JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[shanixee]

PAF F-16 A did have a lock on IAF SU-30 MKI when it tried to enter our airspace. I know the pilot who had this honor. MKI is good but surely has a HUGE RCS and got picked on F-16 from more than 140 kms away. There is a reason why they ran away. I know this will break bollywood fantasies but truth hurts !

can you plz tell more abt it......

regards

 

[hataf]

PAF F-16 A did have a lock on IAF SU-30 MKI when it tried to enter our airspace. I know the pilot who had this honor. MKI is good but surely has a HUGE RCS and got picked on F-16 from more than 140 kms away. There is a reason why they ran away. I know this will break bollywood fantasies but truth hurts !

can you plz tell more abt it......

regards

and count me in too

 

[notorious_eagle]

PAF F-16 A did have a lock on IAF SU-30 MKI when it tried to enter our airspace. I know the pilot who had this honor. MKI is good but surely has a HUGE RCS and got picked on F-16 from more than 140 kms away. There is a reason why they ran away. I know this will break bollywood fantasies but truth hurts !

Yes i wil back nabil's statement here, i never had the honour to meet the pilot but met some of his close associates who told me the story. Our 3D Ground Radars had tracked the incoming Indian Aircrafts long before, the F16 locked on the SU30MKI and Mirage III's attacked a formation of Mirage 2000's and performed aggressive manoeuvres forcing them to abort their mission. The IAF aircrafts were on snooping mission, testing our response time and trying to pick up our SAMS location. PAF responded in the correct manner by intercepting them with their aircrafts and not giving up the positions of our Ground Radars and SAMS. After this incident, PAF started patrolling the borders in aggressive mode and IAF didn't dare cross the border. Not long before the Israelis destroyed a Syrian Nuclear Reactor without any resistance, maybe the Indians wanted to emulate them .

As far as the Red Flag is concerned, the SU30MKI did use their EW suites. You can see in the lecture that the Colonel is clearly stating that the pilot of SU30MKI were jamming the missiles of the F16's, after this the F16's switched to guns and nailed the MKI's.

P.S. Nabil, i dont think its best we go into further details regarding this incident. Best to keep the Indians guessing regarding our capabilities , let them think that they can roll over PAF in one strike with their MIGHTY SU30MKI.

 

[SBD-3]

Yes i wil back nabil's statement here, i never had the honour to meet the pilot but met some of his close associates who told me the story. Our 3D Ground Radars had tracked the incoming Indian Aircrafts long before, the F16 locked on the SU30MKI and Mirage III's attacked a formation of Mirage 2000's and performed aggressive manoeuvres forcing them to abort their mission. The IAF aircrafts were on snooping mission, testing our response time and trying to pick up our SAMS location. PAF responded in the correct manner by intercepting them with their aircrafts and not giving up the positions of our Ground Radars and SAMS. After this incident, PAF started patrolling the borders in aggressive mode and IAF didn't dare cross the border. Not long before the Israelis destroyed a Syrian Nuclear Reactor without any resistance, maybe the Indians wanted to emulate them .

As far as the Red Flag is concerned, the SU30MKI did use their EW suites. You can see in the lecture that the Colonel is clearly stating that the pilot of SU30MKI were jamming the missiles of the F16's, after this the F16's switched to guns and nailed the MKI's.

P.S. Nabil, i dont think its best we go into further details regarding this incident. Best to keep the Indians guessing regarding our capabilities , let them think that they can roll over PAF in one strike with their MIGHTY SU30MKI.

by telling this....you've invited some serious waves of Indian posts after mine ....so here comes the 1st one.....

 

[Dazzler]

Yes i wil back nabil's statement here, i never had the honour to meet the pilot but met some of his close associates who told me the story. Our 3D Ground Radars had tracked the incoming Indian Aircrafts long before, the F16 locked on the SU30MKI and Mirage III's attacked a formation of Mirage 2000's and performed aggressive manoeuvres forcing them to abort their mission. The IAF aircrafts were on snooping mission, testing our response time and trying to pick up our SAMS location. PAF responded in the correct manner by intercepting them with their aircrafts and not giving up the positions of our Ground Radars and SAMS. After this incident, PAF started patrolling the borders in aggressive mode and IAF didn't dare cross the border. Not long before the Israelis destroyed a Syrian Nuclear Reactor without any resistance, maybe the Indians wanted to emulate them .

As far as the Red Flag is concerned, the SU30MKI did use their EW suites. You can see in the lecture that the Colonel is clearly stating that the pilot of SU30MKI were jamming the missiles of the F16's, after this the F16's switched to guns and nailed the MKI's.

P.S. Nabil, i dont think its best we go into further details regarding this incident. Best to keep the Indians guessing regarding our capabilities , let them think that they can roll over PAF in one strike with their MIGHTY SU30MKI.

Totally agreed bro, if i said anything further on this topic, you will not see me posting on any internet forum.

 

[Dazzler]

double post

 

[ptldM3]

One of the worst maneuvers to perform against an adversary in a nose to nose engagement is a belly up turn (belly perpendicular to adversary radar) and while the widely spaced engines give the MKI an aerodynamic edge it makes it more visible to ground radar. These are some design trade offs and key difference between western and Russian design philosophy. The Russians believe aerodynamic efficiency is worth the trade off while we beleive closely spaced engines present a smaller target to ground radar and allow our planes to take more battle damage while remaining airworthy.

A few things, the F-15 will never go out on a mission in a clean configuration, it will always carry some ordanance, not to mention external fuel tanks, so whatever rcs the F-15 had (from the belly) in a clean configuration would mean nothing once a combat load is added. BTW the F-14 has been in 12 wars or skirmishes and only 4 were lost to ground fire, it should be noted that its 'belly' is very similar to the Sukhoi, infact it appears to be even wider. Also the SU-27 has been involved in 6 wars or skirmishes and only 2 were lost to ground fire.

And widely spaced engines actually give an aircraft better battle feild survivability not worse, the problem with engines in close proximity is that one hit will likely destroy two engines. This is why the A-10 has its engines so widely spaced.

Recall the Israeli F-15 that was able to RTB safely with the entire right wing missing after a collision - an MKI in contrast will be unflyable in the same condition.

You do not know that, nor are you qualified to come to that conclusion What saved the F-15 was its speed, pilot skills, and lift from the intakes which the SU-30 would also enjoy, infact the F-15 landed at twice its regular speed; anything less and it would go into a spin. After the F-15 incident happened McDonnell Douglas concluded that the F-15 was able to maintain control because of its speed, they described the F-15 as that of a "rocket" because the pilot maintained a high airspeed, so there was nothing special about the F-15 other then the fact that it maintained a high airspeed and that its intakes provided lift.

You have also overlooked two hudge advantages of the SU-30 if it was in the same situation; firstly, because of the SU-30's widely spaced engines the pilot can independently regulate the throttles on either engine which would compensate or atleast off set any counter forces created by an unstable aircraft. Secondly, the SU-30 enjoys TVC coupled with widely spaced engines which would also be helpeful if its wing was ever lost because its engines can direct thrust in a parallel maner, or in other words, one nozzle is directed up while the other is directed down. Again this will help to compensate any counter forces created by a missing wing.

While many here don't look beyond engine thrust, experts factor engine footprint - length and diameter. Russian engines especially the ones with TVC nozzles are longer and wider. The F-414 engine is 154/35 inches while the MKI's AL-31 (excluding nozzle) is close to 200/50 inches. The MKI presents a much larger target for all the reasons I mentioned above and more.

Length and width of an engine mater little when they are internal. If size of an engine was so crucial then Pratt & Whitney as well as Lockheed Martin made a big blunder with the F-22's F-119 engines coming in at 203 inches and If the F-22 ever receives the F-35's F-135 engines which measure in at 220/51 then the F-22 is in big trouble, atleast according to you. Size matters depending on how large the difference is but what is more important is how the engines are concealed or in other words how they dissipate an IR signature, for instance the Rafale's engines (not exhaust plum) give off less IR then the Typhoons engines.


Also why on earth are you comparing the F-414 engine which is a smaller class engine found in the F-18 to the AL-31 which is a heavy class engine found in the SU-30? I though you were talking about the F-15.

The F-15 uses the F-100 engines so it would not be fair of me to compare the F-15 and its F-100 engines to, for example, the Rafales M-88s and then declare that the SU-30 has the smaller 'footprint' based on the M-88's figures, now would it?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Respected Death By Chocolate, ptldM3 & Indian Members:

This thread is about JF-17 only, so keep the discussion to JF-17, for MKIs, F-15s, F-22s, F-16s, plzzzz open a new thread and discuss the points there.

Do not derail this thread.

Anymore off topic post, they will get deleted.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

 

[MAB]

Now all we need is a video of the thunders performing awesome maneuvers in the air.

 

[soul hacker]

mashallah looking beautiful:

 

[farhan_9909]

MASHALLAH Jf-17 looking

bt why it is nt armed with any missile?

 

[Dazzler]

Why have they sent the C-130 with JFTs? Can anyone answer this? I know it went as a support measure but is there anything else? Anyone guess?

 

[Dazzler]

Despite support, it also contains weapons and sensors of JFT

 

[Super Falcon]

Looking good pakistan airforce should have painted it in better clours desert camo or a black camo would be ideal for this baby anyway our dear indian friends were happy when they heared that JF 17 would not perfom in Fambourgh now the baby arrived in the show by the way is this show is in france or germany