JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[khanasifm]

Block III can have stations like j-10 plus two new one under wing like f-16 bringing total to 13 ie 8 on wings one centerline
And 4 on fuselage like typhoon and Rafael ??

 

[The Eagle]

Block III can have stations like j-10 plus two new one under wing like f-16 bringing total to 13 ie 8 on wings one centerline
And 4 on fuselage like typhoon and Rafael ??

View attachment 581589

Do you think that it's way too heavy for a lighter weight category aircraft like Thunder? Beside that it will need a more powerful engine and I am not even talking about all the electric, hardware and structuring smith work.

 

[khanasifm]

Extra pylons does not mean exceeding existing max or external limit of 4000kg plus ie 4300 kg max by distribution of weapons on extra hardpoints

Anyway newer platform are all 10 or 10 plus Hp including Gripen

I guess pac/Cac is working on it for block 3 time will tell

ACM tanvir mentioned in 2007/8 time interview comparing jf with other platforms

The interview was with kamram Khan show on jf

 

[khanasifm]

http://www.dtbtest.com/pdfs/mil-std-8591.pdf

 

[The Eagle]

Increase of HP is interested and many will like to see such improvement in that particularly. Having 13 HPs was the reason to ask.

However, we might witness 10 in total.

 

[Silicon0000]

You can see that thread is half of the measuring contest and gone to comparison fest than discussion on the topic in hand. Once, they have exhausted, unnecessary posts will vanish and thread will be merged. As you asked for the reason; that was expected, therefore, left it separate so that Block-III sticky thread can be saved of all those off-topic (A V/s B) discussion.

Agreed and Thanks Dear.

It could be either; but in present framework, block iv is a guarantee. lot of improvements post block 3 will be realised

In my guess, Only if Azm fighter got delayed or go parallel to the JF17 then their will be block-4 otherwise JF17 will go for MLU route after Block-3.

 

[Thorough Pro]

12 is too few, it should be at least 24............... did you got wiser? I don't think so! probably your marker dried up finally.

Block III can have stations like j-10 plus two new one under wing like f-16 bringing total to 13 ie 8 on wings one centerline
And 4 on fuselage like typhoon and Rafael ??

View attachment 581589

 

[Trango Towers]

'Blk 3 comparable to f16 blk52 in important aspects'

Elaboration requested.

Ok the article says f16 V and you are still stuck at block 52. Some Pakistanis have a hard time buying anything desi. They even want imported paan

I doubt that. That would mean we have started to manufacture F16 blk52 capability in house in less than half the price.

In simple words: (common sense)
Reduced price = reduced capability.

We have raised the bar quite high for ourselves. Jf17 is the first jet our aviation industry is (to an extent) manufacturing in house and to expect a first timer to deliver a package as potent as Lockhead Martin is an unreaslistic demand.

We forget that JFTs were meant to replace aging Mirages and F7PGs. A replacement of that sort can't match F16blk52's capability this early on in its career.

Reduced price = reduced capability... so engineer man hours cost the same in pakistan as they do in the usa...for Gods sake think ⁴

Block III can have stations like j-10 plus two new one under wing like f-16 bringing total to 13 ie 8 on wings one centerline
And 4 on fuselage like typhoon and Rafael ??

View attachment 581589

R u sure that's a lot of work

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Sir it is not that easy to decide. An AK47 in the hands of a newbie will be useless if he goes against a trained commando with a knife in his hand. There are no objective studies of each system carried out by neutral experts. In fact, no OEM provides are details hence anyone making tall claims that this system is superior to this and that... is simply lying.

Very true sir

 

[khanasifm]

Increase of HP is interested and many will like to see such improvement in that particularly. Having 13 HPs was the reason to ask.

However, we might witness 10 in total.

Ten means two new under wing and single under intake for pod ??

 

[Sine Nomine]

As such, F-22A and F-35A pack so much raw power and artificial intelligence within that they will literally disable-kill a lesser aircraft in WVR situations.

We are talking only about kinematics,sensor suit of F-22&35 is much like an airborne super computer.

 

[PakAlp]

COULD A WESTERN RADAR WORK ON THE JF-17?

The centerpiece of the JF-17 Block 3, the upcoming (and most extensive) development of the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) backbone fighter aircraft, will be its active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

With the PAF Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Mujahid Anwar Khan, expressing hope for inducting the Block 3 in March 2020[1], the PAF is expected to decide on a radar by the end of 2019.

The leading candidates are the Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology (NRIET) KLJ-7A, Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute (LETRI) LKF601E, and Leonardo Grifo-E. Though the PAF is largely expected to select a Chinese AESA radar, the Grifo-E is, reportedly, still a factor.

The Grifo-E’s continuing inclusion in the mix is interesting because Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) had reportedly stated that it did not expect the PAF to select a Western AESA radar. AVIC’s rationale was that neither party would share its respective source-codes.[2]

If this is still the case, then the PAF’s reported interest in the Grifo-E would imply that it is interested in a Western air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions suite. If not, then the Grifo-E would suggest that the PAF has an alternative route, perhaps a third-party (i.e., non-European and non-Chinese) source.

Background on the Leonardo Grifo-E

The Grifo-E uses an undisclosed number of gallium nitride (GaN)-based transmit/receive modules (TRM). Compared to older gallium arsenide (GaA)-based TRMs, GaN-based TRMs are more energy efficient, and can offer better performance/output as well as a longer lifecycle.

In promoting its own GaN technology, Saab outlined that GaN-based AESA radars would enable for small and lightweight fighters to deploy high-performance AESA radars. In other words, GaN would help offset limitations in internal space, weight, and power-consumption requirements.

In terms of the radar’s performance, Leonardo outlined that the Grifo-E can track 24 targets in its track-while-scan (TWS) mode. It can track “fighter-sized targets” at over 138 km in track formation range mode, and 157 km-plus in look-up detection range mode. In its air-to-air mode, the Grifo-E can track up to eight targets. In addition, the Grifo-E has simultaneous air-to-air and air-to-surface modes.

In its specification sheet, Leonardo also lists a large number of other features, including synthetic aperture radar (SAR) with ground-moving target-indication (GMTI), sea surface search and track, inverse SAR, air-to-ground ranging, and other capabilities. It also features core AESA radar capabilities, such as elevated resistance to electronic warfare (EW) and electronic countermeasures (ECM)…

https://quwa.org/2019/09/28/could-a-western-radar-work-on-the-jf-17-2/

 

[Dazzler]

COULD A WESTERN RADAR WORK ON THE JF-17?

The centerpiece of the JF-17 Block 3, the upcoming (and most extensive) development of the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) backbone fighter aircraft, will be its active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

With the PAF Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Mujahid Anwar Khan, expressing hope for inducting the Block 3 in March 2020[1], the PAF is expected to decide on a radar by the end of 2019.

The leading candidates are the Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology (NRIET) KLJ-7A, Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute (LETRI) LKF601E, and Leonardo Grifo-E. Though the PAF is largely expected to select a Chinese AESA radar, the Grifo-E is, reportedly, still a factor.

The Grifo-E’s continuing inclusion in the mix is interesting because Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) had reportedly stated that it did not expect the PAF to select a Western AESA radar. AVIC’s rationale was that neither party would share its respective source-codes.[2]

If this is still the case, then the PAF’s reported interest in the Grifo-E would imply that it is interested in a Western air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions suite. If not, then the Grifo-E would suggest that the PAF has an alternative route, perhaps a third-party (i.e., non-European and non-Chinese) source.

Background on the Leonardo Grifo-E

The Grifo-E uses an undisclosed number of gallium nitride (GaN)-based transmit/receive modules (TRM). Compared to older gallium arsenide (GaA)-based TRMs, GaN-based TRMs are more energy efficient, and can offer better performance/output as well as a longer lifecycle.

In promoting its own GaN technology, Saab outlined that GaN-based AESA radars would enable for small and lightweight fighters to deploy high-performance AESA radars. In other words, GaN would help offset limitations in internal space, weight, and power-consumption requirements.

In terms of the radar’s performance, Leonardo outlined that the Grifo-E can track 24 targets in its track-while-scan (TWS) mode. It can track “fighter-sized targets” at over 138 km in track formation range mode, and 157 km-plus in look-up detection range mode. In its air-to-air mode, the Grifo-E can track up to eight targets. In addition, the Grifo-E has simultaneous air-to-air and air-to-surface modes.

In its specification sheet, Leonardo also lists a large number of other features, including synthetic aperture radar (SAR) with ground-moving target-indication (GMTI), sea surface search and track, inverse SAR, air-to-ground ranging, and other capabilities. It also features core AESA radar capabilities, such as elevated resistance to electronic warfare (EW) and electronic countermeasures (ECM)…

https://quwa.org/2019/09/28/could-a-western-radar-work-on-the-jf-17-2/

Grifo-E without AMRAAM or Meteor would take away the punch from the blk-3. China wont share source codes of pl-15, sd-10 and pl-10 wvr. Hence, Grifo-E may likely share the same fate as the famous Grifo-S7

 

[serenity]

Sorry but PAF still need the JF-17 to fight WVR. Radar, electronics, and missiles by themselves cannot win all the time for Pakistan against India. This is because India is right next to Pakistan and Pakistan is not a very large sized country which means some close range fights will eventually happen. If India pushes forwards with most of their airforce, eventually the fight will become close range.

This is partly why PAF does not really need huge range twin engine fighters like Su-30 even if number of missiles they can carry is a good advantage.

For JF-17's movement in the air is good enough against most of IAF but for their Su-30, Mig-29, Rafale, and maybe some Mirage. This is why PAF still need F-16 and modern F-16s. JF-17 cannot replace F-16 in PAF because its thrust does not promise it can win in dogfight against the IAF dogfighting stars.

JF-17 will receive PL-10 with helmet cuing to make things better. Higher thrust engine and lower net weight from more composite applications but the prices will go up significantly. They need to figure out a balance against new threat of Rafale. PAF strategy is probably buying F-16 upgrades and using with new JF-17 which has AESA, PL-15 + PL-10 and helmet cuing. AWACs and ECM/ESM is not much of a problem because IAF is incredibly behind in these electronic areas.

If JF-17 III get into WVR fight against something like Su-30 or Mig-29 or Mirage or Rafale, it becomes issue for pilot skills and fuel load. If energy is on Indian side, JF-17 is finished. If JF-17 luckily has a lot of fuel to burn for height or speed then it has good chance. PL-10 with helmet tracking is also going to help but block III will try to avoid this fight for as long as possible and carry PL-15/PL-12 to shoot at BVR. But when a dogfight happens, hopefully it is with favorable entry conditions. The big downside for JF-17 is fuel capacity. It needs at least center fuel tank to go into fights and during dogfight must drop it. Even if it can win a dogfight, it may not have enough fuel to get back to airbase.

 

[Dazzler]

The rear fuselage in bright yellow, strengthened for some reason. I suspect RD-93 is tweaked again perhaps.