JF-17 French Avionics Deal On Hold/Cancelled

[shehbazi2001]

It is a known fact that Pakistan Diplomats are weaker professionally than other diplomats. Diplomacy and defence deals are not a tit for tat game. Pakistani Diplomats have continuously failed to get Pakistan's point across to the International community and this french deal, if it was put on hold because of Indian pressure, serves as another reminder that Pakistan must change the way it approaches its diplomatic missions. If you really want to talk about India in terms of Diplomacy you dont have to look very far to see how successful Indian diplomats have been to get India's points across to the international community. The Nuclear Deal, NSG approval, Kargil, various arms deals and India's position at the UN are a clear statement to the success of Indian diplomacy. This success comes from a intense training program at the lower levels and a very high standard for Diplomats. International relations are not a d1ck waving party but a careful manipulation of words and decisions so that the end result is what you need. It is due time that Pakistan revamps its Diplomatic missions.

If Indian pressure was behind the JF-17 package issue, then Pakistan too can demand from France to refuse upgrade deal for Mirage-2000, in case India does not select Rafale and JF-17 deal becomes acceptable to French.

It seems that France is not that much interested in upgrade programs, rather France needs a buyer for Rafales. UAE is ready to buy Rafales if France can find a buyer for its Mirage-2000s. If India finalises the deal for Mirage-2000 upgrades, then its possible that France shall offer it UAE Mirage-2000-9s. France can offer India a package of 60 UAE Mirage-2000s and 60 Rafales. This shall open up a second Rafale deal for UAE too.

For India, this deal is not bad at all. Upgraded Mirages and Rafales shall share the same avionics and weapons mostly. Additionally, for an aircraft to become mainstay of an airforce, it should be at least 80-100 in numbers and 100 Mirage-2000s with 60 Rafales is a formidable force. The fact that there are no export customers, the delivery of Rafales can be faster.

The possibility looks realistic because USA would certainly have its reservations for AESA radar in Indian inventory due to possible Russian acces. AESA is carried by Super Hornet. Its hard that India would accept US conditions for checking etc over Super Hornets, unless some good progress is made on civil nuclear energy package.

If Indians realise that France can provide them AESA with no-strings attached, it may encourage sealing the deal with them. Help on the design of cryogenic rocket engines may prove to be another deciding factor, especially when the home-designed has problems.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

It is a known fact that Pakistan Diplomats are weaker professionally than other diplomats. Diplomacy and defence deals are not a tit for tat game. Pakistani Diplomats have continuously failed to get Pakistan's point across to the International community and this french deal, if it was put on hold because of Indian pressure, serves as another reminder that Pakistan must change the way it approaches its diplomatic missions. If you really want to talk about India in terms of Diplomacy you dont have to look very far to see how successful Indian diplomats have been to get India's points across to the international community. The Nuclear Deal, NSG approval, Kargil, various arms deals and India's position at the UN are a clear statement to the success of Indian diplomacy. This success comes from a intense training program at the lower levels and a very high standard for Diplomats. International relations are not a d1ck waving party but a careful manipulation of words and decisions so that the end result is what you need. It is due time that Pakistan revamps its Diplomatic missions.

Perhaps you shouldnt worry too much about it!
What we ve set out to achieve will eventually happen.
It is high time we realized that things can go awry anytime & learn
to become self reliant as well as look elsewhere in the meantime!

 

[ANG]

Hi, it makes sense for India to purchase the UAE M2Ks. If you recall India wanted to purchase the 12 Qatari M2Ks, but the price asked for by Qatar was to high. India has 40+ M2Ks and it makes sense for them to get more, it they are upgrading their current ones. Just my 2 cents.

 

[zulfiqar74]

Spare a Billion Dollar for my Diamond Jewelery as well
NESCOM & Air Weapon Complex Funds are already cut thanks to Mr. 10% & you are saying things totally in the air, Making Radars, Engines & Weapons ain't like making Models, any one with little bit of Engineering sense knows that pretty well, If it would have been that easy we would have seen every country in the world making its own State of the Art Fighter A/Cs,
This thing needs investment & Facilities for R&D something which we totally lack, our only option right now is to look on the existing platforms try to integrate them for our own use, I still don't understand why we refused Israelis & acted like Pak-rabs, we would not have got anything better than Python-4 & Python-5, PAF is clever enough to know about source Codes & Israelis ain't stupid either
but you know we must not buy the 'Zionist Weapons'

Well pakistan should send scientists to do further study in other countries or get scientist, doctors and engineers specialising in defence studies and civil from europe japan to work and train local students and scientists. plus pakistan should invest in building aeronautical complexes, plus naval yards new ordinance factory with latest equipments do experiments work. Unfortunately the only trend in education is either doctor, engineer, mba or accountant. man there are other studies that people can do like gun smith, defence studies, industrial design etc etc,

example an industrial design student can design a rifle, or weapon which then can be coordinated with our engineers who will devise the right raw material plus other technical aspect etc. We need army officers in the field to discuss, do meeting, brain storming with the designer and engineer about the type of weapons the army navy or airforce requires. this is a process, i dont think in pakistan we have a process or an institution looking into future technology and research either civil or defence. This same process can be applied to so many aspect in defence and civil to improve the economic and financial position and stability in Pakistan

Unfortunately pakistan will never prosper as long as the people sitting in the govt are corrupt mostly dum uneducated can write either english or urdu, cant communcate professionally and are in that position because of their connections.

Pakistan is a very hard working determined prosperous country with a bright and strong future where anything and every thing is possible. All we need is the right change, right people, young patriot blood who is well versed with the west and can speak proper urdu and english without the stupid foreign slang intuned, to run this country and its depts. We need the right administrators who are justful, law obedient and definately not corrupt and devoted to finish corruption and get this country back to order before its too late.....

 

[zulfiqar74]

i also heared it in news that becoz of indian presurrre they stoped the deal with pakistan now pakistan should not buy in future anything from france it is a sour lesson which we have to learn and it will prevent us from futureistic probleums of defenxce equipment and now pakistan has to make a new foreign policy in which we should have good relations with russia i know it is not easy but it is not impossible to we have to show them our loyliaty for them

I agree with you 100% we should open a friendly dialague with the russians as Pakistan needs a bigger support, and if they want to play it right as US should know that we are not dependent on them. This will be benefical as Russia will deliver to pakistan.
plus we should also open friendly dialogue defence imports with other EU countries and japan. we need to stop being dependent on the US and french unless they provide the tot with the purchase no defence deals with these countries..

 

[farhan_9909]

I think we should cancell all defence deal with france..

if we said to italy to transfer the radar which is in development for Gripen..
i am sure they will offer us that AESA..

 

[Hulk]

The problem with Russia is you have India in between, you might get some support but most of time it will be blocked.

 

[kashith]

I agree with you 100% we should open a friendly dialague with the russians as Pakistan needs a bigger support, and if they want to play it right as US should know that we are not dependent on them. This will be benefical as Russia will deliver to pakistan.
plus we should also open friendly dialogue defence imports with other EU countries and japan. we need to stop being dependent on the US and french unless they provide the tot with the purchase no defence deals with these countries..

after what your ISI has done in Afghanistan's war???Russia has some wounds which will not be so easily healed.at present only China is a friend to Pak....and anyways leaving one superpower to dallying with other....hmm Uncle would be really angry with ya

 

[thunder rules]

sabar ka phal meetha hota hai we will surly get some thing better for our thunder..

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well we are still getting aother 18 thudners this year (end of year) on top of our first squadron ... ist not bad

 

[thunder rules]

Well we are still getting aother 18 thudners this year (end of year) on top of our first squadron ... ist not bad

really thats a good news

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

really thats a good news

Well I am positive we should get another 10+ but if our boys in engineering are eager beavers 18 more planes in 2010 is possible

 

[Javed3]

In simple terms the Avionics deal cancellation is a foreign policy failure.

Pakistan's market is about 10% of the size of India. Our defense budget is stretched due to FATA operations, leaving precious little for acquisitions.

What we have on our side is the geographical location and the heavy French NATO forces footprint in Afghanistan. Sustainability of NATO / French / US operations in Afghanistan are almost entirely dependent on Pakistan's goodwill. This dependency has to be demonstrated through toning down our enthusiasm and refusing to work for low wages. The French, Europeans and the Americans must get a measured dose of our anger .... and its implications. "Lal Aankh" sure helps

We sure need to stop Zardari and other corrupt political and military leaders cashing in on the goodwill.

 

[thunder rules]

Well I am positive we should get another 10+ but if our boys in engineering are eager beavers 18 more planes in 2010 is possible

well i dont think 18 planes will be handed over by this year may be 10 because i our production line dont seems to be that much mature to produces 18 more just after first Pakistan made thunder was delivered few months back. but if its true then its amazing..

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

well i dont think 18 planes will be handed over by this year may be 10 because i our production line dont seems to be that much mature to produces 18 more just after first Pakistan made thunder was delivered few months back. but if its true then its amazing..

All it is is just adding more man power & expanding the facility we already have the parts etc ... just man power so I expect us to enhance our manufacturing based on current realities of world

I think 18 while being very optomistic , may be 15 more planes is more reasonable expectation