Jerusalem Prophecy Unfolding - Temple Mount Takeover

[500]

You are again mixing different things to try and make a case for "Jewish rule over Jerusalem".

Look at the following:

After the Prophet Hazrat Yusuf-Peace Be Upon Him - PBUH (Joseph) Israelites stayed in Egypt and due to the teachings of Hazrat Yusuf the descendants of 12-brothers managed to achieve higher places for themselves.
After this there was a Nationalist revolution in Egypt and Israelites were made slaves (The Pharos).

The first Prophet after Hazrat Yusuf was Hazrat Musa-PBUH (Moses). With him Israelites went out of Egypt and then followed him for many decades.

Hazrat Musa-PBUH was followed by the Prophet Hazrat Yusha-PBUH (Josuha) and then many other Prophets - about 12,000 in total.

But the point to be noted is that, no one after Hazrat Musa-PBUH was given the Shariah; not even Hazrat Daood-PBUH (David) - who was given the book. Therefore, from the time of Hazrat Musa-PBUH till the time of Hazrat Zikriyah-PBUH and Hazrat Yahya-PBUH (John The Baptist) and even Hazrat Issa-PBUH (Jesus) it was only and only the Shariah of Hazrat Musa-PBUH that everyone followed - CORRECT?

Now! if you agree to the above, no where in the Shariah of Hazrat Musa-PBUH, there are meant to be the "KINGS" or a "KINGDOM". Israelites were meant to be a "Kingdom of Priests" not a "Supreme Monarch".

In addition, the fundamental fact you are ignoring is, that from the times of Hazrat Musa-PBUH till the times of Hazrat Yahya-PBUH and Hazrat Issa-PBUH there is not a single day in the history of Israelites that there was not a Prophet amongst them - do you agree?

So! if there was always a Prophet amongst the Israelites from the times of Hazrat Musa-PBUH till the times of Hazrat Yahya-PBUH and Hazrat Issa-PBUH; then the only leader that could be (or would be) has to be the Prophet of the relevant time.

And if every Prophet followed the Shariah of Hazrat Musa-PBUH, then how can their be any King of Israel at all and how can there be any rule of Israelites?

Can you explain this dichotomy that has been created by your arguments?

I dont know what u are babbling there.

By your own account during he first period Jews ruled in Jerusalem from 1000 BC to 586 BC. That's 414 years and not 87 as u claimed.

Second Temple lasted from 516 BC to 70 AD, that's 586 years. Although most of this period Jews had an autonomy and not full rule.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

I dont know what u are babbling there.

By your own account during he first period Jews ruled in Jerusalem from 1000 BC to 586 BC. That's 414 years and not 87 as u claimed.

Second Temple lasted from 516 BC to 70 AD, that's 586 years. Although most of this period Jews had an autonomy and not full rule.

You don't know what I am babbling?

You don't know your own history?

 

[sammuel]

You stated "Our stay is conditional...". Very interesting comment coming from a Jew (I would assume). Historical facts agrees with your statement as jews were expelled so many times from that land, but I haven't seen any mainstream jewish organization accepting that. I believe the official line is, the land is given with no condition-no strings attached, even thou it's opposite to historical reality.

Seems you are mixing two things together. One are the exiles that depended on how people behaved. What is unconditional is the promise that before the end of days God would gather the Jews from all the distant lands and bring them back to the holy land.

According to the scriptures of course , I myself am not religious.

~

 

[kuge]

hi guys,
i m asking again, "is jerusalem ever mentioned by name in the Quran?

 

[Solomon2]

@TMA : didn't you once recommend an author who wrote a book Jerusalem in the Koran? Do you have anything to contribute to the discussion here?

 

[Falgrine]

In addition, the fundamental fact you are ignoring is, that from the times of Hazrat Musa-PBUH till the times of Hazrat Yahya-PBUH and Hazrat Issa-PBUH there is not a single day in the history of Israelites that there was not a Prophet amongst them - do you agree?

As per jewish belief, this is not correct. The last Israelite Prophet (to whom a book is ascribed) was Malachi and he lived during/around the first exile period. Then there is account of the Prophet Daniel who lived during the exile in Babylon. There is also a book ascribed to him. My understanding is that Malachi and Daniel were contemporaries. After the first exile, we find the mention of Ezra and Nehemiah who might well have been prophets but not considered as such in the Jewish traditions, where they are just scribes. After this comes the so called inter-testament period, in which we do not find any description of prophets living. So between the Prophet Daniel and the Prophet Zechariah (father of the John the Baptist) , it is hard to construct a continuous prophetic line. @sammuel correct me here if I am wrong.

So! if there was always a Prophet amongst the Israelites from the times of Hazrat Musa-PBUH till the times of Hazrat Yahya-PBUH and Hazrat Issa-PBUH; then the only leader that could be (or would be) has to be the Prophet of the relevant time.

....

And if every Prophet followed the Shariah of Hazrat Musa-PBUH, then how can their be any King of Israel at all and how can there be any rule of Israelites? Can you explain this dichotomy that has been created by your arguments?

Jewish kingship is mentioned in the Quran as well i.e. Prophet Samuel anointing Saul as the first Israelite king (Surah al Baqarah 246:252). The institution of the Kingship ran in the line of Prophet David, while the priesthood was always there with the Levites (descendants of the Prophet Aaron). It continued so until the end of the first temple, when the true sovereign kingship ended. From the time of construction of the second temple until its destruction in the 70 A.D. by Romans, Judea was ruled by vassal kings, regents, or during the period of Hasmoneans, by some sort of independent rulers.

Interestingly, in the Tanakh, king David is admonished by another prophet Natan during his reign. So there are two prophetic figures living at the same time. Same is the case when the Prophet Elijah goes against the King Ahab and his Queen Jezebel. The later is infamous for her persecution of the Prophets. And many other instances as well. Meanwhile, the temple services were being run by the Levites (Kohanim), headed by the high priest (Kohan HaGadol), and nation run by a king (two actually, one ruling the northern kingdom and the other southern one, until the Assyrians whisked the 10 northern tribes away with them).

The point is the kingship, priesthood and the prophet hood remained distinct institutions during much of the biblical history.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Are u a Pakistani jew???
Can u tell us about jewish signs of the last time???

As per jewish belief, this is not correct. The last Israelite Prophet (to whom a book is ascribed) was Malachi and he lived during/around the first exile period. Then there is the account of the Prophet Daniel who lived during the exile in the Babylon and there is also a book ascribed to him. My understanding is that Malachi and Daniel were contemporaries. After the first exile, we find the mention of Ezra and Nehemiah who might well have been prophets but not considered as such in the jewish traditions, where they are just scribes. After this comes the so called inter-testament period, in which we do not find any description of prophets living. So between the Prophet Daniel and the John the Baptist, it is hard to construct the prophetic line. @sammuel correct me here if I am wrong.



Jewish kingship is mentioned in the Quran as well i.e. Prophet Samuel anointing Saul as the first Israelite king (Surah al Baqarah 246:252). The institution of the Kingship ran in the line of Prophet David, while the priesthood was always there with the Levites (descendants of the Prophet Aaron). It continued so until the end of the first temple, when the true sovereign kingship ended. From the time of construction of the second temple until its destruction in the 70 A.D. by Romans, Judea was ruled by vassal kings, regents, or during the period of Hasmoneans, by some sort of independent rulers.

Interestingly, in the Tanakh, king David is admonished by another prophet Natan during his reign. So there are two prophetic figures living at the same time. Same is the case when the Prophet Elijah goes against the King Ahab and his Queen Jezebel. The later is infamous for her persecution of the Prophets. And many other instances as well. Meanwhile, the temple services were being run by Levites (Kohanim), headed by the high priest (Kohan HaGadol), and nation run by a king (two actually, one ruling the northern kingdom and the other southern one, until the Assyrians whisked the 10 northern tribes away with them).

The point is the kingship, priesthood and the prophet hood remained distinct institutions during much of the biblical history.

 

[Falgrine]

Are u a Pakistani jew???
Can u tell us about jewish signs of the last time???

I am a Muslim who has been quite interested in learning Tanakh and the Jewish history .

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

So what are jewish asar ul qiyama in their books etc???

I am a Muslim who has been quite interested in learning Tanakh and the Jewish history .

 

[Falgrine]

So what are jewish asar ul qiyama in their books etc???

Yes, there are multiple reference in books (suhuf) of the Prophets like Ezekiel, Isaiah, Daniel etc. The most refer to the end times when the earth would be filled with the knowledge of Almighty and all people will become righteous. Please refer to the following page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_eschatology

I am a student of old scriptures myself. I possess a copy of the Tanakh at home and try to read it sometimes. TaNaKh (Torah + Suhuf ul Ambbiya + Kutub) is at least 5 times bigger than the Holy Quran. Its an enormous task to just read through it all, let alone try to understand it fully. After all, it is also a divine message, though as we Muslim believe, adulterated over the course of centuries.

I cannot say much about Talmud, however, there is another book, called Zohar, which was purportedly written by some 1st century Rabbi named Shimoun bar Zokhai. Kabbalistic Jews consider it to have divine revelations. Its has some interesting prophesies. However, modern scholars consider it be a forgery, written in the middle ages.

And finally Allah Almighty knows the best.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Is there magic found in jewish books????
I knew jewish scripture combined is very big hehe.

Yes, there are multiple reference in books (suhuf) of the Prophets like Ezekiel, Isaiah, Daniel etc. The most refer to the end times when the earth would be filled with the knowledge of Almighty and all people will become righteous. Please refer to the following page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_eschatology

I am a student of old scriptures myself. I possess a copy of the Tanakh at home and try to read it sometimes. Tanakh (Torah + Suhuf ul Ambbiya + Kutub) is at least 6 times bigger than the Holy Quran. Its an enormous task to just read through it all, let alone try to understand it fully. After all, it is also a divine message, though as we Muslim believe, adulterated over the course of centuries.

I cannot say much about Talmud, however, there is another book, called Zohar, which was purportedly written by some 1st century named Rabbi Shimoun bar Zokhai. Kabbalistic Jews consider it to have divine revelations. Its has some interesting prophesies. However, modern scholars consider it be a forgery, written in the middle ages.

And finally Allah Almighty knows the best.

 

[Falgrine]

Is there magic found in jewish books????
I knew jewish scripture combined is very big hehe.

Not in TaNaKh. It contains the word of Almighty, prophesies, wise sayings and the Jewish history.
Talmud is basically like our Hadith or oral traditions, said to have been transmitted orally through generations after generations, from the time of Moses A.S. until it got written down in Jerusalem and Babylon some time after the destruction of the second temple in 70 A.D. Then there is Midrash which is like the Tafsir i.e. explanation or commentaries of the events, situations described in TaNaKh etc.

The one field that attracts the most attention of non Jews is the Kabbalah i.e Jewish mysticism. It is very much akin to our Sufism, albeit par excellence. It has these esoteric elements, which are often described as being onto-logically magical . Only the deeply learned and invested, it is said, are able to understand its deep mysteries.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Do you come across something that u know is clearly false(man made) and you find the correct answer to it in Quran??? Like Allah making a correction where something was wrongly stated in jewish scripture???

Not in TaNaKh. It contains the word of Almighty, prophesies, wise sayings and the Jewish history.
Talmud is basically like our Hadith or oral traditions, said to have transmitted orally generations after generations from the time of Moses A.S. until it got written down in Jerusalem and Babylon, some time after the destruction of the second temple in 70 A.D. Then there is midrash which is like the tafsir i.e. explanation or commentaries of the events, situations described in TaNaKh etc.

The one field that attracts the most attention of non Jews is the Kabbalah i.e Jewish mysticism. It is very much akin to our Sufism, albeit par excellence. It has these esoteric elements, which are often described as being onto-logically magical . Only the deeply learned and invested, it is said, are able to understand its deep mysteries.

 

[Falgrine]

Do you come across something that u know is clearly false(man made) and you find the correct answer to it in Quran??? Like Allah making a correction where something was wrongly stated in jewish scripture???

There are several issues on which the two scriptures have divergent view points. Take, for instance, the case of King David. In TaNaKh he is said to have, bear with me, committed adultery. The story goes like this: one day he is viewing down from his palace and his sights stops at this woman named Bathsheba. She is a beautiful woman and Kind David asks his servants to bring her to his palace, which ends up with him having relations with her. The only problem is that she is already married to a warrior of King David named Uriah the Hittite. Later on, he gets to know that Bathsheba is with his child. King David decides to have him killed in the battle against the enemies, which he eventually does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uriah_the_Hittite

God, sends a prophet, Natan, to admonish the King David. When in the company of David, Natan the prophet describes a parable (2 Samuel 12)
"The prophet Nathan soon after confronted David about this murder, by first telling him a story of a rich man and a poor man: The rich man had many sheep, while the poor man had only one little ewe, whom he cared for greatly. A traveler approached the rich man for food, whereby the man took the poor man's ewe and dressed it to give to the traveler.

Hearing this story, David grew angry and replied: "As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this deserves to die! He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity."

Nathan replied, "You are the man! This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. I gave your master's house to you, and your master's wives into your arms. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah."

Now this poses a problem for the Jewish sages, for the King David, being a prophet too, commits an evil act. One of the explanations given is that, in jewish law, every married person going to the war gives to his wife a divorce letter, so that in case of him being MIA, she may marry some other person. I guess this is still being followed in Israel today. Anyways, if so, then Bathsheba was not really the wife of Uriah during his absence. Hence, King David is not actually accused of having committed the adultery. However, his sin is not being forthcoming and telling the truth and sending Uriah to his sure death.

Interestingly, this parable of the prophet Natan appears in another form in the Quran. Here two men burst into King David's chamber, and put up their case for arbitration, which is very similar to the parable in Tanakh (Quran 38:21-26).

Likewise, there are other stories in TaNaKh, which apparently present prophets committing sins, while those details are not mentioned in the Quran. One may say that Judaism has different understanding of and expectations from the prophets. Or the Quran actually clears those great personalities from the unjustified accusations.