JF-17 Thunder in Dubai Air Show 2013.

[Manticore]

Considering that half of your post was shoot the messenger , It's clear that you have no valid defence for what you wish to say and are only firing defensive blanks like what is called a "Khisyani billi". Ill only concentrate on the first three lines as they are relevant to the discussion. The USAF is the premier airforce of the world and that is a given, yet I would suggest you look at the airshow's it gives at its various public displays by operational units(not dedicated teams like the Thunderbirds) to get an idea of how airforces that are aware of public perceptions operate.

When the female f16 pilots made it into the thunderbirds? , it was a publicity tool as well to attract females to this job. Many people came up to her and used to ask how much personal life is affected with this job for a mom etc and the discussion always ended on a positive note

 

[Riaz Hussain]

Finally the video !!!! thanks to Usman shabbir of pak def

Disappointing and boring. All it did were maneuvers the Romanian Airforce did with their Mig-21s when I was in radom 2 months back. I need a beer to pull myself together.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Disappointing and boring. All it did were maneuvers the Romanian Airforce did with their Mig-21s when I was in radom 2 months back. I need a beer to pull myself together.

I think you had a few before you looked at the demo. You probably do not appreciate the significance of the aspects that were shown in this demo.

 

[Dazzler]

dont bother, half of such types have no clue what "maneuverability" even means.

 

[Munir]

There are significant more and more different maneuvers. As far as I can judge this is the difference between 80% in Turkey and what you have seen now. The plane has probably improved FBW installed. I do notice one mistake. During low pass the plane goes up vertical but the air-brakes are not pulled inside on time. I am curious what the WS13 will bring.

 

[Meejee]

The difference between '12 & '13 show is like chalk n cheese. Very nice indeed.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@Oscar

What's wrong with mk16 ejection seats ????

 

[razgriz19]

There are significant more and more different maneuvers. As far as I can judge this is the difference between 80% in Turkey and what you have seen now. The plane has probably improved FBW installed. I do notice one mistake. During low pass the plane goes up vertical but the air-brakes are not pulled inside on time. I am curious what the WS13 will bring.

the aircraft has the same FBW as the first one, no difference at all.
And unless you're an aeronautical engineer and an expert on FBW, you can't really say that you noticed a mistake. Pilot error is a different story.

 

[Chak Bamu]

There are significant more and more different maneuvers. As far as I can judge this is the difference between 80% in Turkey and what you have seen now. The plane has probably improved FBW installed. I do notice one mistake. During low pass the plane goes up vertical but the air-brakes are not pulled inside on time. I am curious what the WS13 will bring.

Welcome back Munir. Post more often. I look forward to your posts.

As far as I can see, the air-brakes are small; puny in fact. I wonder why is it so? How effective are they actually?

the aircraft has the same FBW as the first one, no difference at all.
And unless you're an aeronautical engineer and an expert on FBW, you can't really say that you noticed a mistake. Pilot error is a different story.

@Munir is an aeronautical engineer actually. He knows what he is talking about. Among civilians, you would hardly ever come across one more knowledgeable about JF-17.

I hope you remember that induction of JF-17 was rushed for political reasons of Musharraf. The plane actually was not ready in 2007 when it made its appearance on March 23. A lot has happened since then and most likely a number of systems have been updated. I can not say about FBW, but I would not rule out an update to it.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

There are significant more and more different maneuvers. As far as I can judge this is the difference between 80% in Turkey and what you have seen now. The plane has probably improved FBW installed. I do notice one mistake. During low pass the plane goes up vertical but the air-brakes are not pulled inside on time. I am curious what the WS13 will bring.

Munir Brother .... Welcome Back.

Dont you think that Low pass (stall fly by) was quite short ... Other aircraft do it for longer duration like PAF f-16 did in Turkey and yes i noticed that too, the breaks were deployed even after the low fly by maneuver till Thunder climbed straight into the sky. I guess Ronald forgot to pull it back.

 

[lutfishah]

 

[Tempest II]

... ... the breaks were deployed even after the low fly by maneuver till Thunder climbed straight into the sky. I guess Ronald forgot to pull it back.

I am no pilot but what is the possibility that he deployed the brakes to achieve a slower speed with a higher engine thrust ... ... then at the end of the manoeuvre he could quickly pull up since his engine would already be at a high thrust setting ... ...???

 

[dbc]

I think you are not familiar with aerobatic legacy of the PAF. It was the first and maybe the only air force to do a loop with a full squadron strength and the only air force to use bombers i.e. B57s in formation aerobatics. So it is not a matter of skill or style. Its a matter of allocating scarce resources for a dedicated aerobatic team which very few countries in the world have. As far as JF17 is concerned, it is an evolutionary process. It is advisable to take a conservative approach and avoid any serious mishaps in the early stages of an aircraft's development. If a country has an established aviation industry like Russia for example it can get away with a few crashes at international airshows but for a country like Pakistan, any mishap at an international airshow would pretty much mean an end to any international interest in the aircraft.

Nah... the RAF did those loops in two feet visibility in the 1960's. If you want to be an ace formation flyer using nothing but instruments you learn from the RAF. The JF-17 routine looks like it was developed by someone who has never flown the JF-17 (possibly an F-16 or Mirage jock?)

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

I am no pilot but what is the possibility that he deployed the brakes to achieve a slower speed with a higher engine thrust ... ... then at the end of the manoeuvre he could quickly pull up since his engine would already be at a high thrust setting ... ...???

Of course the stall maneuver cannot be performed without deploying air brakes .... But as you mentioned, pilot pulls up or go straight with engine on full throttle BUT after retracting the air brakes. Because deployed air brakes produce so much drag that speed of the aircraft reduces 10 - 20 percent at high thrust.

It seems to be an Error to me.

 

[Tempest II]

It would be interesting to know is the manoeuvre was done with the brakes on all the three days of the display. If so, then it was not an error and when just need to learn and understand the logic. If he used the brakes on only one display, then, yes, possibly and error … … and that may not even be definite.