JF-17 French Avionics Deal On Hold/Cancelled

[Frankenstein]

You got the right Idea.. but Pakistan does not have money to do this.. 150 rafael = more than total money in Pakistan's treasury at this time.. and the way things are going, this treasury will not be expanding anytime soon...

How do you know about that, any source??

 

[Hayreddin]

Totally unfair
Unluckily we dont have such government to respond hard toward france.

 

[Frankenstein]

Whats you point?

So are you suggesting that you are the only one with a NUKE?

Noe actually he meant that we have more number of nukes

 

[Frankenstein]

Whats you point?

So are you suggesting that you are the only one with a NUKE?

Noe actually he meant that we have more number of nukes

 

[shanixee]

i am confused...the RC 400 is radar which is used in MK2...so this means that JF 17 thunder will be equal to MK2. so this means at the moment its still not equal to MK2....can some 1 plz help me explain if i am wrong or not wrong...

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Guys, Guys, Guys.

I would suggest to cool down (abhee teil dekho or teil kee dhar dhekho). At present try to read between the lines and try and find out what French have in their nails. In these situations there is often lot more than what "meets the eye".

Also, this is not the first time it has happened with Pakistan. In late 70's French pulled out of a nuclear reactor deal (under U.S. pressure) and in 90's Americans refused to deliver F16.

We need to play it very carefully and first find out the "real story". To say that French have done it under Indian pressure is merely speculative a this stage. Don't show Indians your weak side and don't tell them that it hurts.

Even if it is the case then alternatives can be found (Italy, China)

 

[Mahakaya]

Noe actually he meant that we have more number of nukes

Well good for you but latest estimates i.e. median for both countries is around 60 nuclear warheads.....so the point is invalid and the fact is that Pakistan is not the only one with Nukes i.e. if it is an apples to apples comparison then you cannot say it is a deterrent as it is an equal deterrence for Pakistan.

Further with PAD and AAD the deterrence argument actually falls in favour of India given the Scientists claim that the PAD and AAD once locked on have a 98% hit probability. So a first strike policy may not be that enticing. I have heard that missile shields are useless and all that but then again no country will be insane enough to pour billions into such research and gain nothing out of it.

 

[shanixee]

this is the French news paper

Asie-Pacifique - LeMonde.fr

this is the translation


Kings weeks before the visit to Paris of Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, April 19, the Elysee has recently taken a decision that could overshadow the meeting described as "important". France does not give, in effect, the green light to a contract of 1.2 billion euros for the electronics equipment and missile than a hundred fighter aircraft JF-17, manufactured by Pakistan with the help of the Chinese.

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After eighteen months of negotiations, the French company OTE, coupled with Thales and MBDA, was retained by Islamabad. It was the first part of a package of 6 billion Euros to the equipment of all JF-17 Pakistan Air Force, nearly 400 hunters.

"I have not been directly informed of the choice of Elysium, which I find extremely surprising in view of industrial issues and strategic for France in this region," said Jean-Marc Pizano, head of ETA.

The interministerial committee to study the export of war materials (CIEEMG) was issued in the summer of 2008, an opinion in favor of opening negotiations. What was needed, according to ETA, the agreement of the French government.

According to an adviser of the President of the Republic, this refusal is, inter alia, related to French-Indian relations. The signing of this contract, in the current context of tension between India and Pakistan, would serve the interests of Paris and New Delhi.

Regarding the Directorate General for Armaments (DGA), were added Thursday 1 April that the resumption of talks with India for the modernization of France, its fleet of Mirage 2000 was also instrumental in the decision of the Elysee.

Intense lobbying India

It's the end of a standoff between the different French government amid differences over the policy of France in South Asia. The French Ministry of Foreign Affairs for its part seemed restive. Subject of intense lobbying by India, he believed that government approval was denied by the lack of guarantees related to the protection of French technology. According to the Quai d'Orsay, the Pakistanis wanted, unlike the terms of the contract, that the assemblies and equipment of JF-17 will do so on their soil.

Ministry of Finance, who said he supports the signing and seeking to increase the level of trade relations with Pakistan, it indicates that the contract was struck particularly budgetary issues.

The finances of Islamabad are currently under the supervision of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), which has assisted. While negotiations are underway on the extension of this support, Bercy questions the reality of the flexibility of Pakistan to honor a contract of 6 billion euros.

At the Ministry of Defence of Pakistan, Islamabad, was assured, March 24, Le Monde, there was nothing wrong with that contract and that it was hoped that the announcement of the signing would take place at meetings between Gilani and Mr. Sarkozy or Mr. Fillon. "As for money," added one of his spokesmen, this is not the IMF decides what is done. This contract is important for Pakistan, France has its place among us along with the United States and China. "

Finally, another factor that could intervene in this failure, the company OTE has certainly paid his recent presence on the French market. Founded in 1984, South Africa, by Mr. Pizano, a former engineer at Dassault, she previously worked abroad. The market for integrated electronic systems on board aircraft is underdeveloped in France. The French aerospace industry and its spearhead, Dassault, prefer to sell airplanes entirely.

Jacques Follorou

 

[Prometheus]

Noe actually he meant that we have more number of nukes

well , its funny that my pakistani friends jump to showcase greater number of their nukes forgeting that India is 10 times bigger, and they dont have 10 times more nukes.

stick to topic.

News also said that France douts about payments by Pakistan

 

[karan.1970]

How do you know about that, any source??

Total Reserves and gold in Pakistan Treasury - approx 15 billion

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Cost of 1 Rafael approx 100 million..

you do the math...

 

[nwmalik]

another wake up call.
look to the positive side. We will be pushed towards self reliance.
We are here to stay. With or wothout foriegn weapons.
Pakistan Zindabad.

 

[raveolution]

I think we need to understand few things


A) France is going thru a major political disturbance
Mr Sarkozy while being very helpful to Pakistan his
gov is in trouble

B) France has always been there for Pakistan so we honor their
firendship

C) The deal is held up on Pakistani Side not french

Giving credit to Indian lobby is a bit too much as , we are in direct negotiations with France , India is not involved. They probbly had no fart clue of a chance - I mean France and Pakistan we go back ... way back in friendship

If French deal does not goes thru no problem we thank French friends we hope together again sometime ... as our countries are close allies

They have given us Mirages when world said no and those mirages have helped us fight off evil ...and then they also gave us Agosta to give us knowledge how to assemble Submarines ... so and not to mention ammunition for Mirages and Rose Upgrade (@ Time when world shut doors on Pakistan)

But we can easily get 100 J10B , 100 J11 fighters from China
8 billion dollars

The JF17 thunder program was always destined to get AESA radar anyway from China's research laboratories , now we can focus on other things

These planes will be new airframe
These planes will have new avionics
These planes will have new weaponry
These planes will be air superiority and give more power to Pakistan

Meanwhile as soon as the discussion with French move ahead we can also move our thunder project at that point

But we still love France as they have been good friends for Pakistan


May be , We will deal with France again when we need to retire Mirages and Get Rapheal from them 150 Rapheal fighters as per needs of our Airforce

I think the ideal deal for French Friends is we deal with Rapheal project for Pakistan Airforce in 2016, 150 4.5 generation fighters

Mean while , we get Chinese AESA radars for JF17 thunder
Get 100 J10B fighters from China (Chendegu Vipers) 2 Billion
Get 100 J11 fighters from China (Air -Air Superiority Birds) 2 billion

2 Billion invest into Avionics industry in Pakistan & China

1 Billion put it in bank and let intrest incur for downpayment on French Rapheal birds 2015


2015 , we get Rapheal , with AESA from France 150 birds ! retire the Mirage but show respect to our friends from France by inducting Rapheal for Mirages -


We fix the hole in our Airforce now with J1OB , J11 and then in 2015 get Rapheal fighters !!! Cash

Buddy.. sorry to crash your party!

a) Are you saying that the J-10 & J-11 costs 20 million $ per unit? You won't even get the engines and avionics for that amount these days. The fair value per unit would be closer to 40-50 million $ per unit.
b) The PAF has categorically rejected the use of twin-engined aircraft and has already evaluated the J-11 in the past.
c) The cost per unit of a Rafale is close to 90 million $ per unit. If you were to replace 150 Mirages, the cost would be close to 14 billion $.
d) If you put 1 billion $ in a bank account for 5 years (i.e. 2015) it becomes 2 billion $, unless you are assuming someone is giving you a rate of 200% per annum
e) The value of the JF-17 avionics contract was upto 6 billion $, not 8 billion $. It's not like Pak has this money lying around. It would have made payments as per schedule at later dates. A major reason why the French cancelled the deal was that they were unsure of Pak's finances.

You are a well liked member but sometimes your posts are a bit unrealistic. No offence meant and don't take this personally.

 

[sergente rehan]

PAF was doing an order of aprox. 6 billion dollar for JF-17 avionics and PN is going for Marlyn Subs....i don't think it was a bad deal for France...could there be also U.S. pressure?

 

[Iggy]

Excellent diplomatic work by Indian diplomats if the story is true..and for those who say we backstabbed you..kindly tell me how we backstabbed you??we are not buddy buddy in first place and we both are doing everything we can to outsmart each other..Just look at Afgan..it was a diplomatic sucess for you..same goes for us in French case too,..Its better not letting the enemy buy their desired weapons than we buy advances weapons..One thing for sure..if you has the chance and ability you should have done the same thing to us too ..

And for your Italian option..may be orders for more Tankers for Indian Navy will make them change the decision and also Italian-Russian JV submarine is also in the fray for second line of submarines India decided to buy..

 

[Peregrine]

Whats you point?

So are you suggesting that you are the only one with a NUKE?

Hi
No i am ruling out the possibility of any misadventures which some neighbor of ours is very fond of, please read the posts clearly before jumping to grab others throat i have clearly mentioned " confrontation between Nuclear states" have i not? I have tried to portray a warfare in a nuclear environment. MAD (Mutual assured destruction) is a deterrence strategy in which a full-scale use of nuclear weapons by two opposing sides would effectively result in the destruction of both the attacker and the defender......So sane states don't even go for any such confrontation which might escalate to a hot war in nuclear environment. Now look carefully i have mentioned use by two sides not one.....

So my point is these fighter jets, frigates SAM's etc are just the appetizers of this Sabre-rattling the real deal is Nuclear bomb