JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I can assure you back in 2011 PAF bosses were well aware of BVR tactics and knew the limitations. That being said this video is very biased and impartial to knowing the USAF tactics (which are the best in the world) and then applying them in a limited scenario. Aiming low and high is something practiced from the 80s when the old two ship formations were abandoned in favor of a more independent wingman.
you don’t dive down just to get the missile to follow you put it on the beam and then dive down to get it into thicker air(and increased friction/drag). However, that is where missiles that can loft themselves like the Amraam and others have the advantage that they don’t follow you immediately. Russian systems haven’t gotten the loft profile in yet but the Chinese are following that profile.

But
The caveat isn’t the PAF bosses knowing this but the new greenhorn in a JF-17. Learning and experience is everything which also applies to decisions made in the heat of battle and why Hassan Siddiquis su-30 claim is taken with lesser regard in terms of pilot understanding of weapons system than wgcdr Nauman’s takedown of the Mig-21.

Today’s PAF pilot has to be exceptionally smart and natural strategist. Both capable and enabled to make independent and collective decisions based upon merit of the decision rather than rank.
#2 &4 of a flight will be providing input into positioning for an attack as much as the lead and suggesting different strategies.

In a way the PAF has made the smarter decision to invest in BvR before weapons for the merge such as HOBS missiles and HMDs because they saw the chess game developing back then - and tested the SD-10 against the AIM-120C and found the performance equivalent.

It would be interesting since the push off system adds a bit of weight versus just sliding off a rail.

To the PAF's credit, it tried getting HMD/S and HOBS earlier on. E.g., the PAF tried getting AIM-9X and IRIS-T for the F-16, but in both cases, the U.S. clogged the attempt. Likewise, getting an off-the-shelf HMD/S for the JF-17 was impossible, forcing the PAF to wait on the Chinese or someone else to come up with an entirely original solution.

I think the PAF generally understands what it needs to do, but it's usually undercut by factors outside of its control.

The only thing I think the PAF had brushed aside (until now apparently) is IRST. However, even then, I think it was likely due to not seeing enough of a net-new benefit over TDL, BVR, et.al versus the cost of having to add it earlier in the pipeline.

 

[untitled]

IRIS-T for the F-16, but in both cases, the U.S. clogged the attempt

What happened here? How did the US block the IRIS-T missile?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

What happened here? How did the US block the IRIS-T missile?

They blocked its integration to the F-16s.

 

[untitled]

They blocked its integration to the F-16s.

But the Norwegians already have integrated it on their F-16s.

It's naval version would have worked well for our Agostas too

 

[SQ8]

So I have brought this up a number of time. I personally believe the only thing we are lacking for A2A missiles is the right rocket motor. Otherwise, Alhamdulillah, today we have composite manufacturing available for the body, along with aluminum casting as needed. We also have experience with very accurate guidance systems, as I have discussed here:

The curious case of Nasr's terminal guidance

Per videos released recently, the Pakistani Nasr missile is a high precision, tactical ballistic missile. The videos show the missile being fired at a slant of 45 degrees, and hitting designated targets in the presence of stiff wind conditions with pin point accuracy. What is confusing is the...

defence.pk

As far as the rocket motor technology is considered, we are lagging behind in materials and chemical engineering. And a first step might be off-the-shelf acquisition, possibly from Brazil or South Africa? Meanwhile, PAC should try to create a knowledge base in these areas. These are the types of initiatives that should be a part of 'Azm.

I have personally seen the CODE for some of the versions of these guidance systems and yes we have the ability to make excellent guidance systems and other firmware/software However, guidance is NOT hardware AESA Radar or other subsystems.

Unless in the past 6 years since I left the country this situation has changed to where we both have fabrication hardware and knowledge base to create this hardware I still see this as a handicap.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

But the Norwegians already have integrated it on their F-16s.

It's naval version would have worked well for our Augostas too

Sorry, I meant, to our F-16s.

 

[Deino]

By the way, this image posted here showing the JF-17 Block 3 to celebrate its first taxi test seems to be a CG and I must admit I still find that centerline PL-15 an strange option.

via @zarrar3d

https://twitter.com/x/status/1477362271911305221

 

[RAMPAGE]

By the way, this image posted here showing the JF-17 Block 3 to celebrate its first taxi test seems to be a CG and I must admit I still find that centerline PL-15 an strange option.

via @zarrar3d

https://twitter.com/x/status/1477362271911305221

View attachment 805207View attachment 805208

I wonder if they have increased internal fuel significantly.

 

[HRK]

By the way, this image posted here showing the JF-17 Block 3 to celebrate its first taxi test seems to be a CG and I must admit I still find that centerline PL-15 an strange option.

via @zarrar3d

https://twitter.com/x/status/1477362271911305221

View attachment 805207View attachment 805208

that CGI I think is a recreation after seeing the pic of JF-17 on the banner, you can see the flag on vertical tail of JF-17 b-III in CGI is placed correct while on the banner it is placed wrong

 

[The Eagle]

By the way, this image posted here showing the JF-17 Block 3 to celebrate its first taxi test seems to be a CG and I must admit I still find that centerline PL-15 an strange option.

via @zarrar3d

https://twitter.com/x/status/1477362271911305221

View attachment 805207View attachment 805208

Once a picture is out, it is on mercy of Legends of Photoshop editing. Now, every source with bit of knowledge about editing, will make one for the self and share it like no other day. Eventually, few of Pakistani accounts are direct competitors to India's media and self gloating breaking news.

 

[Windjammer]

Here's a better image of marking the event and a news report.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1477583203334602752

 

[araz]

@SQ8 @Bilal. @Windjammer @PanzerKiel

F16A/B designation refers to single-seat and twin-seat with GE engine, and
F16C/D designation refers to single-seat and twin-seat with PW engine

If PAF is following the same system then, does
JF-17A/B refer to the single-seat/double seat with RD93, and
JF17C refers to the new RD93MA engine?

All PAF 16s are P&W Engined. A,Cand E refer to different blocks of single seaters and BD&F are twin seaters. USAF makes no differentiations based on engines although GE 16s have a larger inlet ( there is a name for it which I cannot remember). PAC refers to different blocks as 1,2 and 3 and twin seaters are labelled as Bs. Hope this helps.
Regards

 

[Deino]

Here's a better image of marking the event and a news report.


View attachment 805284

https://twitter.com/x/status/1477583203334602752

But I still don't understand, why no images of this event were published!

 

[Windjammer]

But I still don't understand, why no images of this event were published!

Maybe they want to reveal/display it on a special occasion along with other goodies.

 

[Deino]

Maybe they want to reveal/display it on a special occasion along with other goodies.

But they should know, this waiting will kill a certain German enthusiast!