Japan's Abe says TPP would have strategic significance if China joined

[William Hung]

Xi Jinping's tenure in office will not end in 5-6 years. Alot can change for China with or without the TPP in a 5-10 year time frame. TPP is not the top holy grail to boost the global economy.

Nowhere did I mentioned about Xi’s tenure ending nor did I said anything about boosting the global economy. Please learn not to use strawman.

 

[Huan]

Nowhere did I mentioned about Xi’s tenure ending nor did I said anything about boosting the global economy. Please learn not to use strawman.

No it is not a strawman. You act like it just takes 5-6 years for everything to fall apart in China for Xi as if it is a time limit to turn things around. But Xi Jinping has plenty of time to work out a solution INDEPENDENT of the TPP beyond that time limit. You also seem to think that China will sooner or later need TPP to boost her economy, thus in effect boost the global economy. Since China is the main driver of global economic growth.

 

[William Hung]

No it is not a strawman. You act like it just takes 5-6 years for everything to fall apart in China for Xi as if it is a time limit to turn things around. But Xi Jinping has plenty of time to work out a solution INDEPENDENT of the TPP beyond that time limit. You also seem to think that China will sooner or later need TPP to boost her economy, thus in effect boost the global economy. Since China is the main driver of global economic growth.

Yes it was indeed a strawman. I did not mentioned anything about Xi’s tenure ending nor did I mentioned anything about boosting the global economy, which were both your two points you made in your previous reply.

Strawman means introducing things that I did not say and trying to use that against me.

Please kindly first learn how to properly engage in a sincere and honest discussion before you get upset and riled up.

When you have managed to learn this, and control your emotion, I would be happy to engage you in friendly discussions. Thank you.

 

[Viet]

Well . Secret agreement is a good answer to all kinds of questions. I wish the other TPP nations are happy with that.

I will try to make myself clear .

Your industrial structure is limited once you join TPP.

Your advantaged industry will be better ,like textile industy.

Your disadvantaged industry will be worse even die,like heavy industries .

What I mean is you will keep staying in the certain position of industry chain and never have a chance to climb to the high end .And the rules of origin will limit your business. the rules of ISDS will control your law .


The point is Japan and US only wish you to do the labor work . Just like what they did in China.

is labor or simple work a bad thing? do you think the government of Vietnam is not aware of the weaknesses of our economy, our labor force, our backwardness, hopeless behind America and Japan? the thing is how to respond? the times when the conservatives within VCP closed their eyes are over. luckily.

what can China offer Vietnam if you think you have something better?

And that labor work helped China lift over 800 million Chinese out of poverty. Everyone has to start somewhere. Vietnam will also progress like China in years prior.

exactly bro. you can´t start building a spacecraft. no. first, you will end up starting to assemble a samsung phone.

 

[Kyle Sun]

is labor or simple work a bad thing? do you think the government of Vietnam is not aware of the weaknesses of our economy, our labor force, our backwardness, hopeless behind America and Japan? the thing is how to respond? the times when the conservatives within VCP closed their eyes are over. luckily.

what can China offer Vietnam if you think you have something better?

The problem is not what we can offer. The problem is you should look for better things from the whole world but not only TPP nations.

Just for example . VN want to buy textile material from china coz our supply is stable and price is reasonable . But you can not buy our material once you join TPP ,you need to buy it from USA and mexico even when they do not have enough material .

 

[Viet]

The problem is not what we can offer. The problem is you should look for better things from the whole world but not TPP nations.

Just for example . VN want to buy textile material from china coz our supply is stable and price is reasonable . But you can not buy our material once you join TPP ,you need

TPP is just one of the trade pacts we sign this year.

 

[Kyle Sun]

TPP is just one of the trade pacts we sign this year.

So it turns to the original question again. Will you follow the TPP rules ? TPP does not allow you to buy materials from us.

 

[Huan]

TPP is just one of the trade pacts we sign this year.

But you are most excited about this particular trade pact vs other pacts. The pact that supposedly changes the game significantly against China.

Yes it was indeed a strawman. I did not mentioned anything about Xi’s tenure ending nor did I mentioned anything about boosting the global economy, which were both your two points you made in your previous reply.

Strawman means introducing things that I did not say and trying to use that against me.

Please kindly first learn how to properly engage in a sincere and honest discussion before you get upset and riled up.

When you have managed to learn this, and control your emotion, I would be happy to engage you in friendly discussions. Thank you.

No. I still politely disagree. I disagree on your view of China's current direction. Overall, China will likely not join the TPP in the near future. Take care, bye.

 

[Viva_Viet]

So it turns to the original question again. Will you follow the TPP rules ? TPP does not allow you to buy materials from us.

Ah,of course we will not buy anything from you to export to other TPP nations. We want to take CN economy down now

 

[Aepsilons]

exactly bro. you can´t start building a spacecraft. no. first, you will end up starting to assemble a samsung phone.

Before Japan was an industrialized modernized power, we , too, were in the same conditions as many third world countries, EVEN WORSE, remember our inrastructure was in rubbles and nearly 5 million casualties. Yet we did it. We started in hard manufacturing, simple agrarian reform as well. The point is, Japan started off worse than Vietnam or even China. Yet look how far Japan has ascended in terms of modernity and high human index. If Japan can do it, no reason why Vietnam cannot. Vietnam can be another Japan.

Remember, our enemies used to say, "Japan will never rise above the ashes of war." Lo and behold we proved them wrong. Why, in fact, many of the western powers in Europe whom we humbled in battle in WWII never believed that Asians could rise economically and militarily. Japan proved them wrong in all aspects. Even daring to challenge their empire systems at the time. China's growth, India's growth, and now Vietnam's growth --- is testament to the rise of Asia in this century. TPP functions in such a way that links the growing economies of Asia , Latin America as well as North America. A hybridization if you may. Science scholars will refer to this relationship as symbiotic and conjunctivistic.It is an example of dynamic intercommensurability.

Best of Luck to Viet Nam and the Proud people of Viet Nam !

Just for example . VN want to buy textile material from china coz our supply is stable and price is reasonable . But you can not buy our material once you join TPP ,you need to buy it from USA and mexico even when they do not have enough material .

The problem with VN-CN dynamic is that the balance of trade favors China. The $60 billion trade between VN and CN overwhelmingly favors China, actually.

Whereas the trade VN has with Japan $30 Billion and the trade VN has with USA $45 Billion --- all of it favors Vietnam.

In fact Japan imports HUGE amounts of agrarian, fishing and livestock goods from Viet Nam, imports massive manufacturing parts from Vietnam , imports raw minerals from Vietnam. Mind you Japan's massive 130 million and very wealthy market has yet to be fully tapped by Vietnamese business conglomerates , only a dent.

This TPP will remove any restrictions Japan had to Vietnamese imports, meaning Vietnam can expect to see bilateral trade with Japan hit $50 Billion or even more. In regards to trade with the US, Vietnam can see trade levels hit north of $70 Billion in the next 10 years. Clearly Vietnam will benefit. But then so will Japan and the United States as we will have greater access to affordable Vietnamese commodities and also we gain a long term partner. And future ally.

 

[Viet]

But you are most excited about this particular trade pact vs other pacts. The pact that supposedly changes the game significantly against China..

You are correct. Every nation looks after its interests. China is no difference, is't it? When you claim the entire sea body as yours, drilling in our waters, playing a policy of intimidation, invading killing our people as seen in the past or whatever you do in foreign policy, I don't recall you asked Vietnam for permission.

 

[Aepsilons]

So it turns to the original question again. Will you follow the TPP rules ? TPP does not allow you to buy materials from us.

Of course they will follow TPP rules, just like they have been following WTO and expression in APEC. The same as they have followed similar mechanisms in the Japan-Vietnam Trade Pacts as well as various articulation agreements.

You are correct. Every nation looks after its interests. China is no difference, is't it? When you claim the entire sea body as yours, drilling in our waters, playing a policy of intimidation, invading killing our people as seen in the past or whatever you do in foreign policy, I don't recall you asked Vietnam for permission.

Brother,

Do not include SCS or any security issues in this debate, it will encourage unnecessary miscommunication. Let us focus on economic-based dimension here. Security issues can be left in another thread. Thank you.

 

[Viet]

So it turns to the original question again. Will you follow the TPP rules ? TPP does not allow you to buy materials from us.

I answer this question already: of course we will follow the rules. With some exceptions. Buying raw materials from China is just a part of big business my friend. So relax. If our trades grow by TPP, we will buy more expensive items from you: trucks, machineries, and who knows warships.

 

[Aepsilons]

Ah,of course we will not buy anything from you to export to other TPP nations. We want to take CN economy down now

Well, to be honest, the trade between Vietnam and China ($60-70 Billion) is one of the largest of China's trade in ASEAN. Given the balance of trade favors China, naturally. Loosing Vietnamese market will be costly. So perhaps the reason why Xi is visiting the President of Vietnam is to assuage him on something similar, some softer trade pact in response to the TPP's passing.

I bet 900,000 dongs on that.

 

[Viet]

Of course they will follow TPP rules, just like they have been following WTO and expression in APEC. The same as they have followed similar mechanisms in the Japan-Vietnam Trade Pacts as well as various articulation agreements.



Brother,

Do not include SCS or any security issues in this debate, it will encourage unnecessary miscommunication. Let us focus on economic-based dimension here. Security issues can be left in another thread. Thank you.

Just saying we know the chinese. But no worry, our people are much more pragmatic than anyone may think.