Japan to loan ¥5 billion to Pakistan

[That Guy]

I believe that every citizen in Islamic Republic of Pakistan should be able to get affordable electricity. Especially in the areas that are not well developed. It will help in the accommodation of their daily living.

Unfortunately, the subsidies aren't compensated by raising taxes on the rich, or getting rid of tax exemptions, so this problem will continue to go on. Until Pakistan can do what is necessary, I believe that this loan will be wasteful in the long term.

You Chinese or A Japanese??

look at his flags, he's Japanese.

Frankly, we need more Japanese members, seriously.

 

[Aepsilons]

Best the native Japanese do it my friend. With large scale immigration you see a dilution of the culture and people. Some skilled immigration is ok, too much is a no no.

@waz ,

It really depends, brother. I've had the pleasure of working with Americans here in the US and they have very strong work ethic. For example, in my doctoral cohort (there are 18 of us), there's a lot of individuals from different ethnic backgrounds. I've come to see that the work ethic of South Asians are also very strong, dedicated. One of my doctoral research partners is an international student from India and we are doing multivariate analyses on our topics; we also share data. He is what you would say "workaholic".lol. I think it depends really on person to person.

But, we sure could use immigrants with strong professionalism in Japan. And the new blood , cultural influx would be perfect, too. It adds new blood to the gene pool. lol.

 

[mike2000]

Japan, imo, is the best country helping others. US asks for something in return, but Japan doesn't. Their morals are quite good.

Yes i agree. However, i think Japan should follow Chinas example by investing and carrying out the projects themselves instead of just giving aid which is prone to corruption/embezzlement by government officials like its the case in most developing/poor countries.
I have been to several African countries, and i can attest to you that we in the west for 100s of years we have been present/giving aid to Africa has nt helped one bit in improving things there. it has instead create more dependence/encouraged corruption. The people havent seen/benefited of it one bit. They havent even seen/know such aid was ever given.
If you go to almost every african country today, you can see the difference Chinas method has helped. most projects carried out by the Chinese are very visible/can be seen by the people and are less prone to corruption/embezlement since they are carried out by the chinese themselves(which otherwise will have end up in governemnt officials pockets). This is one reason Africans now have a largely favorable view of China than they do to other western countries, Since they can clearly see what they Chinese have brough/helped them in building. Its wayyyy better than Aids which are never seen.
I think our governments in the west should learn/acknowledge their method of aid has largely failed in changing/making a difference in deveoping/poor countries, they sure can learn something from the chinese method. Im sure if they did, it will be more beneficial to the people of Africa and other poor asian countries.
Japan also should look into this AID stuff, and focus on more ways to provide direct investment themselves than just giving free money which they know will be stolen by officials.

 

[waz]

@waz ,

It really depends, brother. I've had the pleasure of working with Americans here in the US and they have very strong work ethic. For example, in my doctoral cohort (there are 18 of us), there's a lot of individuals from different ethnic backgrounds. I've come to see that the work ethic of South Asians are also very strong, dedicated. One of my doctoral research partners is an international student from India and we are doing multivariate analyses on our topics; we also share data. He is what you would say "workaholic".lol. I think it depends really on person to person.

But, we sure could use immigrants with strong professionalism in Japan. And the new blood , cultural influx would be perfect, too. It adds new blood to the gene pool. lol.

I suppose, highly skilled is ok. There are indeed many a talent person out there. I believe nation should rely from within. It would be good if you guys could attract Brazilian Japanese back.

 

[American Pakistani]

@OCguy @Nihonjin1051

My friend you don't seem to understand it, do you? Indeed US has spend billions of $$(may be double of what other countries together have spend) but the problem is that US money never benefit common man of Pakistan. Politicians never spend that money for the benefit of the people of Pakistan & instead deposit all of it in Swiss, London, Dubai, etc bank accounts. If you ask Pakistani people to choose from aid or trade...without hesitation they will pick trade...so US should expand trade ties. Stop providing free lunches/aid/$$ to Pakistani politicians & instead invest/trade with Pakistan.

As an American with Pakistani origin i wish to see Pakistan's close relations with all these countries like China, US, Japan, Russia, etc. I also wish Pakistan help bring China, US & Japan come closer.

 

[The SC]

Micro nuclear reactor

Micro nuclear reactors could be used to power large vessels, production facilities (e.g. water purification, or mines), or small (remote) villages.
Micro nuclear reactor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Toshiba 4S

The plant design is offered by a partnership that includes Toshiba and the Central Research Institute of Electric Power Industry (CRIEPI) of Japan.[1]

The technical specifications of the 4S reactor are unique in the nuclear industry.[2] The actual reactor would be located in a sealed, cylindrical vault 30 m (98 ft) underground, while the building above ground would be 22×16×11 m (72×52.5×36 ft) in size. This power plant is designed to provide 10 megawatts of electrical power with a 50 MW version available in the future.[3]

The 4S is a fast neutron sodium reactor. It uses neutron reflector panels around the perimeter to maintain neutron density. These reflector panels replace complicated control rods, yet keep the ability to shut down the nuclear reaction in case of an emergency. Additionally, the Toshiba 4S utilizes liquid sodium as a coolant, allowing the reactor to operate 200 degrees hotter than if it used water. Although water would readily boil at these temperatures, sodium remains a liquid; the sodium coolant therefore exerts very low pressure on the reactor vessel even at extremely high temperatures.

The Toshiba 4S Nuclear Battery was proposed as the power source for the Galena Nuclear Power Plant in Alaska, but the project was abandoned and Toshiba did not proceed with an application for certification of the design

Toshiba 4S - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is one example of many (see first link), so I would like to ask members for what they think of it as a solution to some of Pakistan's electricity shortages.

 

[WishLivePak]

I think pakistan should go for big dams. Small ones come when you've no bug dams left to construct.

Instead of 300 small dams, make one big dam! That way progress is faster and you can concentrate better.

 

[The SC]

I think pakistan should go for big dams. Small ones come when you've no bug dams left to construct.

Instead of 300 small dams, make one big dam! That way progress is faster and you can concentrate better.

Pakistan had water issues with India which have threatened its water supplies. So building a big Dam is quite risky in case of a conflict, since it can play in the hands of India. So, strategically it is better to build numerous dams than one big one Like the Aswan in Egypt that can be threatened anytime now by Ethiopia's higher dam.

 

[WishLivePak]

Pakistan had water issues with India which have threatened its water supplies. So building a big Dam is quite risky in case of a conflict, since it can play in the hands of India. So, strategically it is better to build numerous dams than one big one Like the Aswan in Egypt that can be threatened anytime now by Ethiopia's higher dam.

Isn't dasu or diamer coming away from indian land?

If both completed, that's like 9gw. 2 dams vs 900 x 10w dams etc. Easier to manage 2 big dams too. Nonetheless, we still need small dams near remote areas and also prevent line losses.

Pakistan should invest in coal electricity until we get 2 big dams. Meanwhile concentrate on education, make small schools etc, and important revenue bringing infastructures, such as airports, railway etc.

Remember, bijli can come any day. But education is lost for a generation of people. That generation may never be educated again. Also, as i said before, once subsidy is removed, people will use less electricity. This means lesser load shedding. In addition, no more loss making, circular debt and profit which can be used to make bijli house than rely on loans, grants etc, which should only be used for education.

How stupid is it to take loans to buy military goods, offer cheap tickets for metro or electricity.

 

[Aepsilons]

Yes i agree. However, i think Japan should follow Chinas example by investing and carrying out the projects themselves instead of just giving aid which is prone to corruption/embezzlement by government officials like its the case in most developing/poor countries.
I have been to several African countries, and i can attest to you that we in the west for 100s of years we have been present/giving aid to Africa has nt helped one bit in improving things there. it has instead create more dependence/encouraged corruption. The people havent seen/benefited of it one bit. They havent even seen/know such aid was ever given.
If you go to almost every african country today, you can see the difference Chinas method has helped. most projects carried out by the Chinese are very visible/can be seen by the people and are less prone to corruption/embezlement since they are carried out by the chinese themselves(which otherwise will have end up in governemnt officials pockets). This is one reason Africans now have a largely favorable view of China than they do to other western countries, Since they can clearly see what they Chinese have brough/helped them in building. Its wayyyy better than Aids which are never seen.
I think our governments in the west should learn/acknowledge their method of aid has largely failed in changing/making a difference in deveoping/poor countries, they sure can learn something from the chinese method. Im sure if they did, it will be more beneficial to the people of Africa and other poor asian countries.
Japan also should look into this AID stuff, and focus on more ways to provide direct investment themselves than just giving free money which they know will be stolen by officials.

I totally agree @mike2000 . In fact, i think Japanese government should focus on investing in infrastructure in term so hospitals, schools, water for the under-developed SWAT valley, areas in the North West region of Pakistan. I believe that the reason why there is so much instability there is because it is largely undeveloped as compared to the rest of the country. Everyone knows when you increase the livelihood of a person, per se in education, good paying jobs, running water, electricity, you increase his or her satisfaction. Also, I think the United States needs to stop with their Drone strikes , which does not help to build American - Pakistani conidence. It only builds animosity, and it only militarizes the local tribal regions.

The Americans can learn a lot from the way they treated Japanese post - war. Before the war ended, Japanese population was worst than in north west pakistan; as the entire country was ready to fight to the death. The United States , after the war, changed their policy of bombing to rebuilding and investing in winning the hearts and minds of japanese civilians.

How did they do this: Building schools, rebuilding hospitals, more homes, investing in businesses.

The United States can use the same policies i think with Pakistan.

And the same , too, for Japan in regards to Pakistan. We know very well how it is like to rebuild from ashes.....

 

[Dubious]

Micro nuclear reactor

Micro nuclear reactors could be used to power large vessels, production facilities (e.g. water purification, or mines), or small (remote) villages.
Micro nuclear reactor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Toshiba 4S

The plant design is offered by a partnership that includes Toshiba and the Central Research Institute of Electric Power Industry (CRIEPI) of Japan.[1]

The technical specifications of the 4S reactor are unique in the nuclear industry.[2] The actual reactor would be located in a sealed, cylindrical vault 30 m (98 ft) underground, while the building above ground would be 22×16×11 m (72×52.5×36 ft) in size. This power plant is designed to provide 10 megawatts of electrical power with a 50 MW version available in the future.[3]

The 4S is a fast neutron sodium reactor. It uses neutron reflector panels around the perimeter to maintain neutron density. These reflector panels replace complicated control rods, yet keep the ability to shut down the nuclear reaction in case of an emergency. Additionally, the Toshiba 4S utilizes liquid sodium as a coolant, allowing the reactor to operate 200 degrees hotter than if it used water. Although water would readily boil at these temperatures, sodium remains a liquid; the sodium coolant therefore exerts very low pressure on the reactor vessel even at extremely high temperatures.

The Toshiba 4S Nuclear Battery was proposed as the power source for the Galena Nuclear Power Plant in Alaska, but the project was abandoned and Toshiba did not proceed with an application for certification of the design

Toshiba 4S - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is one example of many (see first link), so I would like to ask members for what they think of it as a solution to some of Pakistan's electricity shortages.

Arent nuclear reactors dangerous?

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Pakistan had water issues with India which have threatened its water supplies. So building a big Dam is quite risky in case of a conflict, since it can play in the hands of India. So, strategically it is better to build numerous dams than one big one Like the Aswan in Egypt that can be threatened anytime now by Ethiopia's higher dam.

You don't make much sense. They can destroy Pakistani dams no doubt but reaction will be similar. Nothing can replace huge dams like Basha, Bunji and Dasu combined capacity of 16.000 MW by 2025. Also India doesnt have sites in IoK to build dams with huge capacity for water storage.

The dams there are run of river, so they only generate electricity.

 

[WishLivePak]

Arent nuclear reactors dangerous?

especially smaller ones. less damage but harder to manage. How hard is it to secure 10 small airport than one big airport, right?

 

[The SC]

Isn't dasu or diamer coming away from indian land?

If both completed, that's like 9gw. 2 dams vs 900 x 10w dams etc. Easier to manage 2 big dams too. Nonetheless, we still need small dams near remote areas and also prevent line losses.

Pakistan should invest in coal electricity until we get 2 big dams. Meanwhile concentrate on education, make small schools etc, and important revenue bringing infastructures, such as airports, railway etc.

Remember, bijli can come any day. But education is lost for a generation of people. That generation may never be educated again. Also, as i said before, once subsidy is removed, people will use less electricity. This means lesser load shedding. In addition, no more loss making, circular debt and profit which can be used to make bijli house than rely on loans, grants etc, which should only be used for education.

How stupid is it to take loans to buy military goods, offer cheap tickets for metro or electricity.

Education is the key, I agree with you.
Military matters in Pakistan"s situation should not be mixed with civilian social matters though.

Arent nuclear reactors dangerous?

These are supposed to be very safe.

 

[Dubious]

Education is the key, I agree with you.
Military matters in Pakistan"s situation should not be mixed with civilian social matters though.


These are supposed to be very safe.

Unless Chernobyl happens or maybe a tsunami ...