JF 17 is The Wrong Omnirole Aircraft For PAKISTAN

[untitled]

pls correct me if I am wrong both mentioned birds are using different engines.

Same engine but different versions of the AL-31 series which is also being used in the J-10

 

[CHI RULES]

Hi,

Times have changed----the current B52 bomber that just came out of the overhaul shop with the new gadgetry---will be able to shoot BVR missiles---it will have a massive radar that could jam the nuts of an enemy pilot flying 50 miles away.

Israel does not face an enemy the size and fire power of india. What Israel had was and is far superior to what its opponents had. The combined forces of Egypt, Syria and Jordan had less aircraft than the Israelis---Israel had more tanks and howitzers than these three put together.

Fire fights in this decade will start with long range shots---and the results will determine which way the battle is going to head---and with the number of bvr's being carried by the heavies and the potency of missiles tracking system----the mortality rate would be pretty high.

Your strike aircraft are not there to hold your air superiority---they are the ones carrying the extra load---because the margin of opportunity will be extremely narrow---and once you slip thru it---you need to have a potent load to justify the sacrifices made to get there.

Now you can fly a JFT's hidden under wing of a JH7B---it can pop up and create a much needed diversion for the strike force to get thru.

We might also want to use the air launch version of our babur cruise missile as well---the air launch version will give it another 1/3rd more range than the surface launch version---which means that if the current version of the surface to surface is around a 1000 KM---the air launched version would be around1300--1400 KM.

You have heavy enemy aircraft against you---by default---they will have larger radars and heavier jamming equipment than yours as well.

The loiter time of the JFT is nothing to be proud of----otoh---the enemy aircraft are looking at 3-4 hr loiter time---which mean---they can fly around and make a dash at the opportune time. The only aircraft to counter that would be the F 16's---.

If you want to use your tankers---it would have to be farther away from the borders----qute a ways off.

SU 27 in the bomber role cannot hold itself against the enemy aircraft---not even the JF17---but it is there---and so would the tornado be---till it is retired---.

When you send aircraft on strike missions----they are going in for the target---and not to put up a fight on the way in----their guardian aircraft will put up the fight---.

the strike aircraft will also take mission without any air support as well---just to do their jobs nicely quietly----. If you are old enough to remember we used to have B57 bombers in the 65 war-------. Yeah bombers still do exist---and bombers will make mission runs without any support as well.

The reason I mentioned the JH7B is that it will run the same price as the JF 17---it can carry close to 10000 KG of armament----it can have a massive aesa radar as well and can be equipped with heavy jammers.

Your other air superiority heavies run around 50 mil + range

Dear Sir haven't it's air combat capabilities are limited if compared with J11B or J16

 

[[Bregs]]

View attachment 247554

This man looking very cute

 

[Pindi Boy]

"when president ZIA-ul-HAq said ” Mr. Rajeev you want to attack Pakistan, do it. But keep in mind after this war World will forget Hilaku Khan and Changees Khan and will remember only Zia-ul-Haq and Rajeev Gandhi. Because this will not be a conventional war but nuclear war. Possibly whole Pakistan might be destroyed in this war but Muslims will still be there, however after destruction of India, Hinduism will be vanished.”

 

[CHI RULES]

Same engine but different versions of the AL-31 series which is also being used in the J-10

izdeliye (Product) 117S (AL-41F1S) of Su35 is much more capable development with merely no problems so far pointed out, even China is also interested in this engine for equipping it's 5th gen Jets.

 

[Kakaspai]

"when president ZIA-ul-HAq said ” Mr. Rajeev you want to attack Pakistan, do it. But keep in mind after this war World will forget Hilaku Khan and Changees Khan and will remember only Zia-ul-Haq and Rajeev Gandhi. Because this will not be a conventional war but nuclear war. Possibly whole Pakistan might be destroyed in this war but Muslims will still be there, however after destruction of India, Hinduism will be vanished.”

no matter what people say of Zia ul Haq but the fact is that guy had balls to do what he wanted

 

[Magi Brahmin]

150 JF-17s are confirmed and PAF will go for it.

I know but I THINK 100 Thunders are enough, 40-50 J-10s can be game changer for PAF

 

[RazorMC]

F-16 is a medium weight aircraft and not light weight. It empty weight is near 9tons. How can that be light weight? Just becos it single engine does not mean its light weight.

You can't simply look at the weight to classify the aircraft.

An expert in this field can give better info.

 

[Eagle Claw]

I will not call JF17 a wrong aircraft for PAF, but I would rather say JF17 is not a solution for everything. PAF should go for SU35, i.e. if they are truly offered by the Russians to Pakistan then there should be no further delay.

J20 & J31 are still not ready & they will take a lot of time & will under go a lot of trials before they get inducted in PLAAF, so we are looking a years.

J10 is a good available option for PAF but I don't know why PAF is not going for J10's.

Well I think we should not waste money on J-10Bs as Thunder has more or less similar Capabilities. We need Airsuperiority Fighter + Strike Aircraft/Bomber at the moment. JH-7B will be ideal as it will not cost more than 20 Million USD. If we want something Better than it, Su-34 will be the Best option as it is a Complete Package, Provides Huge Range PESA, Payload, Hardpoints, EW etc. Birds expected costs is Approx 40 million USD.

Si

Sir will Russia give us Super flankers???? and there is also a issue of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$???

No Issue of $s as we won't go for Big numbers, Just 24-30 for Time being as a Stop Gap b/w 4th and 5th Gen, a 4++ Gen Fighter !
PAF is interested in it.
Even Sputnik Reported Pakistan as an Expected Customer of Su-35.
And Russia will give it, in past Russia has offered Su-27 and Mig 35s. But PAF didn't Considered.

 

[Pindi Boy]

Well I think we should not waste money on J-10Bs as Thunder has more or less similar Capabilities. We need Airsuperiority Fighter + Strike Aircraft/Bomber at the moment. JH-7B will be ideal as it will not cost more than 20 Million USD. If we want something Better than it, Su-34 will be the Best option as it is a Complete Package, Provides Huge Range PESA, Payload, Hardpoints, EW etc. Birds expected costs is Approx 40 million USD.



No Issue of $s as we won't go for Big numbers, Just 24-30 for Time being as a Stop Gap b/w 4th and 5th Gen, a 4++ Gen Fighter !
PAF is interested in it.
Even Sputnik Reported Pakistan as an Expected Customer of Su-35.
And Russia will give it, in past Russia has offered Su-27 and Mig 35s. But PAF didn't Considered.

SIR what about india as they are seeking towards f 16 IN??????

 

[Erroroverload]

Hi,

JF 17 is the wrong air craft for the armed forces of Pakistan. Even though it has been inducted with a great fanfare and extremely positive results---this aircraft is a little too small aircraft to do the job right when facing the likes of IAF.

On its own merit---the JF 17---for its size has one of the best overall packages available in the industry---air to air---air to ground and air to sea---.

So---in order to have balance in its air arm---Pakistan will have to purchase multiple other platforms.

We have the F16's and possibly no more F 16's----.

We need a medium strike aircraft---with the likes of a JH7B with aesa---this aircraft is like the tornado---. This aircraft can carry 8-10 anti ship missiles and still can defend itself with BVR missiles as well. In the Growler mode, this aircraft take the potency to fight back the enemy to a new level.

Pakistan also need an air superiority type aircraft----like the J 10B----or the J 11---and then on top of that---Pakistan will be looking forward to a stealth type plane like the J 31.

Pakistan military is missing the strike capability of a Tornado type of aircraft in its arsenal---and for that---PAF has failed to deliver.

The procurement of fighter aircraft needs to be taken away from the Pakistan air force---a 3 member team formed with the decision to buy that is needed.

Basically---PAF CANNOT be TRUSTED to buy the right type of equipment---. Like in the case of Saab aircraft----. Paf wanted all saab aircraft and Musharraf put a stop to it and got 4 or 5 chinese variants to have diversity and lines open in case of sanctions from Sweden.

Musharraf's decision proved to ve correct----the Chinese aircraft are as potent or better than the Swedish.

In a similar manner---Musharraf made the deal to buy 36 J 10's---. He knew in his heart and he knew from his experience that the JF 17 as good as it is in its class with all the paraphernalia---is not the answer to the needs of Pakistan.

Pakistan needed a bigger and a more potent aircraft-----.

Now Paf may have thought otherwise----but if you ook at the history of Paf since 1971----it is mostly of failures---bad decisions---lack of understanding the level of threat---at times total ignorance of issues at hand---at times not sharing the level of imminent threat to the national assets-----.

Which basically leads it be acting more like a person who is acting like someone with least concern rather than one who has the best interest of the Pakistan.

In your own, you r quite right sir, but its like, my pay is Rs 15000/m and i m thinking to buy a new car, which i cant.
We do need some heavy weight fighters, but with empty pockets JF 17 is best value 4 r money.Its a win win 4 Pakistan.

 

[Chanakyaa]

SIR what about india as they are seeking towards f 16 IN??????

Where ? F16 was rejected in MMRCA.

 

[Pindi Boy]

Where ? F16 was rejected in MMRCA.

i was in indian forum and they were discussing MMRCAII

 

[Chanakyaa]

i was in indian forum and they were discussing MMRCAII

F16 is seeking India, not the other way. Business Tactics.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Pakistan does need a few squadrons of heavies or medium multi-role fighters in numbers, no questions about it. Pakistan doesn't need a strike platform as it won't be striking anyone..

think close air support think enemy concentrations that are advancing unchallenged , think enemy air bases near our borders sending sorties against our defending forces and then read your sentence again.
dont confuse striking with bombing Dehli or Agra. strike is also defensive in nature. Indian mobile SAM sites will pose danger to even our CAP missions and SEAD missions will be needed to neutralise them

 

[Pindi Boy]

Mastan's love- hate relationship with Thunder has been consistent.

The question really is, what exactly, the difference between a medium fighter like J-10b and JF-17?What sets JF-17 and J-10 apart?

Is it the range? Is it the avionics? Is it the weaponry? Is it the Radar? Is it the growth prospects? Is it low radar signature?

Compact range is more in JF-17, hence its not the point. Avionics could be identical, Weaponry is same, JF-17 can have the same radar of J-10 ...

So the what is that which makes J-10B stand apart from JF-17?

Is it stealth? If so JF-17 being smaller will have a definite edge.and extensive usage of composites will bring down the visibility on radars.

JF-17 is and will more of a Pakistani fighter than Chinese and the growth prospects of these fighter will be on parallel with the future of PAF .

If Mastan's wishlist is based on what India is buying or planning to buy, then that's because India's home grown program or an alternative to find jets apart from heavy to maintain Su-30s have been stuck deep in indecisive dramas and policy paralysis along with an absurd bargaining .

Ofcourse the next BIG purchase should be J-31s when its ready. Until then the focus should be solely on inducting and training the PAF into JF-17 specific force along with adding the fighter with all the goodies that China can offer and stop worrying about what other buy.

The only advantage between a Medium fighter must be a twin jet, but that's not an issue since J-10B is also a single engine fighter..

So be happy with the fighter you have.

It has immense growth potential , is cheaper and is apna (own).

The difference between Jf-17 and J-10 is of Hard points firstly Thunder has 7 and J-10 has 11, It can carry more weapons aat once then the second big difference is the thrust to weight ratio Thunder has a thrust to weight ratio of 1.09 while j-10 has a thrust to weight ratio of 1.15 with AL-31FN3 engine And 1.16 with WS-10B in close combat of medium range combat Thrust to weight ratio matters aloooooot then thunder is +8-3 G fighter while J-10 is +9-3 G slightly more maneuverable J-10 can climb much higher than thunder but thunder has and edge over ferry range it can go much far away than j-10 and J-10 has more speed than thunder as it can go upto 2.2 mach while thunder is still struggling for 1.8 from 1.6 mach in short j-10 is slightly up and advanced than thunder in all aspects except RCS SIZE FERRY RANGE and IN EASY CONTROLLING so that r the things which makes J-10B stand apart from JF-17