JF-17 Thunder - Information Pool

[SBD-3]

lo jawano mazay karo Similar load as that of F-16s in AntiShip operations

 

[Manticore]

The Swiss have chosen the Gripen and released some details: http://www.news.admin.ch/NSBSubscriber/message/attachments/25029.pdf

Note that they Max climb rates: Gripen >200m/s, Tiffy >200m/s and Raffy >250m/s.

In Dubai they revealed the JF-17 to have a max climb rate of 249m/s.

From these data, there is a very high probability the Gripen is inferior in the vertical to the JFT.

The both PAC and AVIC websites don’t get updated regularly. What I have noticed though is that the info gets confirmed slowly and in trickles. We should try to connect the dots – yes sometimes that is not easy and we might disagree on which dots to connect but as long as we have a healthy debate that is good.
Concerning the power of the RD-93’s improved performance, my first “dot” was none other than the late Sqn Ldr Hussain saying the JFT has a TWR of more than 1.01! Next “dot” was the Klimov poster of 96kN. Then we have the Dubai presentation of 249m/s climb which surpasses the Gripen E/F and the EF-2000. … … And of course we don’t question the power of the Gripen E/F or the EF-2000 … … for the simple and sad reason that they are Western and not cheap Chinese fighters!!.

I could be wrong but I believe that the max climb rate is more from the engine thrust than the wings. Yes wings still provide some lift. The other climb rate is the optimal where you try to burn less fuel and rely less on the engine but more on the wings …???

We also have sources saying the Chinese were asking the Russians to improve the engine. So, should we be surprised or be shocked that there is a more powerful engine out there. When we know the “sister” RD-33K has got a lot more power anyway.

Another possible hint for the improved engine is the >4,000kg (4,600kg) external stores.
In all these “dots” I can see a pattern and some consistency that point to an RD-93 that delivers more that the original 84kN.

A recent rumor (March 2011) suggested that an improved version with a stealth optimized forward fuselage (diamond-shaped nose cross section?) is being developed. A prototype may have been flying. A further improved version (JF-17A/JF-17 Block 2?) featuring an AESA radar, IRST and IFR probe and a two-seat trainer version (JF-17B?) are thought to has been proposed and likely be under development as well.
- Last Updated 11/27/11

Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

 

[SBD-3]

New information by sir pshamim

JF-17 progress. Block-2 of Jf-17 will be in production as of Mid 2015 until late 2015. Block-3 will be in production in 2016.
Pakistan and China have been very coy about any significant details leaking out. I also feel that some misinformation may also be comin out from time to time.

The new reports indicate Block-2 having Link-16, Use of A Darter, aerial refuelling, and other avionics as mentioned from time to time. One confusing report is that Block-2 will continue with the KLJ-7 and Block 3 will introduce the AESA Radar. AESA in JF-17 and J-10B are said to be the same model.

But we never know. Pakistan and China have pleasantly surprised us time and again.

 

[Manticore]

ty Sin Pateh

 

[Donatello]

It would be sad to see AESA in only Block III......that is too far away!

 

[Sinnerman108]

cockpit layout explained.......


http://i.imgur.com/XLivt.jpg

Yes, it s an interesting one. I have looked and thought about it. I even wrote about it and decided not to post.
Maximum take-off weight = 12,700kg
Empty Weight = 6,400kg
Fuel = 2.300kg
There 12,700 – 6,400 – 2,300 = 4,000kg for external stores.
Now, why do they say >4,000kg? My thinking is, if you are going to strike only 500km away, you can choose to put 500kg less internal fuel and carry more bombs. You play with your fuel fraction.
Also, since this is take-off weight, and we are expecting IRF, the plane can load a lot less fuel, take a lot of bombs and take off and then to-up-fuel after take off. I understand that a plane can “fly” with more tonnage than it can “take-off” with. … …??? … … I need collaboration on this, so please comment/correct me.

lo jawano mazay karo Similar load as that of F-16s in AntiShip operations

Gents,

Last I was in touch, the FBW was not available on all axis.
has the FBW been enhanced ?

 

[Tempest II]

Gents,

Last I was in touch, the FBW was not available on all axis.
has the FBW been enhanced ?

I have concluded that it has because of all the very advanced upgrades for Block II and Block III, none mention FBW. ... ... If anything this says the plane already has full FBW.

 

[Sinnerman108]

I have concluded that it has because of all the very advanced upgrades for Block II and Block III, none mention FBW. ... ... If anything this says the plane already has full FBW.

Logically I am inclined to agree. If they can guide missile, there is no way they can't let a computer keep the aircraft stable on all it's 3 axis.

But I also understand from experience that what is logically true, doesn't necessarily translate to reality.
Lets try to get some data to support or otherwise the argument.

I am hoping Nabil comes around.

 

[BATMAN]

Gents,

Last I was in touch, the FBW was not available on all axis.
has the FBW been enhanced ?

You can find couple of years old video of ACM rtd. Tanvir Mehmood Ahmad.. where he replied to media and stated it is full FBW.

 

[SBD-3]

You can find couple of years old video of ACM rtd. Tanvir Mehmood Ahmad.. where he replied to media and stated it is full FBW.

Interview with Air Chief Marshal Tanveer on JF-17 Production - YouTube
4:04

 

[Dazzler]

Logically I am inclined to agree. If they can guide missile, there is no way they can't let a computer keep the aircraft stable on all it's 3 axis.

But I also understand from experience that what is logically true, doesn't necessarily translate to reality.
Lets try to get some data to support or otherwise the argument.

I am hoping Nabil comes around.

i keep strolling on the forum often.

FBW issue should have been settled as it uses dual mode (Quad and Duplex) in redundancy. Pitch is controlled by Quad, rest in by Dual but i have heard blk 2 has dual FBW removed to switch to full Quad FBW. The reason it has a backup mode is not cost efficiency but safety. Historically we have seen horrible crashes in many of advanced fighters only because of FBW computer malfunctions. From F-16 to Su-27 series, i put it this way, in JFT, a pilot has a "second chance of survival despite FBW failure". So far,there has not been a single incidence of FBW failure in JFT!

 

[Manticore]

''The development work on Dual Seat version has already started and will be a Block-III production. Look for a significant change in engine and very advanced avionics in the Block-III ''

pshamim

 

[SBD-3]

By PShamim

Though the PLAAF has not taken delivery of FC-1-twin brother of JF-17, Chinese Navy has shown great interest in FC-1. A naval version of FC-1 has been developed and the first test flight is expected to take place in 2012. FC-1 is now being planned as a carrier based aircraft along with othet type of aircrafts, probable SU-33.

This is a gret omen for JF-17 as the news indicated a continuous and on going development of the FC-1/JF-17 program. I also feel that we my see a new version beyond Block-3. China and Pakistan have shown great interest and faith in this program. We may hear further in 2012.

may be this one???????

 

[farhan_9909]

Russian plant to modernise engine for Chinese fighter planes



13.11.2006, 22.29




ST. PETERSBURG, November 13 (Itar-Tass) -- Russia旧 St. Petersburg aircraft engine plant will modernise the RD-93 turbojet engine for the light Chinese FC-1 fighter plane Super-7.

This will increase the plane旧 thrust by almost 10 percent. A thrust vectoring nozzle will add manoeuvrability to the plane.

A relevant contract is expected to be signed in November or December 2006, plant director general Alexander Vatagin told a press conference on Monday.

The plant is currently fulfilling orders under a contract signed in 2005 by Russia旧 arms exporter Rosoboronexport and China for the supply of 100 RD-93 engines for the FC-1 Super 7 fighter planes, as well space parts for them for total sum of 267 million U.S. dollars.

The plant has already supplied six engines and plans to supply nine more before the end of the year. The rest will be supplied by another plant.

Over the almost 50-year-lond history of cooperation with China, the plant has supplied different types of engines for MiG-15 planes and Mi-8, Mi-17, and Mka-28 helicopters. More than 500 engines are currently in operation on these and other aircraft, including 30 new-generation BK-2500 helicopter engines, designed and created by the plant旧 specialists, to a tune of 20 million U.S. dollars.

the engine to be transferred to china were upgraded one with 7-10% more thrust.which means around 90kn thrust and hence (PAF JFT pilot was right JFT has a 1twr)

Source:
The news is from russian media.though the actual site now dnt have this news because of being too old
this was posted in a forum
http://www.*********************/wo...fc-1-get-modernized-russian-rd-93-a-2623.html

 

[SBD-3]

New from pervaiz sahib

About the naval version of the FC-1, I have heard about few significant changes including heavier undercarriage, Inlet design has been changed to rib inlets necissitated by a new and larger nose changing the forward fuselage center of gravity, and ensuring the static instability. AlsoWings were also swept back and back to edge area has been increased.

As far as the Block-II of the land version that we have is concerned, good news is that major changes have been made in design which will allow it to borrow several features from both the FC-20 and J-11B. It is great to see an evolving Thunder.