JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[Kompromat]

An US HMD with Chinese radar and avionics? Any reliable source for that?

French or Chinese not US.

 

[Kompromat]

Interesting isn't it?

Actually the chinese PL-8 was a ditto copy of Python 3 but later it was improved a little and named PL-9

Yea i know

But now PL-9 is a mature weapon system and has been tested many times.

All i wana see is a JHMS

 

[wangrong]

Yea i know

But now PL-9 is a mature weapon system and has been tested many times.

All i wana see is a JHMS

bangladesh PL9C

 

[sancho]

French or Chinese not US.

Yes, that's more realistic, but you said JHMCS and that's the name of the US HMD, that's why I asked.

 

[MastanKhan]

^^
Sir by having flash lights, what does it mean ?

Hi,

These lights are on during peaceful times----they tell other planes that there is a bogey around---during war times or missions these lights are turned off.



There is a big difference in mating 60 / 70 weapons technology as compared to the 21st century---it would be a MILLIONFOLD more difficult to do so---because it is has been designed as such. There are one too many hurdles and source codes involved---plus the political fallout.

Secondly---you cannot mate the american amraam without permission, to any thing else except for what it was designed for.

The U S has not given paf carte blanche---. Believing and thinking that we can integrate anything is like chasing a rainbow---after all that effort---you find out that either you are, too far away---or there was no pot of gold.

 

[wangrong]

JF17 use PL-5EII+SD-10A

 

[IceCold]

You answered it yourself. Yes, any missile can be integrated with any radar provided you have the source codes for the radar and the missile.

Fortunately you can get the radar source codes. But unfortunately you, or for that matter, no country other than US has source codes for AMRAAM missile.


Hence, AIM-120 can not be integrated with a chinese radar.

AIM-120 missiles are for F-16 and not JF-17.

Are you making any sense? absolutely no. First you raise objections over the quality of the Chinese radars by raising the issue that PAF isnt satisfied with Chinese avionics and hence they were looking for French and other posters have tried to correct you on that the reason was not because PAF WASNT SATISFIED with Chinese avionics but because they were more interested to maybe use a battle tested BVR missile on the JF-17 since it is going to form the back bone of PAF and its integration is only possible with a western radar as US will not give its source codes to Chinese. You have taken a complete 180 degree turn and have started talking about equipping AMRAAM to a chinese radar where as this wasnt the point of argument in the 1st place. So what exactly are you implying here and how is it related to the quality of Chinese avionics?

 

[IceCold]

I would agree with him, because if PAF had planed that from the beginning, why bother with 50 JF 17 with Chinese techs anyway? They could have made the deal with France long before and the first 150 JF 17 would get the French package. Also if PAF would believe the Chinese radar is comparable, why not simply add some western techs (like French EWS, or some weapons) to it and not buy a complete new package? That would have reduced the costs pretty much, because of higher numbers, but less techs and easier logistics.

Are you forgetting that long before Pakistan happened to be under Sanctions and so it was only logical to peruse something that was sanction prove but as soon as those sanctions were lifted PAF again began to look for alternatives and the reason according to my limited understanding of aviation field is that PAF wanted to have the best buck for its money and so the competition continued for the radar which is still on to this date for the next batch of JF-17.
The Chinese companies are putting everything to make sure they get the order for the next batch of the JF-17 and let me add that by that time we may even wont feel the need to equip JF-17 with AMRAAM as China is already working on its next generation BVR missile.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Are you making any sense? absolutely no. First you raise objections over the quality of the Chinese radars by raising the issue that PAF isnt satisfied with Chinese avionics and hence they were looking for French and other posters have tried to correct you on that the reason was not because PAF WASNT SATISFIED with Chinese avionics but because they were more interested to maybe use a battle tested BVR missile on the JF-17 since it is going to form the back bone of PAF and its integration is only possible with a western radar as US will not give its source codes to Chinese. You have taken a complete 180 degree turn and have started talking about equipping AMRAAM to a chinese radar where as this wasnt the point of argument in the 1st place. So what exactly are you implying here and how is it related to the quality of Chinese avionics?

I haven't taken any u turns.

I still believe the same. There are some other members who believed AMRAAM could be integrated with KLJ-7. I was clearing their doubts.

Chinese avionics are still very basic and nothing when compared to Russian, French, German, US, UK, Italian avionics. That is the reason PAF is changing them.

 

[Kompromat]

Yes, that's more realistic, but you said JHMCS and that's the name of the US HMD, that's why I asked.

JHMCS is a trade mark owned by Boeing ?

 

[jagjitnatt]

JHMCS is a trade mark owned by Boeing ?

Owned by Rockwell Collins and Elbit's US subsidiary Elbit Systems of America. Boeing just installs them onto the F-18.

 

[IceCold]

I haven't taken any u turns.

I still believe the same. There are some other members who believed AMRAAM could be integrated with KLJ-7. I was clearing their doubts.

Chinese avionics are still very basic and nothing when compared to Russian, French, German, US, UK, Italian avionics. That is the reason PAF is changing them.

Again you are making the same flawed assumption based on nothing substantial but your own perceived/prejudice mind. Let me say is again this is not the reason why PAF is changing them. Chinese have made tremendous progress in terms of avionics and in no way are less equivalent to their western counterparts.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Again you are making the same flawed assumption based on nothing substantial but your own perceived/prejudice mind. Let me say is again this is not the reason why PAF is changing them. Chinese have made tremendous progress in terms of avionics and in no way are less equivalent to their western counterparts.

If chinese avionics are good, why are they being replaced for over a billion dollars? Give me a believable reason.

PAF is sensible enough to spend the money at the right place. They wouldn't have spent that money on something they don't need.

Defense is a critical subject. You don't go about changing things just for fun, you gotta have a reason good enough to justify the change.
For a shoe string budget aircraft avionics upgrade is even more surprising, the avionics package has to be really bad in order to be changed even before the induction of the first squadron.

And its a good thing PAF is doing. Quality should always be the prime requirement.

 

[sancho]

Are you forgetting that long before Pakistan happened to be under Sanctions and so it was only logical to peruse something that was sanction prove but as soon as those sanctions were lifted PAF again began to look for alternatives...

Again this can't be the reason, because if PAF would fear sanctions, they would buy higher numbers of the sanction prove package, but PAF is doing the direct opposite with buying twice the numbers of JF with western parts. Of course France might be more reliable than others, but the most sanctionprove solution remains to be Chinese and all other western possibilities would only increase the risk during sanctions.

No IceCold, PAF is clearly looking to increase the quality of JF 17 by getting more customized JF 17s, even if they have to take a higher risk during sanction times and that clearly speaks against the quality of Chinese parts.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

If chinese avionics are good, why are they being replaced for over a billion dollars? Give me a believable reason.

So if Russian avionics are so superior then why did India rejected Russian avionic suites for Su-30 and ran to Isreal and Frenchies for "Superior" avionics?
Buddy specially indians live in a huge huge GLASS HOUSE.