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JF-17 French Avionics Deal On Hold/Cancelled

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JF-17 is still a very cheap priced aircraft in comparison to the performance it has. At 20M US$, its pretty cheap. And with in house production the price may even go down considerably. So if that happens, we will have enough room to buy AESA radar available and its not compulsory that each JF-17 has to be equipped with AESA.

And with AESA even if the JF-17 costs us 25M per piece, not a bad bargain.

:what:
The cost is not one time 25M that PAF will be worried about. It is the lifetime cost of the aircraft. The more the platforms, variation in radars, etc the more the complexity to manage, service the aircraft. The higher will the cost of training the ground crew in understanding technology. Integration with the modern warfare that is network centric will become a little more complex.

AESA radar is not a game changer if the aircraft is under the supervision of AWACS. Pakistan is going for smaller and larger number of AWACS and if thought through, the deficiency if any in a cheaper platform is not much of a handicap. If Pakistan keep pushing the envelope and decide to spend more on JF-17, it may become an unlikely export aircraft as it loses its unique selling proposition.

However, it is almost certain that JF-17 cannot be used as an air superiority fighter given its power plant and its matchup against SU 30 MKI or the block 52 F16s.

:cheers:
 
:what:
The cost is not one time 25M that PAF will be worried about. It is the lifetime cost of the aircraft. The more the platforms, variation in radars, etc the more the complexity to manage, service the aircraft. The higher will the cost of training the ground crew in understanding technology. Integration with the modern warfare that is network centric will become a little more complex.

AESA radar is not a game changer if the aircraft is under the supervision of AWACS. Pakistan is going for smaller and larger number of AWACS and if thought through, the deficiency if any in a cheaper platform is not much of a handicap. If Pakistan keep pushing the envelope and decide to spend more on JF-17, it may become an unlikely export aircraft as it loses its unique selling proposition.

However, it is almost certain that JF-17 cannot be used as an air superiority fighter given its power plant and its matchup against SU 30 MKI or the block 52 F16s.

:cheers:

AESA radars are gonna be coming to PAF one way or another in the next few years. Rather the AESA based AEW&C are already getting inducted and in fighters also they are soon gonna come.

We have western and chinese both options, whether in the AESA section or the normal Doppler radars.

PAF will always try to go for 2 options, western and chinese on either its JF-17 or FC-20s. As said again and again, PAF doesn't wants to put all its eggs in one basket and wanna keep comparing both west and eastern products and get the best out of them.

And as for PAF training, no worries, they can cope with it, and with a Chinese option, the maintenance and other issues won't be a problem as we can get in house production facilities, same may happen with western ones, the way we are license producing Griffo radars for the F-7s.

And even with different set of radars, there would be no problem in integrating them into info centric warefare, as PAF is already doing them, take the example of JF-17, it has data link capability and can fully communicate with western platforms even though it has Chinese radar, but its communication equipment is western.

AESA is not game changer, but it gives you a lot of flexibility and PAF would have no issues the one which you have told above in the long run.

And as for JF-17, let time come and we will see what it really can do and what are its capabilities and what future holds for it.

Even if its operational costs go up with AESA radar or western avionics, the price would still be much more less compared to western platforms whose just initial cost is double the cost of JF-17.
 
JF-17 French Avionics Deal On Hold/Cancelled

I appreciate France succumbing to Indian agenda of limiting pakistans capabilities. Those avionics were the actual ingredient that would have added the extra +0.5 Gen capability to the 3 gen JF-17.

Good news wrt Indian POV.
 
I appreciate France succumbing to Indian agenda of limiting pakistans capabilities. Those avionics were the actual ingredient that would have added the extra +0.5 Gen capability to the 3 gen JF-17.

Good news wrt Indian POV.

JF-17 is not 3 gen. From the information on the net it is much better than 3 gen. Under-estimating our adversary is the last thing we should do. If JF-17 can launch a BVR, and recognise targets in wide angles and engage multiple targets at the same time, link and coordinate with AWACS, mid flight refuelling, etc ... we have to accept that it is modern technology and is closer to 4th gen. Lets stop fooling ourselves.
 
JF-17 is not 3 gen. From the information on the net it is much better than 3 gen. Under-estimating our adversary is the last thing we should do. If JF-17 can launch a BVR, and recognise targets in wide angles and engage multiple targets at the same time, link and coordinate with AWACS, mid flight refuelling, etc ... we have to accept that it is modern technology and is closer to 4th gen. Lets stop fooling ourselves.

u forgot to mention stand-off weapons,guided bombs,air to surface guided missiles and yes Thunder is capable of link-16 standard n works with ERIEYE.
no air to air refueling in current fleet...it will be installed after 40 or 50 aircrafts.
 
I appreciate France succumbing to Indian agenda of limiting pakistans capabilities. Those avionics were the actual ingredient that would have added the extra +0.5 Gen capability to the 3 gen JF-17.

Good news wrt Indian POV.

Its not surprising how you came up with a theory of your own that France succumbing to Indian pressure and those avionics will add ".5" generation. Based on what analysis did you say this? For your information, jf-17 at its current stage, is already serious enough threat that was admitted last year by our F-16 pilots. The best favor Indian military establishment will do to thunder's threat is to under estimate its capabilities. On another note, Italians are being negotiated well before French as they have offered Grifo series in the past and are willing to share their new AESA offering along with Grifo-S. France is historically not a reliable military partner anyway which is proved many times. :)
 
Its not surprising how you came up with a theory of your own that France succumbing to Indian pressure and those avionics will a ".5" generation. Based on what analysis did you say this? For your information, jf-17 at its current stage, is already serious enough threat that was admitted last year by our F-16 pilots. The best favor Indian military establishment will do to thunder's threat is to under estimate its capabilities. On another note, Italians are being negotiated well before French as they have offered Grifo series in the past and are willing to share their new AESA offering along with Grifo-S. France is historically not a reliable military partner anyway which is proved many times. :)

Are you sure Italy is more reliable than France ? :lol:
 
Do you know what products we have from Italian manufacturers ???

One that comes to my mind because of latest tests :
Spada 2000 air defense system

Well I do know French were very reliable just a few days back. :azn:
 
One that comes to my mind because of latest tests :
Spada 2000 air defense system

Well I do know French were very reliable just a few days back. :azn:

Falco UAV with in house production facility.

Grifo series radars for F-7s and upgraded Mirages, with license assembly in Pakistan

Spada 2000 SAM

and many other products with even PA using some.

So for now they are much closer compared to French.

And French came into the picture aftr Mr.10% came into power, otherwise their Vixen series of radars have been contenders for long time, and still are.

And yeah hopefully in future you will see another platform being inducted of the Italians.

For us, no one is reliable enough as they are still western nations, but in recent times Italians have been helping us a lot.
 
Falco UAV with in house production facility.

Grifo series radars for F-7s and upgraded Mirages, with license assembly in Pakistan

Spada 2000 SAM

and many other products with even PA using some.

So for now they are much closer compared to French.

And French came into the picture aftr Mr.10% came into power, otherwise their Vixen series of radars have been contenders for long time, and still are.

And yeah hopefully in future you will see another platform being inducted of the Italians.

For us, no one is reliable enough as they are still western nations, but in recent times Italians have been helping us a lot.

BRO u forgot to mention BURAQ ARMED DRONE,based on Falco UAV design.
isnt Italy helping in that.:what:
 
BRO u forgot to mention BURAQ ARMED DRONE,based on Falco UAV design.
isnt Italy helping in that.:what:

Well the armed version of Falco has not yet flown, the program got postponed, even though it would be mentioned that PAF may become also its first operator just like Falco UAV.

But its postponement means, PAF has not shown much interest in it, due to their own program which we know as Burraq.

So if armed version of falco hasn't flown, it means Burraq is not its copy, rather something else.
 
Lets stick to topic.

Thanks for the advice, but we are sticking to the topic, as we are comparing what French have offered and is to offer compared to others which are the contenders in case the French deal totally goes bust.

So we are pretty much in the right discussion.
 
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