JF-17 French Avionics Deal On Hold/Cancelled

[AKHaider]

I think from a Strategic point of view , Pakistan needs to give France a BIG real contract not this rinky dinky avionics upgrades

Look we have 192 Mirages, we need to get rid of these 192 mirages by 2018 , 2015 we sign deal with french to get 150 Rapheal with the AESA radar , and may be 50 Rapheal option for being built in Pakistan I doubt France would object

1) It shows the respect for french for sticking out with us
2) It builds on mutal trust and friendship we share
3) We get AESA
4) We get 4.5 generation fighter
5) France gets major contract for its fighters and more R&D

This is a real deal !!!

JF17 thunder I would be ok if we get Chinese - AESA on it and Chinese avionics on Block 2

Our deal makers don't know how to communicate with people on strategic matters - if I was involved we would already have 2 Merlines being build in Pakistan Shipyards, and we would be talking about Rapheals being made in France for Pakistani Airforce as we speak

And we order 100 J10B from China and 100 J11B from China to show our faith in Chinese Friends and we already are building AWACs in cooperation with China ~

Rapheal is our 4.5 Generation bird we need it 2015

Wow, this one takes the cake!

Who pays for these 150 Rafales? Even our cash rich neighbour India is having second thoughts about having such an expensive fighter in their MMRCA race. And you want Pakistan to buy 150 such fighters!

I would say that our money would be better utilized to feed & resettle our IDPs & building up education & social infrastructure.

Our economy is already like a patient that is being kept alive by heavy dosage of glucose & you want this patient to get into a ring & fight? Its good that we won't be paying so much to France after all. This money could be well spent on educating our youth, so that 20 years down the line we become self sufficient in every aspect.

 

[Mahakaya]

Hi
No i am ruling out the possibility of any misadventures which some neighbor of ours is very fond of, please read the posts clearly before jumping to grab others throat i have clearly mentioned " confrontation between Nuclear states" have i not? I have tried to portray a warfare in a nuclear environment. MAD (Mutual assured destruction) is a deterrence strategy in which a full-scale use of nuclear weapons by two opposing sides would effectively result in the destruction of both the attacker and the defender......So sane states don't even go for any such confrontation which might escalate to a hot war in nuclear environment. Now look carefully i have mentioned use by two sides not one.....

So my point is these fighter jets, frigates SAM's etc are just the appetizers of this Sabre-rattling the real deal is Nuclear bomb

Which is exactly what my point was - A deterrent is not only for India but also for Pakistan.

On the other hand why is it that Pakistan thinks that India does everything keeping ONLY AND ONLY PAKISTAN in her mind?

Also regarding the deterrent - please read my point on PAD and AAD and understand that in the event of a Nuclear War and if what the scientists conclude after testing the interceptor is true, then the consequences will be worse than expected for the Aggressor or the nation with first strike policy given that side does not have interceptors!

 

[Mahakaya]

Wow, this one takes the cake!

Who pays for these 150 Rafales? Even our cash rich neighbour India is having second thoughts about having such an expensive fighter in their MMRCA race. And you want Pakistan to buy 150 such fighters!

I would say that our money would be better utilized to feed & resettle our IDPs & building up education & social infrastructure.

Our economy is already like a patient that is being kept alive by heavy dosage of glucose & you want this patient to get into a ring & fight? Its good that we won't be paying so much to France after all. This money could be well spent on educating our youth, so that 20 years down the line we become self sufficient in every aspect.

A very SOUND and RATIONAL thought - I think Pakistan needs its youth to weed out the BABUS that is filling its pockets brushing aside the needs or basic institutions for a flourishing economy.

Also, your country can do much better than India in terms of meeting the needs of the population once it starts growing. We in India suffer from a massive population problem and the affects of reforms in this sector will take a lot of time to reach the intended sectors of the population.

 

[SQ8]

A lot of tests gave a lot of rosy details about a lot of weapons in a lot of wars, when push came to shove they did not deliver.
Pk's are very nice figures( the R-77 has excellent ones, but since none have been fired repeatedly like the Amraam these figures count for crap,otherwise if figures were to be believed the pk for the lockheed THAAD was around 98%, and that thing still has to achieve success in a proper test), so are estimated warheads and capabilities(when was the last time you predicted a sex workers tally?). But using predictive statistics is like using a rail to support to argument, instead of making at stand on its own.
Unfortunately, for actual statistics to be generated there will just have to be a nuclear exchange. If you survive it and I also live, please let us know the actual statistical figures for the AAD and PAD.
Now, till that happens would you and the other fellow proposing a nuclear death for me please return to the topic. So I can too.

Thanks

P.s
Refer to the topic regarding the recent thread about India's diplomatic woes vis a vis Pakistan. If those were the equivalent to diplomatic pinches for India then this counts as a diplomatic sucker punch for Pakistan.
Indian lobby or not, we are a very poor nation which has nuclear weapons but cant solve its energy crises. The IMF is having a meeting on us as faculty members do for a poor performing student.The greatest achievement we had the past week was renaming a province .All this while trying to compete in an arms race.

The simple fact is that we went into a deal with a nation that will sell you the presidents wife for cash with nothing in the bank, and are still upset about why we cant have the expensive toy even if our cheques bounce.

 

[mughaljee]

I really feel sad, after hearing this news.
why France refuse about this.?

 

[Peregrine]

Which is exactly what my point was - A deterrent is not only for India but also for Pakistan.

On the other hand why is it that Pakistan thinks that India does everything keeping ONLY AND ONLY PAKISTAN in her mind?

Also regarding the deterrent - please read my point on PAD and AAD and understand that in the event of a Nuclear War and if what the scientists conclude after testing the interceptor is true, then the consequences will be worse than expected for the Aggressor or the nation with first strike policy given that side does not have interceptors!

Hi
dude what is with you dragging India like that, please read the line carefully where i mention MAD and after wards i didn't specify any belligerents i mentioned attacker and defender.
That's the way things are & O 'please don't mention that PAD and AAD's are a perfect deterrence, if that was the case USA & Israel wont be itching to stop Iran, that's the reality what you are quoting is based on theory which is not even credible
Anyways my whole point of bringing nukes in discussion was in reply to one of your compatriot who was enjoying this jf-17 deal halt/cancellation as if India has won world cup, so do i really think jf-17 french deal is a set back? may be for Pakistan air force modernization process but not for Pakistan defense on the whole

 

[sergente rehan]

Excellent diplomatic work by Indian diplomats if the story is true..and for those who say we backstabbed you..kindly tell me how we backstabbed you??we are not buddy buddy in first place and we both are doing everything we can to outsmart each other..Just look at Afgan..it was a diplomatic sucess for you..same goes for us in French case too,..Its better not letting the enemy buy their desired weapons than we buy advances weapons..One thing for sure..if you has the chance and ability you should have done the same thing to us too ..

And for your Italian option..may be orders for more Tankers for Indian Navy will make them change the decision and also Italian-Russian JV submarine is also in the fray for second line of submarines India decided to buy..

So you are saying that india can put presure on the entire world and nobody is going to sell anything to Pakistan and we are getting isolated from the world?
Every country seeks it's interest in the deals with it customers, not everytime diplomacy works. You don't know yet the huge programs which are ongoing in Pakistan from the Italian goverment and companies. Espescially in civil sectors and indian tried to pull the leg but it didn't work, even in the civil sector india is trying to obstacle us but they don't realize that it's not quite possible for them to isolate Pakistan from the rest of the world.

 

[Mahakaya]

You guys got my posts wrong:

Neither am I proposing a nuclear war - nor am I suggesting that PAD and AAD are 100% successful. But I have no reason to doubt the scientists too.

@ Peregrine - You obviously meant India. As for your assessment on Iran, it is more of a geo political issue and has no relation to THAAD.

And it is not the United States but the ISRAELI lobby inside of the United States who is responsible for the opposition cos they stand to lose the most in case Iran goes nuclear. You think Iran will nuke US and US will be sitting idle.

The US has equipment that can probably monitor a Nuke from the time it takes off - you think it will ever reach the US?

Get real man!

 

[Peregrine]

So you are saying that india can put presure on the entire world and nobody is going to sell anything to Pakistan and we are getting isolated from the world?
Every country seeks it's interest in the deals with it customers, not everytime diplomacy works. You don't know yet the huge programs which are ongoing in Pakistan from the Italian goverment and companies. Espescially in civil sectors and indian tried to pull the leg but it didn't work, even in the civil sector india is trying to obstacle us but they don't realize that it's not quite possible for them to isolate Pakistan from the rest of the world.

Hi
but don't u think its about time that Pakistan thought about improving Diplomacy, especially in Middle East, and believe me with some generals and politicians running these diplomatic missions that was imminent.
Jahanzaib Khan is probably the first DMG officer to get an ambassadorial assignment and that too in one of the most important capitals in the world(Paris)
Look at this the guy is not even a qualified diplomat

 

[Choppers]

I really feel sad, after hearing this news.
why France refuse about this.?

Dil Pe Haath rakho and bolo ALL IZZ WELL ALL IZZ WELL

 

[Peregrine]

You guys got my posts wrong:

Neither am I proposing a nuclear war - nor am I suggesting that PAD and AAD are 100% successful. But I have no reason to doubt the scientists too.

@ Peregrine - You obviously meant India. As for your assessment on Iran, it is more of a geo political issue and has no relation to THAAD.

And it is not the United States but the ISRAELI lobby inside of the United States who is responsible for the opposition cos they stand to lose the most in case Iran goes nuclear. You think Iran will nuke US and US will be sitting idle.

The US has equipment that can probably monitor a Nuke from the time it takes off - you think it will ever reach the US?

Get real man!

Hi
i think i have a realistic approach that is why i quote with solid examples its you who has been quoting with subjective judgments, i didn't say anything regarding Iran attacking USA( u just assumed that ur self) i just mentioned that USA is all hell bent on preventing Iran, and the whole world knows it. you can assume what ever u like

 

[Dil Pakistan]

France says arms sale to Pakistan held up

Saturday, April 03, 2010
PARIS: France’s plan to sell 1.2 billion euro worth of military equipment for Pakistan’s JF-17 combat aircraft has been held up, a source at President Nicolas Sarkozy’s office said on Friday.

Newspaper Le Monde had reported earlier that France decided to suspend the sale of electronics and missiles — the first section of a 6 billion euro contract — under pressure from India and uncertainty over Pakistan’s finances. “It’s a deal that’s not ready from the Pakistani side,” the source said, without giving further details. “For now, the state of the dossier doesn’t allow us to carry on with it.”

A consortium made up of French company ATE, arms group Thales and missile manufacturer MBDA was supposed to produce the equipment, Le Monde said. Thales declined to comment. France was also worried over insufficient protection of its technology, with Pakistan pushing to assemble the equipment on its soil, the paper said. In February, MBDA said it planned to upgrade India’s Mirage2000 fighters and was looking to expand in India.

ABOVE IS FROM JANG NEWS TODAY. I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING TO NEGOTIATE AS WELL. IF THE FRENCH ARE WORRIED ABOUT ASSEMBLING OF THEIR TECHNOLOGY ON PAKISTANI SOIL, THEN THIS CAN BE DISCUSSED (PROBABLY IN P.M. GILANI'S VISIT). I THINK THE GOVT. OF PAKISTAN NEEDS TO TAKE THE FRONT ROLE HERE TO SORT IT OUT.

 

[Mani2020]

Dil Pe Haath rakho and bolo ALL IZZ WELL ALL IZZ WELL

You can laugh as today is urs day but dun forget everyone has his/her chance ,its nature and rules belong to the nature not to people lyk u or me ,Tomorrow will be our day thn we will laugh

BTW its not the end of the world if we can made jf-17 along with china thn we can also improve it its not lyk 1980's where we were at the mercy of US and Europe ,the world has chagned now so dose the geo politics and everyone knows that power is tilting on which side ...

So those kids who just see short term things and start jumping lyk monkeys cant b complained about it coz at the end of the day they are kids with childish mind...

The war is not over yet nor its the end of the day for us...

People say,say and they will keep saying bad things about us but we ignored ,ignored and keep ignoring them People said alot when US embargoed in 1980's but look we are still standing,standing tall ,its our bad patch and it will b over soon INSHALLAH

80's embargo resulted in jf-17 so w8ing for wat's next to happen

We have survive out of all the odd and we are here to survive we will INSHALLAH survive and the world will see
As the PAF emblem says

WE SHALL RISE FROM THE ASHES

So keep your fingers crossed we have lot more left in the tank

 

[Mahakaya]

Hi
i think i have a realistic approach that is why i quote with solid examples its you who has been quoting with subjective judgments, i didn't say anything regarding Iran attacking USA( u just assumed that ur self) i just mentioned that USA is all hell bent on preventing Iran, and the whole world knows it. you can assume what ever u like

For Solid examples - What suggesting that billions poured into THAAD - it is useless - then why even bother mass producing it?

No country is stupid to build a missile defense system and then despite knowing that it is useless, to go ahead and mass produce it.

As for Assumptions:

What I I did is called making an inference and not an assumption. I am using the premises you state to come to a conclusion thats it.

Nevermind - Think what you want!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

just tooooo much chit chat conspiracy gup shup talk show going on here. too sad for me to know that this is being done by most of the pakistanis and indians are just taking this opportunity to make them a laughing stock.

guys just calm down. INDIA DID THIS INDIA DID THAT to thunder project? They told France not to sell pak? Listen! 1.6 billion dollars is not a small amount! France will be happy to seal the deal if pak meet their payment expectation of paying the full amount within their dead line.