JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 1]

[Quwa]

Personally, i believe the jf-17 is 10 years too late. Theres no doubting we would have benefitted greatly from this project in terms of experience but i think unless there isnt sufficient upgrades on every 50 jf-17 batch, then they are always go to be second to western fighters in the 4th generation bracket.

Depends...PAF hasn't done much to reveal the performance of JF-17, except perhaps with the "75% as capable as F-16A" thing that applied to PT-1 & 3. As of now the JF-17 appears to be capable of taking some extensive upgrades, the difference with the West will be more with reliability than performance. The next variant could make extensive use of composites, have a more embedded hardpoint layout, use RAM coating on the canopy, further improvements in DSI, etc. Overall I don't see much of an issue with JF-17...its cost:performance ratio is among the highest.

 

[gpit]

China's NRIET outlines fighter radar improvements

Reuben F Johnson JDW Correspondent - Beijing

Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology (NRIET) has revealed details of its airborne fighter radar programmes at CIDEX 2008 in Beijing.

Representatives of NRIET at the Chinese defence electronics exhibition told Jane's in early April that the KLJ-7 radar installed in the FC-1/JF-17 - the fighter aircraft developed jointly with Pakistan - has undergone improvements from its original configuration. The system can now "manage up to 40 targets, track up to 10 in track-while-scan [TWS] mode and engage two targets simultaneously", they said.

NRIET is the major supplier of fighter radar systems to Chengdu Aerospace Corporation, which produces the FC-1/JF-17 and J-10 fighter aircraft.

Like other Chinese companies, NRIET has made progress in upgrading the performance of its systems and has benefited from the advances that China's industries have made in designing more robust and state-of-the-art components. NRIET said that work had started on developing an AESA fighter radar, but that details of this programme were classified.

Through joint development and co-operation with the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) on the JF-17 variant of the FC-1 and from bilateral discussions with other foreign defence companies, NRIET is believed to have gained access to a number of overseas radar systems that have been used for testing and development of the KLJ series.

Concerns were raised in some quarters in March when it was confirmed that French officials were in talks with Pakistan about the sale of radar systems for use in the JF-17 - the worry being that Beijing would also gain access to the technology.

Officials from Russia's Phazotron radar design centre previously told Jane's that NRIET had purchased two Zemchug radars that it uses for "A/B comparisons of their radar's performance against our design".

However, they hastened to add that China's radars "are not copies of our designs. It is not correct to call anything that the Chinese build a copy because they use their own components [and] their own electronic circuit boards. Some of their designs may appear to be analogues of someone else's design but they are not copies".

NRIET has also been known as Research Institute No 14 or Nanjing Radar Plant 720 and is the largest of the China Electronic Technology Corporation (CETC) consortium's research institutes. CETC is the largest military products industrial group in China.

This is the display about KLJ-7 at CIDEX 2008.

 

[JEFF]

May I know How many test flights being completed by JF-17? alongwith this How many prototypes of JF-17 including PV and LSP are there in existance?

Thank You.

 

[Imran Khan]

i read in news 1200 test flights and 10 prototypes.may be wrong or right .

 

[fatman17]

JF-17 has gone beyond the prototype stage - it is in SRP (slow rate production)

 

[BATMAN]

Personally, i believe the jf-17 is 10 years too late. Theres no doubting we would have benefitted greatly from this project in terms of experience but i think unless there isnt sufficient upgrades on every 50 jf-17 batch, then they are always go to be second to western fighters in the 4th generation bracket.

Airframe of thunder employ the best of technologies:
It has better LEX design than F-18 acheiving best A.o.A, DSI like F-35 adding a stealthy dimension and extra agilty, Fuselage and HUD like Grippen, wings like F-16, and horizontal tail fins like F-22.
Certainly much more potent design than any other present day fighter.
An AESA radar with BVR shooting ability and IR absorbant paint will put it in the class of 5th generation fighters.
We can even hope for western engine with supercruse characterisitc.

 

[araz]

Airframe of thunder employ the best of technologies:
It has better LEX design than F-18 acheiving best A.o.A, DSI like F-35 adding a stealthy dimension and extra agilty, Fuselage and HUD like Grippen, wings like F-16, and horizontal tail fins like F-22.
Certainly much more potent design than any other present day fighter.
An AESA radar with BVR shooting ability and IR absorbant paint will put it in the class of 5th generation fighters.
We can even hope for western engine with supercruse characterisitc.

A question Iam forced to ask is what changes do you expect to see incorporated in the actual plane once it rolls out and what changes do you expect in the future. For instance, ACM has mentioned that efforts are underway to increase hardpoints to 9. is that a plausable thing which can be achieved before the first plane rolls out or not. secondly with the WS13(??) about to be certified for use, when arewe going to see it in our planes.
Regards
Araz

 

[jani53]

why jf-17 is not made of composit material instead alluminium alloy this will make the fighter lighter and will increase its payload capacity.
Has china itself decided to induct jf-17 in their air power ?
Will it be matchable to fighters like mig-29 ,miraj-2000 or su-30?

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

BATMAN,

Incorporating a SuperCruise able Engine in JF-17 in existing Airframe is not possible.

 

[BATMAN]

BATMAN,

Incorporating a SuperCruise able Engine in JF-17 in existing Airframe is not possible.

Thanks for the clarification.

Sorry folks, no super cruise at the moment we have to wait till the next frame.

 

[BATMAN]

A question Iam forced to ask is what changes do you expect to see incorporated in the actual plane once it rolls out and what changes do you expect in the future. For instance, ACM has mentioned that efforts are underway to increase hardpoints to 9. is that a plausable thing which can be achieved before the first plane rolls out or not. secondly with the WS13(??) about to be certified for use, when arewe going to see it in our planes.
Regards
Araz

I don’t know what exactly are they planning to change in the air frame, but IMO what remains to be improved quick is not with the frame.
Those as we know are engine, radar and BVR missiles and I definitely expect that the efforts are being made and next success story is in the making.
WS-13 has been certified already. I expect its integration plans to be on the tables, as well. I expect WS-13 powered thunders on march past in 2010.
I expect that change of engine may result in change of shape near to the end of fuselage.
I also expect JF-17 to be developing in to a stealthier shape. I envisage future shape of thunder to be something like in the direction of F-35.

As I know, 10 thunders had been rolled out already. I think you meant first thunder from Kamra! I believe Kamra is all set to do wonders with the ferocious bird. Give some time to the time record holders of fighter development on planet earth.

 

[BATMAN]

why jf-17 is not made of composit material instead alluminium alloy this will make the fighter lighter and will increase its payload capacity.

Well yes, if we compare the mass but to have same or more strength as of a metal alloy, composite thicknes increase and when we talk about small fighter, considering that maximum composites implemented constitute fraction of air frame. I wonder how many kilos can we shed in such application.
Composites can yield substantial weight reduction only in commercial airliners or perhaps large bombers.
The idea of composite is to have more weather resistant product, producing large casted parts, avoiding fabrication design and works, increasing rate of production of the eventual product and contributing towards reductions in production costs.
It will not be a surprise if we see composite a big hit in countries like Europe and Israel but countries like China and Pakistan have to work out their priorities and wait until the technology matures.

Has china itself decided to induct jf-17 in their air power ?

This is a pointless question, leads to nothing. It is on record that China had announced long before the plans to buy certain numbers of Thunders but at the moment JF-17 is not available to any country. Any way making way to PLAAF is not the benchmark for fighter jets. At the moment lots of other options are available to China. Let me priorities the possible Chinese options: (1) J-10 (2) J10x (3) J11 (4) H52 (5) JF-17. Clearly it is so because their hands are full with the projects initiated before JF-17 and of much more importance to their defence doctrine.

Will it be matchable to fighters like mig-29 ,miraj-2000 or su-30?

JF-17 is far better than early F-16 and with those F-16 PAF had strike down many 'SU'. Such facts should clear all doubts.

 

[PakForce Unlimited]

Looks like the storyline\development of JF-17.

It would be nice if members from China (or those who speak chinese) could translate or summarize the videos so we all can understand the content.

zO-OgPIp6b4[/media] - Test and Evaluation: JF-17 Thunder - Part 1

m97XsEC6_F0[/media] - Test and Evaluation: JF-17 Thunder - Part 2

b4JYQTep3q8[/media] - Test and Evaluation: JF-17 Thunder - Part 3

sHur9KNvElE[/media] - Test and Evaluation: JF-17 Thunder - Part 4​

(If these videos have been posted earlier, please delete)

 

[Myth_buster_1]

By: Feng
Military Analyst

China Air and Naval Power: May 2008

So, I've been pretty busy in the past week with visitors + going away for a retreat. I haven't had much time to go through the PLA news, so this is not going to be the most informative update I've ever had.

I've read some concerns over the status of CAC after the recent earthquake. From what I read, it seems like CAC is back in full operation. In fact, this avic1 article does a good job talking about CAC.


Please Defence.pk Chinese members, translate this news in english. Here is another article regarding CAC and earthquake

本报讯（通讯员杨兴根 梅晶洪）四川汶川发生大地震后，一航成飞按照中国一航党组的要求和部署，全面启动和实施灾后生产自救工作。

5 月14日，是汶川大地震后的第三天，也是一航成飞逐渐恢复灾后生产的第一天。公司领导王广亚、王小平率技术改造部门负责人到各个生产单位了解受损情况，对受损设备情况进行登记，对整改工作提出了具体要求。为配合政府和部队向地震灾区运送物资，一航成飞机场也向部队开放，确保部队运输物资的飞机能安全起飞、着陆，并做好地面技术服务保障工作。

地震发生后，试飞站职工没有休息一天，全部到岗。他们对飞机、设备、设施进行全面细致地检查，各项工作步入正常轨道。到目前为止，试飞站已组织完成某项飞机缝制任务6900 米和各种机型备件零件接收任务，完成“枭龙”飞机的系统更改工作和5架歼七G型飞机发动机换装的库内工作，并达到待飞状态。检验检测部特种检验室技术组职工在办公地点墙面开裂的情况下，仍加紧编制某项目研制工艺文件；渗透站职工急生产所急，从5月15日开始加班对来自结构件厂、数控厂、钣金厂共800件零件进行检测。钣金厂及时启动应急机制，及时监测热处理工段硝盐槽工作情况，维修人员迅速检修厂房内机床、吊车等设备状况，通过自查清理，排除了重大安全隐患发生的可能。

为尽快恢复生产，最大程度减少灾害损失，数控厂全面启动抗灾自救工作，提出“万众一心，抗灾自救，群策群力，复产减损”的工作口号，要求干部职工齐心协力、科学有序开展灾后自救工作。自5 月14日正式上班后，数控厂各部门严格按照制定的计划进行工作，常规维修组抓紧时间对厂房、吊车、测量机、立体刀具库和工装库等基础设施、辅助设备进行全面检查，并以最快的速度恢复了吊车的使用，为数控机床的及时复工创造了条件。硬件维修组针对数控机床状态不明的情况，及时制定了一套数控设备状态检查方案，成立了专题小组对数控设备外观损坏情况、基础固定的松动与否、零件受损状况、设备电缆连接、悬挂元器件稳固、设备几何精度等进行了全方面测试。到5月 16日，专业厂20多台数控设备正式开始运行生产。信息技术部在恢复生产后，果断向全体职工发出了“全力维护中心运行，确保生产自救”的行动口号，组织各精兵强将开展抢修数据中心主机房系统的恢复工作，经过两小时的紧急抢修，企业数据中心所有主机系统和网络交换设备全面应急启动成功，企业应用系统全面恢复运行。


The gist is that everyone was back to work and everything was back to normal by the 16th of May. The interesting part is the section on the project currently being worked on. It talks about the flight testing station working non stop to a new aircraft project of flying to 6900 m. It talks about completing the modification work on JF-17 (although I'm not sure what this is referring to). I also talks about changing the engine of 5 J-7G.

And, I've read a renewed debate on whether or not China will place any orders for JF-17 in the future. I basically look at China's need for something like JF-17 in 3 areas.
1) As a cheap fighter that could be useful in a war of attrition.
2) As a ground strike fighter
3) As a trainer
Basically, a lot of these options have only become possible with the slowness of the L-15 project. Generally speaking, CAC is a much better run company than HAIG. For a project that started with so much potential, HAIG's incompetence has allowed CAC to basically pitch JF-17 in the area that was originally reserved for L-15. Heck, even the much inferior JL-9 has attracted orders from PLAAF. From that stand point, CAC seems to be more in tune with PLAAF requirements than other AVIC1 firms.
While, CAC survived the earthquake, Dongfang had a much tougher go at it.
_______________

So from this blog, it seems that the JF-17 facility is fine, and everything is normal.

 

[gpit]

Looks like the storyline\development of JF-17.

It would be nice if members from China (or those who speak chinese) could translate or summarize the videos so we all can understand the content.

zO-OgPIp6b4[/media] - Test and Evaluation: JF-17 Thunder - Part 1

m97XsEC6_F0[/media] - Test and Evaluation: JF-17 Thunder - Part 2

b4JYQTep3q8[/media] - Test and Evaluation: JF-17 Thunder - Part 3

sHur9KNvElE[/media] - Test and Evaluation: JF-17 Thunder - Part 4​

(If these videos have been posted earlier, please delete)

Nice video clips!

It basically tells the story how Pakistan and China came together to develop JF-17. This is very much known to all.

Clip 3 and 4 give some people's opinions. In short:

1st generation: around sonic speed. Mig-15
2nd generation: 2-3 time of sound speed. J-7, Mig-21
3rd generation: no more speed because dog fighting is normally subsonic; rather it emphasizes low or mid altitude aero-dynamics. F-16, Mig-29, Su-27
4th generation: stealthy plus aero-dynamics. F-22

If compared technically item by item, JF-17 can not completely match existing standard 3rd generation in every aspect. In general, it can be called quasi-3rd generation. It achieves combined capability of 3rd generation, providing capability to compete in modern air war fair with a superior quality/price ratio. JF-17 is comparable with F-16A/B. It is not meant for offensive deep penetration strike. It is meant for low altitude strike...