over the years have produced many aircrafts better than US counterparts but their influence was limited to few countries within their circle. Even we know how G-3 rifles for PA were bought and what were the factors that influenced the deal to go through.

In most of the cases civil governments are involved to negotiate the deals with their counterparts of other countries and not everything is left to military but sadly our government has many other useless stuff to work with rather than doing a favour to the nation and its economy . Secondly as a third world country and a crippled economy we don't have such influence like US and China or for that matter Russia , I can bet you even if we will built something better than F-16 latest block at a lesser price still we will not be able to compete against that aircraft as US govt will have lot more to offer unless and until we sell them to the countries under the influence of China but that too can only be done for JV and not for sole products

 

[muse]

Friends

A couple of items - first of all this stuff about selling the JFT to arbis and the like - forget about it, it's absolute day dreaming - Why? Because the gulf arbis procure equipment when private parties can agree to cut - and no country in the world procures equipment from countries that cannot offer them strategic diplomatic support in international bodies.


To have a chance at breaking through with as sophisticated a piece of equipment as the JFT, Pakistan must be a economic power, not a economic dwarf -- So please lets focus on real things we can do to promote the JFT

Why do people around the world listen to the BBC? Because the BBC is a master as disseminating information, not just prolifically but because they have gained a reputation for the truth or "real" quality of the information they present - now, that is what we should be aiming at - information is a strategic asset, even as the use of information is a strategic objective.

So what should be the quality of the information we should develop? First it must be truthful, no, not suggesting releasing secret information, rather release information that is truthful, useful and involves human experience, to develop EXCITEMENT, that raises EXPECTATIONS and lives up to them - that is itself a brand -- the JFT should be tied to human experiences, the struggle to develop it, the failures, the determination to continue to seek solution for Pakistan's security, the pioneers, the evolution, the destination, the men and women working to realize that destination.

None of this involves putting out secret information.

 

[razgriz19]

Hi guys,

Just saw this program yesterday and thought I can share it with all of you.
This is a 32 min video but JF 17 Part comes at the beginning.

Jf 17 new squadron has the air to air refueling capability??
Pakistan's own air defence system n can shoot down drones very easily if there is a political wil.

i think what ACM (r) meant was that jf-17 has the capability of air to air refueling.
but the current aircrafts doesn't have it right now, but they can be modiefied later on.......probably block 1 and on will have the mid air refueling capability.

 

[fatman17]

I believe the problem is the PR buildup..
Companies that design and build jets.. like LM or Boeing.. have dedicated outreach teams..
LM for example has its code one magazine.. and yes.. I think I now get where muse it getting at...(I THINK).

for eg.. the assembly line for the Boeing P-8I shifted to full gear.. although that in itself is fairly insignificant..and its absense in the news will not mean the P-8I is dead. However, by bringing that up... and by adding the usual taglines on the aircraft's capabilities.. Boeing manages to provide assurance to its customers that all is progressing well, and at the same time.. gives potential customers a look at the shiny new product.

For the JF though.. the customer is the manufacturer. There has been no concrete effort by the PAF to get involved in any marketing as they seem to have left that to AVIC. In the end, there isnt much required of the PAF's ISPR section where the JF is concerned.
As a whole though.. the media section of our armed forces does need a revamp.

there is JV marketing company formed with AVIC (50;50) which is marketing the JFT. remember the JFT is in its 'infancy'. the PR development is a 'step-by-step' affair. the JFT has attended 3 air-shows and has attracted a lot of attention by various militaries. there are discussions taking place with these countries and for obvious reasons we are not privy to details. as far as PAF goes with domestic PR, well yes they can improve it, but there is only i domestic customer. all potential customers are foreign and that PR is definately better, otherwise such interest in the JFT wouldnt be forthcoming.

 

[SQ8]

Friends

A couple of items - first of all this stuff about selling the JFT to arbis and the like - forget about it, it's absolute day dreaming - Why? Because the gulf arbis procure equipment when private parties can agree to cut - and no country in the world procures equipment from countries that cannot offer them strategic diplomatic support in international bodies.


To have a chance at breaking through with as sophisticated a piece of equipment as the JFT, Pakistan must be a economic power, not a economic dwarf -- So please lets focus on real things we can do to promote the JFT

Why do people around the world listen to the BBC? Because the BBC is a master as disseminating information, not just prolifically but because they have gained a reputation for the truth or "real" quality of the information they present - now, that is what we should be aiming at - information is a strategic asset, even as the use of information is a strategic objective.

So what should be the quality of the information we should develop? First it must be truthful, no, not suggesting releasing secret information, rather release information that is truthful, useful and involves human experience, to develop EXCITEMENT, that raises EXPECTATIONS and lives up to them - that is itself a brand -- the JFT should be tied to human experiences, the struggle to develop it, the failures, the determination to continue to seek solution for Pakistan's security, the pioneers, the evolution, the destination, the men and women working to realize that destination.

None of this involves putting out secret information.

The arbis will stick to buying western stuff.. they prefer it .. for reasons best left unsaid.
the jf's breakthrough.. will have to target nations with mig-21 and f-5 stocks that need replacing.

there is JV marketing company formed with AVIC (50;50) which is marketing the JFT. remember the JFT is in its 'infancy'. the PR development is a 'step-by-step' affair. the JFT has attended 3 air-shows and has attracted a lot of attention by various militaries. there are discussions taking place with these countries and for obvious reasons we are not privy to details. as far as PAF goes with domestic PR, well yes they can improve it, but there is only i domestic customer. all potential customers are foreign and that PR is definately better, otherwise such interest in the JFT wouldnt be forthcoming.

There has to be greater openness about discussions with countries.
see.. potential customers would like to know who else is buying it.
perhaps somebody who has not shown interest before .. may do so once they hear that "so and so" has tested it, and shown interest.

 

[Jango]

JF is still in a development phase, so , it is not yet in the mature stage and a stage where it has all the goodies in it.

Once, that happens, i am sure the PR will go up and up, but now we are keeping a low profile just because it is not in it's final shape yet.

---------- Post added at 04:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------

JF is still in a development phase, so , it is not yet in the mature stage and a stage where it has all the goodies in it.

Once, that happens, i am sure the PR will go up and up, but now we are keeping a low profile just because it is not in it's final shape yet.