Japan’s Epsilon rocket ordered to self-destruct after failed launch

[REhorror]

Yeah, japan can keep their launches to zero better over the years then it can claim their success rate is 100%, thats great. Just as Japanese often claim their HSR is safer than Chinese HSR supposedly with better accident number records while they conveniently ignore the fact that Chinese HSR is almost 20 times the scale of Japan or at least more than 10 times for many years.

As they launch more, there will be more launch failure, this is true for China as well.
And I know there's a lot of competition in these fields in both countries, but what they said about the HSR safety record is true, Japan hasn't had a major HSR incident, while China has at least 2 (Wenzhou and this year with the train conductor during heavy rain).

 

[etylo]

As they launch more, there will be more launch failure, this is true for China as well.
And I know there's a lot of competition in these fields in both countries, but what they said about the HSR safety record is true, Japan hasn't had a major HSR incident, while China has at least 2 (Wenzhou and this year with the train conductor during heavy rain).

This years accident has nothing to do with HSR and train itself, the accident was due to the landslide from heavy rain, the weather no one can control. The Wenzhou accident more than 12 years ago is not even high speed train, designed and travelling below 200 km/h, anything less than 200 km/h at the time and now less than 250 km/h is considered not high speed train in China. Japanese HSR trains also have quite a number of accidents over the years, but maybe not that dramatic.

 

[REhorror]

This years accident hot nothing to do with HSR and train itself, the accident was due to the landslide from heavy rain, the weather no one can control. The Wenzhou accident more than 12 years ago is not even high speed train, designed and travelling below 200 km/h, anything less than 200 km/h at the time and now less than 250 km/h is considered not high speed train in China. Japanese HSR trains also have quite a number of accidents over the years, but maybe not that dramatic.

All HSR/Shinkansen incidents in Japan are related to earthquake, and none of them have resulted in any casualties.

Wenzhou line was considered a HSR at the time, and it was one of the biggest HSR accident in the 2010s.

 

[etylo]

All HSR/Shinkansen incidents in Japan are related to earthquake, and none of them have resulted in any casualties.

Wenzhou line was considered a HSR at the time, and it was one of the biggest HSR accident in the 2010s.

No, in China, ordinary train is called 火车, Wenzhou train a transition between ordinary train and high speed train is called 动车，high speed train in China is called 高铁, outside might call the Wenzhou train as HSR, not by China though becos the Wenzhou train and rail are designed to operate and they operated well below 200 km/h, anything operate below 200 in China at that time is not considered high speed.

 

[REhorror]

No, in China, ordinary train is called 火车, Wenzhou train a transition between ordinary train and high speed train is called 动车，high speed train in China is called 高铁, outside might call the Wenzhou train as HSR, not by China though becos the Wenzhou train and rail are designed to operate and they operated well below 200 km/h, anything operate below 200 in China at that time is not considered high speed.

Wikiwand - 中华人民共和国高速铁路

中华人民共和国高速铁路，是目前世界上最大规模的高速铁路网。1999年8月16日中华人民共和国第一条客运专线秦沈客运专线开工，2003年10月12日建成通车。京津高鐵於2008年通車後，中國正式邁入時速300公里以上的高速鐵路新時代，並開始陸續在各省興建高速鐵路。截至2023年底總里程超過4.4万公里，通车程全球第一，其中營運時速可達300公里的路線總里程超1.5萬公里，占世界2/3以上，開通範圍已涵蓋包括香港特別行政區的31个省级行政区。其中京津城際鐵路、京滬高速鐵路等多条线路已達到時速350公里的全球最快營運速度，目前路线仍持續兴建中，預計在2025年将建成约60,000公里的高速铁路网。

www.wikiwand.com

I check chinese wikipedia, and I still see 200-250km/h being considered a HSR line even now.

 

[etylo]

Wikiwand - 中华人民共和国高速铁路

中华人民共和国高速铁路，是目前世界上最大规模的高速铁路网。1999年8月16日中华人民共和国第一条客运专线秦沈客运专线开工，2003年10月12日建成通车。京津高鐵於2008年通車後，中國正式邁入時速300公里以上的高速鐵路新時代，並開始陸續在各省興建高速鐵路。截至2023年底總里程超過4.4万公里，通车程全球第一，其中營運時速可達300公里的路線總里程超1.5萬公里，占世界2/3以上，開通範圍已涵蓋包括香港特別行政區的31个省级行政区。其中京津城際鐵路、京滬高速鐵路等多条线路已達到時速350公里的全球最快營運速度，目前路线仍持續兴建中，預計在2025年将建成约60,000公里的高速铁路网。

www.wikiwand.com

I check chinese wikipedia, and I still see 200-250km/h being considered a HSR line even now.

See the Chinese in the official report call Wenzhou train in the accident 动车：

百度百科-验证

百度百科是一部内容开放、自由的网络百科全书，旨在创造一个涵盖所有领域知识，服务所有互联网用户的中文知识性百科全书。在这里你可以参与词条编辑，分享贡献你的知识。

baike.baidu.com

Japan also has its good share of fatal accidents, example of one of the most serious:

JR福知山線出軌事故 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书

zh-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog

 

[REhorror]

See the Chinese in the official report call Wenzhou train in the accident 动车：

百度百科-验证

百度百科是一部内容开放、自由的网络百科全书，旨在创造一个涵盖所有领域知识，服务所有互联网用户的中文知识性百科全书。在这里你可以参与词条编辑，分享贡献你的知识。

baike.baidu.com

Japan also has its good share of fatal accidents, example of one of the most serious:

JR福知山線出軌事故 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书

zh-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog

Maybe that was clearly historical revisionism/censorship then because Wenzhou line was clearly HSR.

Ironically, that Fukuchiyama line accident (that killed 104) was not a Shinkansen, but a train that was driven faster than designed specs by the conductor.

 

[etylo]

Maybe that was clearly historical revisionism/censorship then because Wenzhou line was clearly HSR.

Ironically, that Fukuchiyama line accident (that killed 104) was not a Shinkansen, but a train that was driven faster than designed specs by the conductor.

No, the official Chinese media has consistently called the Wenzhou 动车accident from the very beginning, no revision of the story there and I dont see the reason for, dont always doubt what Chinese are saying for no good reason.

The Japanese rail system also had design flaws that caused the fatal accident as explained in the wiki article.

 

[REhorror]

No, the official Chinese media has consistently called the Wenzhou 动车accident from the very beginning, no revision of the story there and I dont see the reason for, dont always doubt what Chinese are saying for no good reason.

The Japanese rail system also had design flaws that caused the fatal accident as explained in the wiki article.

Wenzhou is clearly a HSR train that runs at 200km/h.

About Fukuchiyama incident, even in that wiki article, it says that the conductor was trying to run the train faster than the designed spec for the rail, especially in the bending part, to make up for the lost time.

 

[etylo]

Wenzhou is clearly a HSR train that runs at 200km/h.

About Fukuchiyama incident, even in that wiki article, it says that the conductor was trying to run the train faster than the designed spec for the rail, especially in the bending part, to make up for the lost time.

Wenzhou runs below 200 at the time and therefore its not HSR.

Quotes from wikipedia:

"High speed was not a factor in the accident, however, since neither train was moving faster than 99 km/h (62 mph), a moderate speed for a passenger train."

Actually, the initial cause of the Wenzhou train accident was casued by natural disaster as lightning striked on the rail system repeatedly before it failed to operate properly.


The Japanese design of the rail curvature at the place is too big as flawed as explained the first likely cause of the accident in the article.



Quotes of Chinese definition of 动车 and 高铁 now ；

"铁道部目前定义：动车指代时速在 200 公里级别的铁路线路；高铁指代时速在 300 公里级别的铁路线路。"

https://life.fudan.edu.cn/_upload/article/files/ef/fa/6dbb7b554532aa935682e6b68506/23606036-8fdf-432e-93bd-b06cd26199d1.pdf

 

[REhorror]

Wenzhou runs below 200 at the time and therefore its not HSR.

Quotes from wikipedia:

"High speed was not a factor in the accident, however, since neither train was moving faster than 99 km/h (62 mph), a moderate speed for a passenger train."

Yet it's still an HSR that's capable of running 200 km/h for normal performance, I'm not sure what happened in Wenzhou, but it was an unfortunate collision.

About the japanese one, I'm not sure even if you even read the zh.wikipedia article you post but again:

the accident tram passed the previous station Tsukaguchi at 120km/h and arrived at the crashed corner at 116km/h), and the mistake also "distracted the driver, causing the train to delay the start of the brake when it reached the crashed corner", and ended up at the corner Even if the emergency braking was used, it was too late to reduce the speed below the limit speed (70km/h), resulting in a serious derailment accident.

The conductor was going way over the limit and he didn't break in time. True, there should have been more guardrails and the bend should be less sharp but even then it wouldn't stop a 100 km speeding train like this.
After this accident, they reduced the worktime shift for the conductors and it didn't happen again.

 

[etylo]

Yet it's still an HSR that's capable of running 200 km/h for normal performance, I'm not sure what happened in Wenzhou, but it was an unfortunate collision.

About the japanese one, I'm not sure even if you even read the zh.wikipedia article you post but again:

The conductor was going way over the limit and he didn't break in time. True, there should have been more guardrails and the bend should be less sharp but even then it wouldn't stop a 100 km speeding train like this.
After this accident, they reduced the worktime shift for the conductors and it didn't happen again.

You didnt read the first paragraph on the causes of the Japanese accident in the article, you are just being selective.

The Wenzhou rail section is not designed to operate at high speed as defined by China, period, dont talk to me nonsense.


Quotes from wiki article:

According to the Air and Railway Accident Investigation Commission, the cause of the accident is quite complex. The investigation alleged that the accident scene with a horizontal curve radius of 300 meters "was a rather sharp bend". However, the automatic train stop system (ATS-Sw) installed near the site is the oldest model still in use in Japan. In addition to the bend radius of 304 meters, this bend does not have safety measures such as guard rails to prevent derailment.

 

[REhorror]

You didnt read the first paragraph on the causes of the Japanese accident in the article, you are just being selective.

The Wenzhou rail section is not designed to operate at high speed as defined by China, period, dont talk to me nonsense.

I do read it:

The investigation alleged that the accident scene with a horizontal curve radius of 300 meters "was a rather sharp bend". However, the automatic train stop system (ATS-Sw) installed near the site is the oldest model still in use in Japan. In addition to the bend radius of 304 meters, this bend does not have safety measures such as guard rails to prevent derailment.

But I don't think this is the main case, especially when the conductor was pushing a 70km/h train to 120 km/h to make up lost time. The security measures in places simply weren't enough to stop a 100km/h speeding train.

I should look more into Wenzhou though, I know it was a collision but I don't know why it happened.

 

[etylo]

I do read it:

But I don't think this is the main case, especially when the conductor was pushing a 70km/h train to 120 km/h to make up lost time. The security measures in places simply weren't enough to stop a 100km/h speeding train.

I should look more into Wenzhou though, I know it was a collision but I don't know why it happened.

Thats only what you think of the cause of the japanese accidents, not the experts otherwise they wont put on the very top.

The lightning striked the Wenzhou rail system repeatedly to make the system fail to operate properly as the accident happened. There are maybe some design flaws to not able to stand intact to these heavy lightning strikes.

 

[REhorror]

The lightning striked the Wenzhou rail system repeatedly to make the system fail to operate properly as the accident happened. There are maybe some design flaws to not able to stand intact to these heavy lightning strikes.

That seems fishy to me honestly, repeatedly lightning strike?