JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[Dazzler]

Some tit bits,

Had a conversation with my contact and he says that HIGH MARK will certify the effectiveness of many new inductions as mentioned by a respected forum member few days ago here. He also said that the healthy competition between falcon and thunder pilots will be something worth watching as previous engagements went into thunder's favor. Both are eager to face each other. Cant wait to hear more on this from him.

Regards

 

[air marshal]

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Some tit bits,

Had a conversation with my contact and he says that HIGH MARK will certify the effectiveness of many new inductions as mentioned by a respected forum member few days ago here. He also said that the healthy competition between falcon and thunder pilots will be something worth watching as previous engagements went into thunder's favor. Both are eager to face each other. Cant wait to hear more on this from him.

Regards

i just hope we can get some good video footage and not have to rely on APP "snippets" for everything

 

[PAFAce]

He also said that the healthy competition betweenfalcon and thunder pilots will be something worth watchingas previous engagements went into thunder's favor. Both are eager to face each other.

I had expected the Green part, but not the Blue part. But, now that I think about it, it makes sense. All the pilots that have been transferred over to the JF-17 so far have been ex-F-16 pilots with many hundreds of flying hours (unless I am very mistaken). Hence, our current crop of JF-17 pilots should be, in theory, the cream of the crop and the absolute best the PAF has to offer. So I guess it's only natural they beat their former students/colleagues/partners.

Real competition will be when pilots on both platforms are all relatively equally seasoned, with similar flying hours and similar skill level. Then, yes, we'll find out which platform is King of the Jungle in the PAF.

But, definitely, as AZ said, keep sharing your tid-bits. They are very interesting.

 

[HORAS]

In my opinion, the main advantage for F-16 is the Radars, the JF-17 has a week point in its design, the plane nose is too small to contain strong radar, as a result, most of the candidate radar for the plane are limited in range "nearly 100km", the problem become more complicated when we notice that is is the wide of the nose which represent problem not the length, so it might need modification in the fuselage.

 

[PAFAce]

In my opinion, the main advantage for F-16 is the Radars, the JF-17 has a week point in its design, the plane nose is too small to contain strong radar, as a result, most of the candidate radar for the plane are limited in range "nearly 100km"

This problem could be overcome with an AESA, as it required no room to move, don't you think? Pakistan is currently evaluating European, and possibly Chinese, radars for later block JF-17s. Surely, there would be no point of negotiating for a more powerful radar if the range was naturally limited to 100km.

Also, modern air warfare is network centric, so the JF-17 will rarely be expected to fly into enemy territory alone and blind. We'll have AEWs and UAVs for initial ISR, AWACs for realtime ISR and, possibly, multiple formations of fighters to ensure we've got the skies covered for long distances.

Of course, since the design is a massive upgrade of the MiG-21, your argument about the small nose stands.

 

[Dazzler]

Horas,

brother, just go through previous pages and you will know the radar (klj-7) is better than APG 68 V2 series in terms of range, functions and anti jamming etc. Also it can track more than two targets simultaneously. Nose is as big as Mirage 2000's nose so no issues there.

Regards

 

[HORAS]

This problem could be overcome with an AESA, as it required no room to move, don't you think? Pakistan is currently evaluating European, and possibly Chinese, radars for later block JF-17s. Surely, there would be no point of negotiating for a more powerful radar if the range was naturally limited to 100km.

Also, modern air warfare is network centric, so the JF-17 will rarely be expected to fly into enemy territory alone and blind. We'll have AEWs and UAVs for initial ISR, AWACs for realtime ISR and, possibly, multiple formations of fighters to ensure we've got the skies covered for long distances.

Of course, since the design is a massive upgrade of the MiG-21, your argument about the small nose stands.

Dear brother,

Thank you very much for your intrest about my comment, about ASEA radar, I read about candadte ASEA radar for the Thunder, is also with limited range 100 to 105km.

The problem with the reader range is not only the enemy detection, as you said, in modern air warfare the pilot can get plenty of information about the enemy location from several sources. But in the end to be effective you have to lock on the enemy plane and lunch your missiles. The 100 km radar will not allow you to fully use the advantage of the thunder, you can carry missiles with range longer than 100km , yet you can't use it.

Best regards

 

[HORAS]

Horas,

brother, just go through previous pages and you will know the radar (klj-7) is better than APG 68 V2 series in terms of range, functions and anti jamming etc. Also it can track more than two targets simultaneously. Nose is as big as Mirage 2000's nose so no issues there.

Regards

Dear brother,

Can you kindly provide my with the nose aspects? O will be thankful.

Best regards

 

[TaimiKhan]

Dear brother,

Can you kindly provide my with the nose aspects? O will be thankful.

Best regards

The initial J-17 prototypes nose cone was of about 600mm, meaning 60cm, and in the 4th prototype the nose was enlarged to 640mm.

If you check the pictures of older prototypes and the newer version you can easily spot the difference between the diameter size.

And the KLJ-7 radar specifications were about 4-5 years ago, when initially it was said to be for JF-17. 4-5 years are more then enough to increase its specifications and effectiveness.

My rough idea or guess by looking at the nose cone and Chinese radar development, JF-17s radar must be with a look up range of something like 120KM+, but the RCS detection capability would be the real thing to be seen. Is it 5m2, 3m2 or 1m2 target RCS.

Dear brother,

Thank you very much for your intrest about my comment, about ASEA radar, I read about candadte ASEA radar for the Thunder, is also with limited range 100 to 105km.

The problem with the reader range is not only the enemy detection, as you said, in modern air warfare the pilot can get plenty of information about the enemy location from several sources. But in the end to be effective you have to lock on the enemy plane and lunch your missiles. The 100 km radar will not allow you to fully use the advantage of the thunder, you can carry missiles with range longer than 100km , yet you can't use it.

Best regards

And AIM-120 & SD-10 both have data linking systems, thus the launching aircraft does not even has to on its radar or make a lock, the AEW&C or AWAC can do that job and guide the missile to its target.

 

[HORAS]

The initial J-17 prototypes nose cone was of about 600mm, meaning 60cm, and in the 4th prototype the nose was enlarged to 640mm.

If you check the pictures of older prototypes and the newer version you can easily spot the difference between the diameter size.

And the KLJ-7 radar specifications were about 4-5 years ago, when initially it was said to be for JF-17. 4-5 years are more then enough to increase its specifications and effectiveness.

My rough idea or guess by looking at the nose cone and Chinese radar development, JF-17s radar must be with a look up range of something like 120KM+, but the RCS detection capability would be the real thing to be seen. Is it 5m2, 3m2 or 1m2 target RCS.




And AIM-120 & SD-10 both have data linking systems, thus the launching aircraft does not even has to on its radar or make a lock, the AEW&C or AWAC can do that job and guide the missile to its target.

Thanks, the important of radar from my point of viwe is exactly because that you mentioned in the last. for example, both Egypt and Israel has AWACS. Those planes will be highly priority to shot down form both sides, so most probably the fighter plans will face some situation without that help, and who's detect and lush first will win.

Best regards

 

[ptldM3]

My rough idea or guess by looking at the nose cone and Chinese radar development, JF-17s radar must be with a look up range of something like 120KM+, but the RCS detection capability would be the real thing to be seen. Is it 5m2, 3m2 or 1m2 target RCS.

.

Since the JF-17 uses Russian engines do you think it's possible it could use Russian radar? I think the zhuk-ae AESA would be a nice choice if India approved the sale (not likely), the zhuk has been quoted to have ranges from 160-200km.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Thanks, the important of radar from my point of viwe is exactly because that you mentioned in the last. for example, both Egypt and Israel has AWACS. Those planes will be highly priority to shot down form both sides, so most probably the fighter plans will face some situation without that help, and who's detect and lush first will win.

Best regards

Yes, but AWACS are not that easy to be destroyed. They roam deep inside the territory, have fighter aircraft escort or planes are on stand by to help them, they have ECMs. And as per my own analysis & general rule, if they are inside or behind a good long range SAM system, then for any aircraft to reach the AWAC would be very tough rather near to impossible.

But yeah a Stealth fighter can do the job very easily.

 

[subanday]

Since the JF-17 uses Russian engines do you think it's possible it could use Russian radar? I think the zhuk-ae AESA would be a nice choice if India approved the sale (not likely), the zhuk has been quoted to have ranges from 160-200km.

Not likely sums up the option of Zhuk....

 

[fhassan]

if India approved the sale

So, Russia needs India to "approve" it's decisions?