JF-17 Thunder in Dubai Air Show 2013.

[slapshot]

JF-17 Thunder Dubai Airshow 2013 video

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1435005100046391

 

[Donatello]

When the Arab commentator was asking about the dual seat version of Thunder, and the English commentator explained about rumor that PAF don't acutally require it, why that Arab commentator laughed? Wasn't that strange?

His laughter was more like a surprise gesture. He must have been shocked to hear that there is no trainer version as all major combat aircraft always had one.

 

[Dazzler]

His laughter was more like a surprise gesture. He must have been shocked to hear that there is no trainer version as all major combat aircraft always had one.

you cant blame them can you? his laugh reflects a"conventional" attitude, i.e. a dual seat is a must whether it is needed or not. PAF has had a history of doing non-conventional things from F-6's sidewinders and gondola tanks or F-7's LGB integration.

 

[MastanKhan]

Wikipedia states JF-17 as a 4th gen fighter whereas some believe its middlish 3rd-4th gen fighter. Is block 1 of JF-17 really a 3rd gen fighter? will block 2 with its a more advanced avionics (i heard) will be counted as 4th gen?

Hi,

During battle---it does not make a difference it is 3.5---4---or 4.5---if it does the job to take on the enemy strike force and come out on top.



Oscar,

I somewhat understand PAF's stance on air show air displays. They don't want to take a 'risk' 'a la russian' style. Secondly----aircraft is being flown by an active duty fighter pilot---. Most other sellers have their own pilots to demonstrate the flight capabilities.

Display of flight capabilities are mostly for show off---to give you some strutting rights.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Hi,

During battle---it does not make a difference it is 3.5---4---or 4.5---if it does the job to take on the enemy strike force and come out on top.



Oscar,

I somewhat understand PAF's stance on air show air displays. They don't want to take a 'risk' 'a la russian' style. Secondly----aircraft is being flown by an active duty fighter pilot---. Most other sellers have their own pilots to demonstrate the flight capabilities.

Display of flight capabilities are mostly for show off---to give you some strutting rights.

Well sir, I believe this display gives some rights, perhaps not strutting rights, but rights nonetheless. The new maneuvers were refreshing to see and dispelled some apprehensions.

 

[SQ8]

Oscar,

I somewhat understand PAF's stance on air show air displays. They don't want to take a 'risk' 'a la russian' style. Secondly----aircraft is being flown by an active duty fighter pilot---. Most other sellers have their own pilots to demonstrate the flight capabilities.

Display of flight capabilities are mostly for show off---to give you some strutting rights.

From a Marketing PoV, you need to change that stance.

As such though.. the JF-17's display was more relevant as compared to a sukhoi's "ballet" as it includes maneouvers that may be undertaken during combat. throughout the display there is a good display of energy management by the pilot.

 

[slapshot]

BTW guys why don't they pull 360? Even in this recent demonstration jet completed most of the circle and when I believe was the easy part it flipped the side

 

[Edevelop]

Enjoy

 

[MastanKhan]

Well sir, I believe this display gives some rights, perhaps not strutting rights, but rights nonetheless. The new maneuvers were refreshing to see and dispelled some apprehensions.

HI,

Here is what I am saying---the ability is already there---it is just when they feel like they want to show it---they do.

The aircraft does not lack much at this stage in maneavours----it is all about the armament and electronics now.

 

[Thunder Fan]

Thunder Over Dubai As First JF-17 Batch Is Completed | Aviation International News



A GREAT NEW ABOUT JF-17 THUNDER BLOCK 2..... MUST READ.....
I KNOW AND HOPE EVERY ONE IS DESPERATELY WAITING FOR BLOCK 2.... SO NOW HERE IT COME......VERY SOON....
CHECK OUT THE LINK......


Thunder Over Dubai As First JF-17 Batch Is Completed | Aviation International News

 

[Bossman]

I am quite familiar with that. Legacy however is not reflective of current realities. Doing a loop with full squadron strength and bombers back in 50's and 60's has little to do with Airshow sensibilities. Back then ..waggling the tail about would get a crowd in frenzy. The last performance of the JF-17 also was not conservative as such either.. Cuban eights, and loops are stressful on the aircraft as well. But it was outdated. These were airshow manoeuvres practised on the F-16 when it gave its display at Farnborough in the 80's. The PAF has a rigid mindset when it comes to picking up more public savvy details and it clearly shows. None of the reasons you state are relevant to maintaining a poor public relations activity on the aircraft while similar amounts of money are spent on ridiculous TV soaps with bad animation.



That is reflective of entire Pakistani state machinery.. of which the PAF is part of.

I was not privy to the discussion which led to the airshow routine used by JF17 and I am sure neither were you. The main reason JF17 attends airshows is to introduce the aircraft and try to sell the aircraft. It is not there for public entertainment or if you allow me to modify a dialog from one of my favorite aviation movies "PAF is not a flying circus" meant to entertain aviation buffs. It's flying routine in airshows will not be the determining factor in finding customers for it. You might have attended a few airshows but it does not qualify you as an expert on the mindset of the PAF. Your sweeping statement is reflective of the types of people who write on such forums. One kind is like you, maybe after living in the west, become overly critical of any Pakistani achievement because it doesn't come up to their western standards and expectations. The other types are the chest thumpers and the jingoist. In any case, people who spent significant time on such forums

I am quite familiar with that. Legacy however is not reflective of current realities. Doing a loop with full squadron strength and bombers back in 50's and 60's has little to do with Airshow sensibilities. Back then ..waggling the tail about would get a crowd in frenzy. The last performance of the JF-17 also was not conservative as such either.. Cuban eights, and loops are stressful on the aircraft as well. But it was outdated. These were airshow manoeuvres practiced on the F-16 when it gave its display at Farnborough in the 80's. The PAF has a rigid mindset when it comes to picking up more public savvy details and it clearly shows. None of the reasons you state are relevant to maintaining a poor public relations activity on the aircraft while similar amounts of money are spent on ridiculous TV soaps with bad animation.



That is reflective of entire Pakistani state machinery.. of which the PAF is part of.

I was not privy to the discussion which led to the airshow routine used by JF17 and I am sure neither were you. The main reason JF17 attends airshows is to introduce the aircraft and try to sell the aircraft. It is not there for public entertainment or even for PR. if you allow me to modify a dialog from one of my favorite aviation movies "PAF is not a flying circus" meant to entertain aviation buffs. JF17s flying routine in airshows will not be the determining factor in finding customers for it. You might have attended a few airshows but it does not qualify you as an expert on the mindset of the PAF. Your sweeping statement is reflective of the types of people who write on such forums. One kind is like you, maybe after living in the west, become overly critical of any Pakistani achievement because it doesn't come up to their western standards and expectations. The other types are the chest thumpers and the jingoist. There are very few people who have an objective view and can balance between positives and the negatives. For that matter people who spend significant time contributing to such forums are have little or no expertise or knowledge of the topics they write about on because they were somebody in that field why would they be wasting time with a bunch of amateurs and armchairs experts. Now nothing wrong with that, we all have our interests and hobbies but then we should be honest and not go around pretending to be experts and authorities.

 

[Thunder Fan]

Thunder Over Dubai As First JF-17 Batch Is Completed | Aviation International News

FOR ALL THE THUNDER FANS ... LIKE ME... BLOCK 2 IS VERY CLOSE..............


CHECK OUT THE LINK...
Thunder Over Dubai As First JF-17 Batch Is Completed | Aviation International News

 

[monitor]

at 5 it seems JF-17 makes vertical

 

[Chak Bamu]

I was not privy to the discussion which led to the airshow routine used by JF17 and I am sure neither were you. The main reason JF17 attends airshows is to introduce the aircraft and try to sell the aircraft. It is not there for public entertainment or even for PR. if you allow me to modify a dialog from one of my favorite aviation movies "PAF is not a flying circus" meant to entertain aviation buffs. JF17s flying routine in airshows will not be the determining factor in finding customers for it. You might have attended a few airshows but it does not qualify you as an expert on the mindset of the PAF. Your sweeping statement is reflective of the types of people who write on such forums. One kind is like you, maybe after living in the west, become overly critical of any Pakistani achievement because it doesn't come up to their western standards and expectations. The other types are the chest thumpers and the jingoist. There are very few people who have an objective view and can balance between positives and the negatives. For that matter people who spend significant time contributing to such forums are have little or no expertise or knowledge of the topics they write about on because they were somebody in that field why would they be wasting time with a bunch of amateurs and armchairs experts. Now nothing wrong with that, we all have our interests and hobbies but then we should be honest and not go around pretending to be experts and authorities.

1. Oscar was not being critical of Pakistani achievement. Your perception of what he said is colored by your views themselves.

2. PAF is indeed not a flying circus. But airforce requires best talent that they can attract. Naturally only people interested in flying would be attracted. Air shows are important in developing interest in population and attracting talent. Why else do you think airshow demonstration teams exist at all? Why does PAF put on any shows at all?

3. Nobody would cough up billions of dollars for numbers alone. Decision makers need to see what they are buying. If JF-17 can show that it is NOT underpowered, and that it can do all that is required effortlessly, then that would rest some apprehensions. Governments spend money collected through taxes. They need to justify the expense. Airshows tell people that here is you tax money at work. How can you miss such an obvious link? That perhaps has to do with a sort of monolithic militaristic thinking. Just a guess, since I do not know you at all. But you do seem to trust opaqueness.

4. These forums are for spending time as a recreation. Perhaps some do it as some sort of a career. Why do you or anyone else posts here at all. Why find fault with someone else for doing essentially what you do here as well? Even if you have some claim to distinction that allows you to assume a superior perspective, you still have to concede rights to others.

5. I live and work in Pakistan, so did Oscar. We want to see how and where our taxes work. There is nothing wrong with that. If I or Oscar, or anyone else wishes PAF to do a better job, then it is our right actually. You can not fault us for that.

 

[SQ8]

I was not privy to the discussion which led to the airshow routine used by JF17 and I am sure neither were you. The main reason JF17 attends airshows is to introduce the aircraft and try to sell the aircraft. It is not there for public entertainment or even for PR. if you allow me to modify a dialog from one of my favorite aviation movies "PAF is not a flying circus" meant to entertain aviation buffs. JF17s flying routine in airshows will not be the determining factor in finding customers for it. You might have attended a few airshows but it does not qualify you as an expert on the mindset of the PAF. Your sweeping statement is reflective of the types of people who write on such forums. One kind is like you, maybe after living in the west, become overly critical of any Pakistani achievement because it doesn't come up to their western standards and expectations. The other types are the chest thumpers and the jingoist. There are very few people who have an objective view and can balance between positives and the negatives. For that matter people who spend significant time contributing to such forums are have little or no expertise or knowledge of the topics they write about on because they were somebody in that field why would they be wasting time with a bunch of amateurs and armchairs experts. Now nothing wrong with that, we all have our interests and hobbies but then we should be honest and not go around pretending to be experts and authorities.

Considering that half of your post was shoot the messenger , It's clear that you have no valid defence for what you wish to say and are only firing defensive blanks like what is called a "Khisyani billi". Ill only concentrate on the first three lines as they are relevant to the discussion. The USAF is the premier airforce of the world and that is a given, yet I would suggest you look at the airshow's it gives at its various public displays by operational units(not dedicated teams like the Thunderbirds) to get an idea of how airforces that are aware of public perceptions operate.