Japan watching China's military closely

[CardSharp]

I'm not quite sure I understand the distinction.

 

[Nomenclature]

Is it because Japan has 655,377 Han Chinese?

Not really. I think the main reason is Han nationalists are usually more historically aware and look at Japan as part of the Sinosphere. Another reason is Han nationalists have other pet hates like the communist party, the manchu and the Zhonghua nationalists, so they kind of have fewer hatred to spare for the Japanese.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

self delete

 

[CardSharp]

Difference between Chinese nationalist and Han nationalist I meant.

 

[Nomenclature]

I'm not quite sure I understand the distinction.

Well, Zhonghua nationalists are those who profess a Chinese identity over a Han (or other ethnic) identity and for Han nationalists it is the other way around.

In another thread I asked whether there is any evidence that PLAN is going to rename Varyag as Shi Lang, like a lot of Western analyst proclaimed.

Shi Lang, of course, was the admiral who led the Qing military forces to conquer Taiwan. And he is also one of the figures divides Han nationalists and Zhonghua nationalists. For Zhonghua nationalists, he's a national hero who reunified China. For Han nationalists, Shi Lang was a race traitor who led military forces of a non-Han dynasty to conquer a self-governing Han territory.

Indeed a few years ago CCTV (China's national TV network) aired a historical drama about Shi Lang and portrayed him in a very positive light, which caused an outrage among Han nationalists (not like they ever liked CCTV anyway).

There are a lot of other differences. Han nationalists are usually pro-traditional Chinese characters, pro-Cantonese and other dialects, and they're usually very critical of the communist party especially its cultural policy. A lot of Han nationalists are very pro-KMT too.

 

[topjumper]

Well, Zhonghua nationalists are those who profess a Chinese identity over a Han (or other ethnic) identity and for Han nationalists it is the other way around.

In another thread I asked whether there is any evidence that PLAN is going to rename Varyag as Shi Lang, like a lot of Western analyst proclaimed.

Shi Lang, of course, was the admiral who led the Qing military forces to conquer Taiwan. And he is also one of the figures divides Han nationalists and Zhonghua nationalists. For Zhonghua nationalists, he's a national hero who reunified China. For Han nationalists, Shi Lang was a race traitor who led military forces of a non-Han dynasty to conquer a self-governing Han territory.

Indeed a few years ago CCTV (China's national TV network) aired a historical drama about Shi Lang and portrayed him in a very positive light, which caused an outrage among Han nationalists (not like they ever liked CCTV anyway).

There are a lot of other differences. Han nationalists are usually pro-traditional Chinese characters, pro-Cantonese and other dialects, and they're usually very critical of the communist party especially its cultural policy. A lot of Han nationalists are very pro-KMT too.

Interesting, that's the first time I heard this type of distinction, but i think the "Han nationalists" naming you refer to here is a little misleading, it's more like the nationalists in Taiwan (KMT types).

 

[Nomenclature]

Interesting, that's the first time I heard this type of distinction, but i think the "Han nationalists" naming you refer to here is a little misleading, it's more like the nationalists in Taiwan (KMT types).

Not really. Some examples I gave centered around Taiwan but that's only one dimension of the movement, and it's not the most important one. Some Han nationalists are anti-KMT, for example.

The most distinctive aspect of this particular kind of nationalism is its emphasis on the Han identity, so I think Han nationalism is the most adequate name for it.

 

[lcloo]

Han Nationalist sound racist to me. Those who raise up and over thrown Qing Dysnatiy are refer to Revolutionist, they did have some of the characterics of the "Han Nationalist" of treating Manchu and Mongolianas alient race during the revolution but they quickly changed as they realised Han Chinese is not the only race in China. And these people later formed KMT.

中华民族zhonghua minzu,
汉族Hanzu.
Han Nationalist = ???.

What is the Han Nationalist written in Chinese Character? This is also the first time I ever heard of such term.

Are you sure this is not another term make up by some westerner? There are many terms that you can not find in Chinese like China Proper, Manchuria Proper etc which tends to divide China.

Example China Proper exclues Tibet and Manchuria. You can guess who make up such term and what are their intention.

 

[Nomenclature]

Han Nationalist sound racist to me. Those who raise up and over thrown Qing Dysnatiy are refer to Revolutionist, they did have some of the characterics of the "Han Nationalist" of treating Manchu and Mongolianas alient race during the revolution but they quickly changed as they realised Han Chinese is not the only race in China. And these people later formed KMT.

中华民族zhonghua minzu,
汉族Hanzu.
Han Nationalist = ???.

What is the Han Nationalist written in Chinese Character? This is also the first time I ever heard of such term.

Are you sure this is not another term make up by some westerner? There are many terms that you can not find in Chinese like China Proper, Manchuria Proper etc which tends to divide China.

Example China Proper exclues Tibet and Manchuria. You can guess who make up such term and what are their intention.

I fail to see why Han nationalists should be any more racist than, say, Tibetan nationalists. It's natural for people belonging to any ethnic group to see its cultural traditions preserved and indeed boom among its population, so why should the Han be any different.

There's really no universally accepted Chinese word for Han nationalism, 汉民族主义 probably comes closest. Some people use 皇汉主义 but not everyone is in favor of that name. 汉族复兴 is another name.

The movement reached its height at around the 2005-2006 but dimmed down after intense government crackdowns, which is not surprising since a lot of Han nationalists are anti-communist. But I'm sure it will rise to preeminence again after the Internet censorship ends. Every country has its conservatives and Han nationalism is really just a form of Han conservatism.

 

[Hafizzz]

When was the last time Chinese invaded Japan? I simply can not recall.

It doesn't matter. If the Western World and their allies say that China is a threat then China is a "threat". If the Western World says "He is a donkey" then he will be seen as a "donkey" even when he is not.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

Is it because Japan has 655,377 Han Chinese?

Han Nationalist like all nationalists are kind of similar to the germans in Nazi germany.

Anybody that is seen as Han chinese = Good, anybody that is not Han chinese (manchu, mongolian, tibetan) = bad.

No matter how many crimes the Japanese commit they will always be seen as GOOD by the han nationalists because they will be seen as Han.

Similarly the WHITE nationalists see the Russians as good, despite the fact that the Russians destroyed the Nazi's which basically wanted to kill all races that were not considered white. (Whats ironic is that Hitler specifically said that Russians were not white)

Many Han nationalists believe in this legend

Xu Fu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Xú Fú (Chinese: 徐福 or 徐巿, not to be confused with the character 市, Japanese: Jofuku 徐&#31119 was born in 255 BC in Qi, and served as a court sorcerer in Qin Dynasty China. He was sent by Qin Shi Huang to the eastern seas twice to look for the elixir of life.[1] His two journeys occurred between 219 BC and 210 BC. It was believed that the fleet included 60 barques and around 5,000 crew members, 3,000 boys and girls[1], and craftsmen of different fields. After he embarked on a second mission in 210 BC, he never returned. Some sources have pointed to 500 boys and 500 girls instead.[2] Various records suggest that he may have arrived and died in Japan.

Xu then set sail again, but he never returned from this trip. The Records of the Grand Historian says he came to a place with "flat plains and wide swamps" (平原廣&#28580 and proclaimed himself king, never to return.

Han nationalists believe that Xu Fu sailed to Japan and populated Japan with his descendants

 

[siegecrossbow]

If you are interested in Chinese and are interested in learning more about the distinction between Han Nationalists and Zhonghua Nationalists you should visit two separate forums. The Tiexue forum (tiexue.net) has a predominately Zhonghua Nationalist pov. People there tend to support the Chinese government (well, the government under Deng anyways since they consider the present government "weak and corrupt") and emphasis national unity. You can go to the Ming Dynasty forum on baidu to get a feel for the "Huang Han"'s POV. People there tend to support traditional Chinese value (wanting to officialize Hanfu, the traditional Chinese attire and bring back traditional Chinese characters), support the KMT and wants Democratic reform, and tend to bash the Manchus and Mongols a lot. Although both types of Nationalists are branded as "Fenqing" they have radically different political ideologies, with the Zhonghua Nationalists leaning towards the left end of the spectrum and the Han Nationalists leaning towards the right.

I don't think that the Han Nationalists are that much friendlier towards the Japanese. They often emphasis (well some times exaggerate too) the KMT role in the Second Sino-Japanese War and Ming Dynasty involvement in the Imjin War. They also tend to think that Japan is far more of a threat to China (often comparing the current administration to late Qing Dynasty) than Zhonghua Nationalists, who believe that Japan's military capabilities are hampered by U.S. restrictions.

 

[topjumper]

If you are interested in Chinese and are interested in learning more about the distinction between Han Nationalists and Zhonghua Nationalists you should visit two separate forums. The Tiexue forum (tiexue.net) has a predominately Zhonghua Nationalist pov. People there tend to support the Chinese government (well, the government under Deng anyways since they consider the present government "weak and corrupt") and emphasis national unity. You can go to the Ming Dynasty forum on baidu to get a feel for the "Huang Han"'s POV. People there tend to support traditional Chinese value (wanting to officialize Hanfu, the traditional Chinese attire and bring back traditional Chinese characters), support the KMT and wants Democratic reform, and tend to bash the Manchus and Mongols a lot. Although both types of Nationalists are branded as "Fenqing" they have radically different political ideologies, with the Zhonghua Nationalists leaning towards the left end of the spectrum and the Han Nationalists leaning towards the right.

I don't think that the Han Nationalists are that much friendlier towards the Japanese. They often emphasis (well some times exaggerate too) the KMT role in the Second Sino-Japanese War and Ming Dynasty involvement in the Imjin War. They also tend to think that Japan is far more of a threat to China (often comparing the current administration to late Qing Dynasty) than Zhonghua Nationalists, who believe that Japan's military capabilities are hampered by U.S. restrictions.

My my, I must have been out of the country for too long since I'm totally unaware of these political affinities, I am Han myself but by the sound of it I want to have nothing to do with these "Han nationalists", racial difference wasn't a big deal in China and it shouldn't be now.

 

[siegecrossbow]

My my, I must have been out of the country for too long since I'm totally unaware of these political affinities, I am Han myself but by the sound of it I want to have nothing to do with these "Han nationalists", racial difference wasn't a big deal in China and it shouldn't be now.

Don't worry too much about not knowing. The last time I visited China was 2008 and no one really raised the Nationalism issue. I gained most of the knowledge via surfing Chinese forums.

I agree that Han nationalist extremists are a bit on the scary side. They often comment on the "racial superiority and purity" of the Han (going as far as coming up with stories of how the Chinese averaged 6 foot prior to the Manchu invasion) and even talk about exterminating the non-Hans. We'd have another third reich on our hands if they get a say in the decision making (shudders).

 

[topjumper]

Don't worry too much about not knowing. The last time I visited China was 2008 and no one really raised the Nationalism issue. I gained most of the knowledge via surfing Chinese forums.

I agree that Han nationalist extremists are a bit on the scary side. They often comment on the "racial superiority and purity" of the Han (going as far as coming up with stories of how the Chinese averaged 6 foot prior to the Manchu invasion) and even talk about exterminating the non-Hans. We'd have another third reich on our hands if they get a say in the decision making (shudders).

If they get hold of China then a world war will become a lot more likely, I'd rather see China denying everyone's political rights than letting those nutters play racial cards to raise through the power ranks.