JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 1]

[fatman17]

Pakistani-French negotiations proceed on JF-17 enhancement
Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent - Islamabad

A French Ministry of Defence (MoD) official has confirmed that France is in talks with Pakistan to supply missiles and radars for the JF-17 fighter aircraft.

Bruno Berthet, assistant director for international development at the French MoD, said on 26 February that a deal on missiles and radars for the JF-17 has not yet been reached. However, he added that "the talks are on the right track and there are diplomatic comings and goings between the two countries".

France has been in talks with Pakistan about acquiring MBDA MICA air-to-air missiles and Thales RC 400 multimission radars, as Jane's first revealed in September 2007, despite concerns over the risks of China gaining access to the technology.

Pakistan plans to acquire up to 250 JF-17s - which it is developing jointly with China - to replace ageing French Dassault Mirage III and Mirage 5 aircraft, as well as older Chinese F-7 fighters.

Berthet said it was too early to tell when a memorandum of understanding might be signed with Pakistan.

One Western defence expert in Islamabad told Jane's that French missiles and radars could "substantially improve the JF-17's future as a formidable fighter aircraft".

 

[blain2]

Yes MICA can be employed for both WVR and BVR engagments, but this is not usual practice.
i would like to know y? can any one please explain.

Usually separate missiles are used for WVR and BVR engagments even if any missile can serve both
the purposes, a friend of mine in PAF told me it is so firstly due to cost and secondly
bcoz a BVR-AAM is alomst twice as heavier as compared to a WVR-AAM, so in order to utilize
all the available hardpoints in a fighter jet without exceeding the maximum weapon payload limit of a fighter jet.
Is this true?

The combination of WVR and BVR missiles on the aircraft happens because the current generation of missiles are either dedicated for long distance engagements or for close-in combat. There are issues with size, fuel, maneuverability etc. etc. which have led to aircraft being loaded up with a mix of missiles.

The MICA happens to be one of the newer generation of AAMs which can do both. I suspect that although it can be used in both BVR and WVR engagements, some of the newer WVRAAMs like AIM-9x, Python-5, IRIS-T maybe more manueverable in the high off-boresight engagements than the MICA. But even then, the MICA would essentially allow an aircraft like the JF-17 to be equipped with at least 6 (if wiring is to all the hardpoints) AAMs for BVR and WVR engagements which anyway you look at it is an amazing capability.

 

[khanz]

anyone know how many jf-17s have been inducted so far ?

 

[blain2]

anyone know how many jf-17s have been inducted so far ?

Inducted is a misleading term in my opinion. I believe close to 8 are in Pakistan but for evaluation and testing. Induction would start as an example with No 25 sqn converting to the type.

Hope this helps.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

The 8 JF-17 we receive this year will be used for testing radar and weapons. Perhaps the PAF may also have some training done to get a feel for the maneuverability of the aircraft for combat tactics.

Basically, this is the orientation year to get used to the aircraft as much as you can. PAF has always had a history of quickly mastering their aircraft like F-86, F-16, etc.

 

[khanz]

Inducted is a misleading term in my opinion. I believe close to 8 are in Pakistan but for evaluation and testing. Induction would start as an example with No 25 sqn converting to the type.

Hope this helps.

ok thx alot so were still testing and evaluating and none are actually in service with paf yet ? what about those first two flying on pakistan day ?
I want to see jf-17 in action I would love to see one take out baitullah mehsud

 

[BATMAN]

This JF-17 looks different. It looks more sharp due to flat top.

Mr. Blain, Is it a special version?

 

[echo 1]

I know this is an air force thread but what about the navy the older Mirage aircraft will need to be replaced so does anyone have any news on that? Or the two seater JF-17 which has been decided on?

here is the website just scrol down.
International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > Chinese Dimensions of the 2007 Dubai Airshow

 

[fatman17]

I know this is an air force thread but what about the navy the older Mirage aircraft will need to be replaced so does anyone have any news on that? Or the two seater JF-17 which has been decided on?

here is the website just scrol down.
International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > Chinese Dimensions of the 2007 Dubai Airshow

echo1 u get rep power for this one. very informative.

 

[Muradk]

ok thx alot so were still testing and evaluating and none are actually in service with paf yet ? what about those first two flying on pakistan day ?
I want to see jf-17 in action I would love to see one take out baitullah mehsud

Khanz: Its not like a car factory, the car comes out sell it and start driving it.
T&E will keep on going . The first 2 were a show piece. It was merely an introduction/Demo. The blue color JF-17 is in Kamra now ( just a Info ) .
And Baitullah can be taken out by any one of our planes as long we know where he is, People like him don't stay or sleep under the same roof twice mobility is the way they survive.
One more thing I read in one of the threads that what all is happening in Pakistan is because of Musharaf and he should have said no to the US after 9/11.
It is very easy to sit in our houses and blame others put your self in his place, His decision was not taken buy him alone and what he did or is doing is for Pakistan. He comes from a breed of men WHO ARE THE FEW THE PROUD SSG. I would never doubt his loyalty towards Pakistan.

 

[fatman17]

ok thx alot so were still testing and evaluating and none are actually in service with paf yet ? what about those first two flying on pakistan day ?
I want to see jf-17 in action I would love to see one take out baitullah mehsud

i have posted the schedule of induction of the JF-17 in the PAF but we r such demanding people (we want it now) what we cant get. any way.

8 in 2008 for Test & Evaluation only.
15 in 2009 and if all goes well the No.25 sqdn will be the 1st operational sqdn to operate the JF-17s.
25 in 2010 - full rate production per year (25)

all 150 JF-17s under the 1st agreement will be inducted by early 2014. meanwhile the planned upgrades (avionics and weapons) would have started on the earlier model JF-17s.

meanwhile look for A-5s, F-7s and Mirage (III/Vs) to be de-commissioned proportionately during this period.

look for the F-16 fleet to reach 126 a/c (6-sqdns+ 1-OCU) as PAF gets more F-16 block 40s from the USAF fleet.

look for PAF to operate with roughly 350-400 front-line a/c (20-22 sqdns) comprising F-16s, JF-17s, F-20s and the Rose Mirages.

 

[araz]

i have posted the schedule of induction of the JF-17 in the PAF but we r such demanding people (we want it now) what we cant get. any way.

8 in 2008 for Test & Evaluation only.
15 in 2009 and if all goes well the No.25 sqdn will be the 1st operational sqdn to operate the JF-17s.
25 in 2010 - full rate production per year (25)

all 150 JF-17s under the 1st agreement will be inducted by early 2014. meanwhile the planned upgrades (avionics and weapons) would have started on the earlier model JF-17s.

meanwhile look for A-5s, F-7s and Mirage (III/Vs) to be de-commissioned proportionately during this period.

look for the F-16 fleet to reach 126 a/c (6-sqdns+ 1-OCU) as PAF gets more F-16 block 40s from the USAF fleet.

look for PAF to operate with roughly 350-400 front-line a/c (20-22 sqdns) comprising F-16s, JF-17s, F-20s and the Rose Mirages.

Fatman17.
Just a question from a novice enthusiast. Why persevere with Rose Mirages when quite a few of them have crashed recently? Secondly till when are we looking to deploy Mirages and what will replace them?
Thanks in advance
Araz

 

[fatman17]

Fatman17.
Just a question from a novice enthusiast. Why persevere with Rose Mirages when quite a few of them have crashed recently? Secondly till when are we looking to deploy Mirages and what will replace them?
Thanks in advance
Araz

my guess is that the night-strike capable mirages/ naval attack will be the last of the venerated a/c to be de-commissioned. remember both the F-16 and JF-17 have a multi-role capability. i am sure at some point the JF-17 will have a naval attack role (exocet or more advanced ASM).
2010-2015 period will see many changes in the PAF configuration. lets hope things run smoothly in this period as the PAF needs to play catch-up with its adversaries in terms of hi-tech capabilities.

 

[ejaz007]

Came across this news. Thought should share it with all.

Sudan to buy twelve chinese fighter FC-1 ?

Regards,

 

[ejaz007]

Analysis: China sells arms to Sudan
Published: Feb. 15, 2008 at 1:03 PM
Print story Email to a friend Font size:By ANDREI CHANG

HONG KONG, Feb. 15 (UPI) -- China has exported more advanced weapon systems to Sudan.

TV video footage of a military parade during the 52nd anniversary of Sudanese independence last year shows that the country already had new-generation Chinese T96 and upgraded T59D main battle tanks and T92 wheeled infantry fighting vehicles fitted with Russian 2A72 30-mm cannon guns.

China acquired the technology from Russia to produce 2A72 30-mm cannon guns, which is believed to have been used to upgrade the Chinese PLA ground forces' T86 infantry fighting vehicles, or IFVs. Installing 2A72 guns on T92 wheeled IFVs for export to Sudan is a recent development. So far the T-92 wheeled IFVs have been known to be provided only to the Chinese No.38 Group Army.

This appears to be the first time China has exported T92 wheeled IFVs and T96 MBTs to an African nation. The technological standard of this equipment is far superior to ground force equipment China has previously exported to Africa.

At the International Defense Exhibition and Conference 2007 held in Abu Dhabi last year, China introduced the upgraded variant of the T59D tank. African countries that are now using T59 tanks include Zambia and Tanzania.

In recent years, China has largely reinforced military cooperation with African countries through the strategy of trading oil for weapons. Both Sudan and Nigeria have purchased China-made F7M fighters. In 2005 Sudan exported to China 6.62 million tons of crude oil, about 5.2 percent of China's total oil imports that year. China has a 40-percent stake in Sudan's largest international oil consortium.

Other Chinese weapons currently in service in the Sudanese forces include Type 54 122-mm howitzers, Type 59-I 130-mm cannons, Type 81 122-mm rocket guns, Type 59 57-mm air-defense guns, mortars of different calibers, eight J-6 fighters and a number of J-7M fighters.

Sudan has also expressed interest in purchasing 12 Chinese FC1 fighters, and the two sides are now negotiating technical details of the deal. In 1996 Sudan purchased six F7M fighters from China, and another two Y8 transport aircraft are also in service. Western military observers believe that those Chinese weapons were paid for with Sudanese oil.

The Sudan military parade in 2007 had a strong Chinese color, as most of the armored weapons were from China. The same parade revealed that the Sudan air force had Chinese-made K8 military trainers. Three K8 trainers and three MiG-29s flew over the capital during the parade. Images from the parade have revealed to the world that the Sudanese army resembles a second Chinese Liberation Army.

Analysis: China sells arms to Sudan - UPI.com