Jerusalem Post: The Turkish saga

[T-123456]

Democracy ensures that the majority gets to set the rules. Their majority, their government, their rules.

Why should the majority of people live under your rules.

If you want to change the rules, win at the ballot box. Simple.

If you want Street thuggery, then the result will be same as Egypt.

So decide you want things settled through the ballot box or through murder or mayhem in the Street.

Its not that easy;
If you win by 51% or have a minority vote government and try to change laws,customs and culture then you are in trouble.
Democracy is not,I WIN I rule the way i desire.
Democracy is,I win We rule together and we dont try to change things.
We stay democratic.

 

[Armstrong]

Its not that easy;
If you win by 51% or have a minority vote government and try to change laws,customs and culture then you are in trouble.
Democracy is not,I WIN I rule the way i desire.
Democracy is,I win We rule together and we dont try to change things.
We stay democratic.

Someone needs a few Political Science lectures !

 

[liontk]

You know my vieuw about democracy
Just answer me one question,i want your honest answer.
How many in your familly(all of your relatives also in Turkey or where ever)do know the true meaning of democracy?
I can answer about mine and i have a big familly,i would say 30% and only because those have at least MBO/HBO level here and at least lise level there.
So you need some kind of education to GET it.
See,even here in Europe only 60% knows the real meaning of democracy.
For democracy to work you need at least a 50%.
Look at Wilders how many of his votes are from at least MBO to academics,5/10% maybe?

Upholding Democratic values are part of western ideals, if you cannot govern your country on those and call for your armforces intervention in civil government then why bother trying to be part of the EU. I mean it's like a wolf trying to be in sheep clothes, unless you don't respect the mandate of your people in that case I think your point is fine. I mean seriously I am getting tired of defending Turkey on Canadien forums, most folks in our forum feel that Turkey should not even be part of NATO let alone EU to be precise and there is that animosity towards the country that I now understand the reason for. I mean after three military coups you still pretend to have western ideals. I seriously have alot of respect of the Turkey's civil mandate and I think eventually Turkey can be part of western civilization but you have to adhere to our ideals or don't bother applying simple as that.

 

[Armstrong]

@liontk - Salam, Hashmi Sahib !

Kaise hain aaap ? Aaap kii mengaitar (fiance) kaisee haiiin ? Aaap kei Dadaa (Paternal Grandpa) kaisee haiin ?

 

[T-123456]

Oh come on dude @T-123456 - You're just jealous of Erdogan - My Man, because chicks dig him !

About time,i was getting tired you can take over.
First Fenerbahce and now Erdogan?
You can have those chicks that dig him.
If you cant see the face or figure,how you gonna know she not a Hippo?

 

[liontk]

@liontk - Salam, Hashmi Sahib !

Kaise hain aaap ? Aaap kii mengaitar (fiance) kaisee haiiin ? Aaap kei Dadaa (Paternal Grandpa) kaisee haiin ?

This is a serious thread mon ami but you always find a way to cheer up everyone around you eh . Since it's eid I am trying to keep my defence addiction to a minimum but everyone else here is having a good time. lots of delicious food and I got some practice also speaking urdu and it was great conversing with elders and the whole courtesy and respect was great to observe in the maafil. Also I had pink traditional tea, i dunno the real name for it but it is simply to die for, I will post the picture later on naswar thread. Now lets get back to discussing this topic before i diverge to other things and Neptune will have to clean things up and I seriously dont want him to work overtime on eid lol

 

[olcayto]

You know my vieuw about democracy
Just answer me one question,i want your honest answer.
How many in your familly(all of your relatives also in Turkey or where ever)do know the true meaning of democracy?
I can answer about mine and i have a big familly,i would say 30% and only because those have at least MBO/HBO level here and at least lise level there.
So you need some kind of education to GET it.
See,even here in Europe only 60% knows the real meaning of democracy.
For democracy to work you need at least a 50%.
Look at Wilders how many of his votes are from at least MBO to academics,5/10% maybe?

Well actually the generation of my family that was born in the big city is educated mostly, but İ can see your point.
But don't forget that the ones who massacred democracy in our country up until today were the highly eucaged ones ( military school) .

İ don't know what pvv's voters education is, but to be fairly honest İ doubt it would be different then any other party's.
They take adventage of the people's emotions and racism exist in every level of society. At least the other parties don't do this.

İn Turkey all parties use the PVV method. AKP = islam , CHP = Atatürk and MHP= nationalism.

There's a reason for me to despice the military head's. Refusing my nephew for military school just because he comes from a conservative family. Murdering of a family of mine who was a officer in the military.
İf this is your idea of not democracy but justice, then sorry abi we're at a different frequention.

 

[Armstrong]

This is a serious thread mon ami but you always find a way to cheer up everyone around you eh . Since it's eid I am trying to keep my defence addiction to a minimum but everyone else here is having a good time. lots of delicious food and I got some practice also speaking urdu and it was great conversing with elders and the whole courtesy and respect was great to observe in the maafil. Also I had pink traditional tea, i dunno the real name for it but it is simply to die for, I will post the picture later on naswar thread. Now lets get back to discussing this topic before i diverge to other things and Neptune will have to clean things up and I seriously dont want him to work overtime on eid lol

Its called Kashmiri Chai !

 

[T-123456]

Upholding Democratic values are part of western ideals, if you cannot govern your country on those and call for your armforces intervention in civil government then why bother trying to be part of the EU. I mean it's like a wolf trying to be in sheep clothes, unless you don't respect the mandate of your people in that case I think your point is fine. I mean seriously I am getting tired of defending Turkey on Canadien forums, most folks in our forum feel that Turkey should not even be part of NATO let alone EU to be precise and there is that animosity towards the country that I now understand the reason for. I mean after three military coups you still pretend to have western ideals. I seriously have alot of respect of the Turkey's civil mandate and I think eventually Turkey can be part of western civilization but you have to adhere to our ideals or don't bother applying simple as that.

That horse must be real high.
1-We dont want to be a part of your western ideals,we are west and east in one country(western culture and eastern cultureliving side by side)
2-Sorry but who cares if Canadians want us in NATO or not,we are NATO and will stay NATO(for now,with Erdogan you never know)
3-EU,dont give so much value to the EU.
If countries like Bulgaria,Romania(no economy) can be member and Turkey not then you know its a christian club.
The will to get in the EU is long gone,we do business with them and it will stay that way.
So all in all,we are neither east or west but both.
I care for the future of my country and nothing else,be it with the west east north south or all together.
The way things are going,my countries future sucks.

Well actually the generation of my family that was born in the big city is educated mostly, but İ can see your point.
But don't forget that the ones who massacred democracy in our country up until today were the highly eucaged ones ( military school) .

İ don't know what pvv's voters education is, but to be fairly honest İ doubt it would be different then any other party's.
They take adventage of the people's emotions and racism exist in every level of society. At least the other parties don't do this.

İn Turkey all parties use the PVV method. AKP = islam , CHP = Atatürk and MHP= nationalism.

There's a reason for me to despice the military head's. Refusing my nephew for military school just because he comes from a conservative family. Murdering of a family of mine who was a officer in the military.
İf this is your idea of not democracy but justice, then sorry abi we're at a different frequention.

Im sorry for what happend to your familly but you know what i mean,we will discuss it somewhere some other time.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Its not that easy;
If you win by 51% or have a minority vote government and try to change laws,customs and culture then you are in trouble.
Democracy is not,I WIN I rule the way i desire.
Democracy is,I win We rule together and we dont try to change things.
We stay democratic.

LMAO


NEW SCHOOL OF DEMOCRACY A LA 123456


Dude , I really like you - you are funny as hell.


" We rule Together " Lol, what a great idea.


Why even bother to have elections and waste time , money and energy.

Guys, we have a new kind of democracy. we will all rule together..

 

[T-123456]

LMAO


NEW SCHOOL OF DEMOCRACY A LA 123456


Dude , I really like you - you are funny as hell.


" We rule Together " Lol, what a great idea.


Why even bother to have elections and waste time , money and energy.

Guys, we have anew kind of democracy. we will all rule together..

You should really read about western politics and then have a laugh.
For some law changes you need opposition votes to(sometimes 2/3 of all votes in parlement),but since you know better lets leave it at that.



This is a piece from the dutch politics;


3. Changing the constitution
Changing the Dutch constitution is a multi-part effort:

1.First, a proposal for constitutional change is made into normal law. The law should states that parliament considers changing the constitution, and exactly in which way.
2.If this law is passed by a normal majority in parliament, parliament is disbanded and new elections are held.
3.Both chambers of the new parliament now consider the proposed constitutional change, and the change must be passed by a two-thirds majority.

Have another laugh.

 

[Pakistanisage]

You should really read about western politics and then have a laugh.
For some law changes you need opposition votes to(sometimes 2/3 of all votes in parlement),but since you know better lets leave it at that.

Yes , there I Agree with you.

Any changes to the CONSTITUTION should require 2/3rd majority vote.

But in running the day to day Government, the Parliament needs simple majority to legislate new laws with the exception of Laws that contradict CONSTITUTION of the Country , in which case you need 2/3rd majority to enact an AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION.

I was laughing about your comment of ruling together. There is no such requirement of ruling together under Democracy. Most USA elections are settled by a hair thin majority and Presidents in last 4 elections were elected with 51% vote. Most laws enacted by a Congress or Parliament does not need 2/3rd majority votes because they are not contradicting the CONSTITUTION. They just need simple majority and signed by the President or Prime Minister.

By the way, Modern Democracy is a product of the USA and all European countries have copied that model with minor variations. If you need education in DEMOCRACY, look at the US model not Nederland that merely copies US.

 

[T-123456]

Yes , there I Agree with you.

Any changes to the CONSTITUTION should require 2/3rd majority vote.

But in running the day to day Government, the Parliament needs simple majority to legislate new laws with the exception of Laws that contradict CONSTITUTION of the Country , in which case you need 2/3rd majority to enact an AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION.

If you try to change the country you need opposition votes?
So this means we rule together?
We were talking about changing the country and nothing else.

 

[olcayto]

To change the constitution of Turkey you also need 66,66% of the parliament.
Between 60% and 66,65% you can put the constitution change to a referandum.

Akp got 60% of support in the parliament, put the laws through a referandum and got 60% of support from the Turkish people, changing the constitution.

 

[Pakistanisage]

If you try to change the country you need opposition votes?
So this means we rule together?
We were talking about changing the country and nothing else.

You are using vague terms that don't mean squat in a Democracy.

Changing a country is not an issue. Question is are they changing the CONSTITUTION ?

If the law they are enacting is contradicting a specific clause of the Constitution, then that should require 2/3rd majority vote. otherwise not.

There is no concept of " Ruling together requirement " in Democracy.

If they won by more than 50%, then they have the right to rule the country and legislate new laws as long as they don't contradict the CONSTITUTION. If they want to Change the CONSTITUTION , then they need an AMENDMENT TO CONSTITUTION supported by a 2/3rd majority vote. How complicated is that to comprehend.