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JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

PAF will depend upon standoff EW jamming, as well as podded-jamming and aerial decoys via JF Block II and J-10C to take on the Rafale in next 2 years. In addition to that, long range sticks will play a bigger role than AIM-120C in any next skirmish. Pakistan's order for WL2 is also coming with its own share of ELINT/ESM gear.

The next skirmish, whenever it takes place within a timeframe of 2 years or so - will be subcontinent's first true use of high-end EW gear b/w two near-peer air forces.
If we get a quarter of a chance to get 16s we will jump at it like a desert dweller coming across a source of fresh sweet water. The 16s will remain a viable option till 2060s.
Not knowing how competitive the J10s are I will not comment on its acquisition, although to me personally it has never made sense other than M3 replacement. However the 16s remain a viable option for PAF in spite of all the strings attached. Given enough pressure US will sell although the money remains a problem.
A
 
If we get a quarter of a chance to get 16s we will jump at it like a desert dweller coming across a source of fresh sweet water. The 16s will remain a viable option till 2060s.
Not knowing how competitive the J10s are I will not comment on its acquisition, although to me personally it has never made sense other than M3 replacement. However the 16s remain a viable option for PAF in spite of all the strings attached. Given enough pressure US will sell although the money remains a problem.
A

I would disagree here

I would strongly discourage any more F16 purchase, no more please we have had enough

as a matter of fact we should now slowly wean ourselves off all American equipment like Turkey has been doing for last 20 years and move to China + Turkey, Turkey is now a super advanced country in terms of military hardware ahead of Europeans in some cases

only reason why F16 got the kill on 27th Feb is because its still the main weapon of choice for PAF simply because of its better situational awareness with Erieye + Falcon EW, it gave the F16 a chance no other aircraft could have and this is why it was at the back of the strike package

however with introduction of the Block III + ASEA it can now have better situational awareness than any F16, especially if we can get the ZDK-03 upgrade done to merge with Block III

the F16 will remain at the core of the PAF offensive strategy only until the Block III numbers are sufficient after that Block III will take this role

remember what the air chief was saying in the latest statements, Block III is a very big deal
 
I don’t think the interception can be avoided - if anything the defense may have the attacking force either abandon mission or trade range for accuracy.
The distance between most “targets” from the border means that the Hammer is a very suitable weapon to attack these targets while staying over own airspace.

Before we get into why the PAF did not intercept the package - what do you suppose the warning time the PAF has for its 2000 mile border with India?
Very little warning time in the world of SOW being used to strike from their side of the border, I would even say zero. I dont see how our radars can pick up store separation from aircraft in their territory, we will only know of the strike when munition lands in Pakistan. So I dont understand why you say the interception cann't be avoided when you are at the same time saying SOW from their side can be used.

So if we are agreed that interception is near impossible in the given scenario, I ask my question again, What makes you say their pilots were nervous during the strike?
 
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JF-17 b3 carries far more than that meets the eye and a lot of bangs to the bucks. It has integrated F35 Like technologies except stealth. It shines more a part of the team than a solo heavyweight in the changing war paradigms of net centric air operations. Once fully operational it can easily blow out any 4th gen fighter in the sky and Indian rafale is no exception to this que.
 
JF-17 b3 carries far more than that meets the eye and a lot of bangs to the bucks. It has integrated F35 Like technologies except stealth. It shines more a part of the team than a solo heavyweight in the changing war paradigms of net centric air operations. Once fully operational it can easily blow out any 4th gen fighter in the sky and Indian rafale is no exception to this que.

JF-17 Thunder Block-3 is Just a 4th Gen fighter like other 4th Gen fighters such as Su-30 MKIs and Rafales.

It's main benefit to Pakistan is that it's Pakistani and Pakistanis can churn out whatever number Pakistanis need without any strings attached... that's during war time and peace time.
 
It's main benefit to Pakistan is that it's Pakistani and Pakistanis can churn out whatever number Pakistanis need without any strings attached... that's during war time and peace time.
JF-17 is an answer to all impending threats to Pakistan including whatever Indian Got from all over the world
 
JF-17 is an answer to all impending threats to Pakistan including whatever Indian Got from all over the world

Aerial threats against Pakistan they've acquired "from all over the world" are mainly the Su-30 MKIs and Rafales - both 4th Gen aircraft for which Pakistan has acquired the JF-17 Thunders in three blocks. Just need to reach that magical number of 200 as soon as possible.

If India had acquired the F-35 (which I think is their medium-term goal), now that would be a proper threat that Pakistan wouldn't have an immediate answer for. Luckily for Pakistan, I think India would not be acquiring these until the 2030s unless there are seismic geopolitical shifts in the region before then.
 
I would disagree here

I would strongly discourage any more F16 purchase, no more please we have had enough

as a matter of fact we should now slowly wean ourselves off all American equipment like Turkey has been doing for last 20 years and move to China + Turkey, Turkey is now a super advanced country in terms of military hardware ahead of Europeans in some cases

only reason why F16 got the kill on 27th Feb is because its still the main weapon of choice for PAF simply because of its better situational awareness with Erieye + Falcon EW, it gave the F16 a chance no other aircraft could have and this is why it was at the back of the strike package

however with introduction of the Block III + ASEA it can now have better situational awareness than any F16, especially if we can get the ZDK-03 upgrade done to merge with Block III

the F16 will remain at the core of the PAF offensive strategy only until the Block III numbers are sufficient after that Block III will take this role

remember what the air chief was saying in the latest statements, Block III is a very big deal
Hi.
Thank you for your response.
Block 3 is a very big deal however who can say with any assurance it is good enough to deter the IAF from a misadventure like an updated fleet of 16s can? I am looking at the current fleet of the PAF and I see no way around the 16 issue for various reasons.
A. Ready trained pilots.
B. Familiarity with the platform and 3 decades of experience.
C. A stated need for the platform to remain with us till 2050 if not longer.
So if you look at it realistically it is THE viable option unless it is totally denied to us.
What you are suggesting now requires new infrastructure build up of another 4th generation platform which could well take us/another decade to get used to the way we have gotten used to the 16s. The time and generation of fighters is about to change so by the time we get used to it it may well start becoming obsolete as the mirages have now become. The only reason for retaining the M3/5s is availability of spares and trained manpower as well as a designated niche role. To do that to the 16s would make sense as we already have a sizeable fleet but to get a newer platform does not make sense to me at least.
Moving towards Turkey and China is fine but realistically it is only China that can fulfill our needs in the aviation sector. I would say even China will start looking after its interests and these may not always coincide. The T129 saga has taught us one lesson to not go for a multi vendor product which stands for what most of Turkish products are so Turkey in aviation sector will not be very helpful.
Short of 5th gen/quasi 5th gen platform which both China and Turkey are currently not fielding there is no advantage in going to the two at the moment.
I am/sure the prospect of sanction will rear its head but I ask you how effective will a sanction be when you have a fleet of 100+ platforms be with a thriving spares market(even a black market). You can safeguard your interests by small parts manufacturing contract and the fact that the US hae moved on from the 16s to 22/35s make it less likely that sanctions will be a problem.
One other factor that will be raised is the US cazying up to Dhotiland. Whereas that is true the 27/02 fiasco has assured us the US will not have any qualms about the loss of a few( thousand) dhotis or Shalwars. The US LOOKS AFTER its own interests and the prospect of an AMRAAM taking down another platform is the best publicity for them. Their pats on the back of the PAF contingent at the time of IK visit to US was a testament to that.
So in my humble opinion while the thought of moving away from the US is all good in principle the realityof it is we are at least 1-1.5 decades away from it. It makes sense (proviso of availability being a big if!!) to stick with the types we have and wait for our 5th generation offering. The fate of Pakistan is tied to having credible deterrence at a modest cost while increasing its purchasing power. J10 is not the answer to that conundrum.
Kind regards
A
JF-17 b3 carries far more than that meets the eye and a lot of bangs to the bucks. It has integrated F35 Like technologies except stealth. It shines more a part of the team than a solo heavyweight in the changing war paradigms of net centric air operations. Once fully operational it can easily blow out any 4th gen fighter in the sky and Indian rafale is no exception to this que.
As far as I am concerned these accolades are a bit premature. So respectfully we need to wait till the platform is inducted and we have a better idea about its capqbilities from PAF itself. The ACM in his recent speech talked about Block2 doing well against the Chinese platforms but how well and in what specific spheres against what capabilities from the other side.
Let us be patient. We will know one way or another. I am as excited about block 3 as everyone else is but safety and objectivity demands evaluation and that has not yet happened.
Regards
 
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Hi.
Thank you for your response.
Block 3 is a very big deal however who can say with any assurance it is good enough to deter the IAF from a misadventure like an updated fleet of 16s can? Iam looking at the current fleet of the PAF and I see no way around the 16 issue for various reasons.
A. Ready trained pilots.
B. Familiarity with the platform and 3 decades of experience.
C. A stated need for the platform to remain with us till 2050 if not longer.
So if you look at it realistically it is THE viable option unless it is totally denied to us.
What you are suggesting now requires new infrastructure build up of another 4th generation platform which could well take us/another decade to get used to the way we have gotten used to the 16s. The time and generation of fighters is about to change so by the time we vet used to it it may well start becoming obsolete as the amirages have now become. The only reason for retaining the M3/5s is availability of spares and trained manpower as well as a designated niche role. To do that to the 16s would make sense as we already have a sizeable fleet but to get a newer platform does not make sense to me at least.
Moving towards Turkey and China is fine but realistically it is only China that can fulfill our needs in the aviation sector. I would say even China will start looking after its interests and these may not always coincide. The T129 saga has taught us one lesson to not go for a multi vendor product which stands for what most of Turkish products are so Turkey in aviation sector will not be very helpful.
Short of 5th gen/quasi 5th gen platform which both China and Turkey are currently not fielding there is no advantage in going to the two at the moment.
I am/sure the prospect of sanction will rear its head but I ask you how effective will a sanction be when you have a fleet of 100+ platforms be with a thriving spares market(even a black market). You can safeguard your interests by small parts manufacturing contract and the fact that the US hae moved on from the 16s to 22/35s make it less likely that sanctions will ne a problem.
One other factor that will rear its head is the US cazying up to Dhotiland. Whereas that is true the 27/02 fiasco has assured us the US will not have any qualms about the loss of a few( tbousand) dhotis or Shalwars. The US LOOKS AFTER its own interests and the prospect of an AMRAAM taking down anotber platform is the best publicity for them. Their pats on the back of the PAF contingent at the time of IK visit to US was a testament to that.
So in my humble opinion while the thought of moving away from the US is all good in principle the realityof it is we are at least 1-1.5 decades away from it. It makes sense( proviso of availability being a big if!!) to stick with the types-we have and wait for our 5th generation offering. The fate of Pakistan is tied to having credible deterrence at a modest cost while increasing its purchasing power. J10 is not the answer to that conundrum.
Kind regards
A

As far as I am concerned these accolades are a bit premature. So respectfully we need to wait till the platform is inducted and we have a better idea about its capqbilities from PAF itself. The ACM in his recent speech talked about Block2 doing well against ghe Chinese platforms but how well and in what specific spheres against what capabilities from the other side.
Let us-be patient. We will know one way or another. Iam as excited about block 3 as everyone is but safety and objectivity demands evaluation and that has not yet hqppened.
Regards

yes I would agree with that

Also as long as we have a great marketing manger like Abhinandan the JF17 will continue to succeed well into the future:-)
 
yes I would agree with that

Also as long as we have a great marketing manger like Abhinandan the JF17 will continue to succeed well into the future:-)
You never know the next tome they will go crying to the Chinese holding another exploded mijjile of Chinese origin plucked out of another of their platforms.
A
 
... I see no way around the 16 issue for various reasons. ...
B. Familiarity with the platform and 3 decades of experience. ...

Why is this constant emphasis portrayed about Pakistani pilots having some alien experience over the F-16s?

Did the PAF need 3 decades of experience with the F-16s before they decided to confront an air force belonging a superpower? Its just another 4th Gen fighter of it's class.
 
Why is this constant emphasis portrayed about Pakistani pilots having some alien experience over the F-16s?

Did the PAF need 3 decades of experience with the F-16s before they decided to confront an air force belonging a superpower? Its just another 4th Gen fighter of it's class.
The familiarity with a platform makes a pilot use the platform to its best. This more than anything else is what 3 decades teaches you.
A
 
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The familiarity with a platform makes a pilot use the platform to its best. This more than anyrhing else is what 3 decades teaches you.
A

Each pilot has a limited service life and he/she has to learn from the beginning with each platform.

I would like to see some results of exercises between PAF F-16s vs PAF JF-17s and see which comes out on top.
 
JF-17 Thunder Block-3 is Just a 4th Gen fighter like other 4th Gen fighters such as Su-30 MKIs and Rafales.

It's main benefit to Pakistan is that it's Pakistani and Pakistanis can churn out whatever number Pakistanis need without any strings attached... that's during war time and peace time.

During war-time, wouldn't factories for entities like POF and PAC be prime targets for the Indians?
 
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