Japan seeks defence ties with Asean

[jhungary]

At least blocking oil route from SIng to Guam will make Guam people's life harder, they have to pay more money for their living. Guam people will get angry with your Govt. and wanna declare independence


Russia naval fleet in Cam Ranh bay will handle the 7th fleet like before 1990 and they will block oil route when Russia decide to kick US out of Guam

lol..........

Are you are Joker or a Dreamer??

First of all, you now switch to independent now wow, what a quick change.

Again, oil price getting higher everyday. Not just in the United States, did you notice in your country oil price have risen in recent year, are you gonna say, oh this will make some of the city in Vietnam go independent??

Saying that see thru how unknowledgable you are with your basic economic principle.

Do you even know how much more expensive if we don't transport stuff from SCS?? Let me tell you this, a Double of whatever we are paying imply the route we are running is double in length (proportional estimate) Double of your purposed route (Middle East -> Indian Ocean -> Malacca Strait -> Singapore -> Guam mean you start transporting the item back in US Eastern Seaboard. So because of this, we know for sure the gas price and food price will not double, realistically will be increase by a 25%, which in percentage it's a big on % but not big on money in term

Then ,as i said before Blockading SCS is an act of war. You seriously think Russian Navy and Vietnam Navy stand a chance with a Combine Strength of China and US Pacific Fleet (Pacific Fleet comprise of 3rd and 7th Fleet, while the 3rd Fleet stationed in Hawaii/California, 7th Stationed in Japan).

Let see shall we?

Overall ship strength of Russian Navy

List of current Russian Navy ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Air Carrier -1
Heavy Cruiser - 3
Cuiser - 4
Destroyer -18
Ballistic Missile Submarine - 13
Cruiser Missile Submarine - 8
Nuclear Attack Submarine - 18
Diesel Submarine - 20
Frigate - 5
Corvette - 73

Other combat support ship - 64

Overall Ship Strength of Vietnam Navy

Vietnam People's Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aircraft Carrier - 0
Heavy Cruiser - 0
Cruiser - 0
Destroyer - 0
Ballistic Submarine - 0
Nuclear Attack submarine - 0
Diesel Attack Submarine - 6
Frigate - 7
Corvette - 40

Other combat support ship - 16

Verus

Overall Strength of People Liberation Army Navy

List of active People's Liberation Army Navy ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aircraft carrier - 1
Heavy Cruiser - 0
Cruiser - 0
Destroyer - 26
Frigate - 48
Ballistic Missile Submarine - 4
Nuclear attack submarine - 5
Diesel attack submarine - 50
Corvette - 120

Other combat support ship - 300 +

Overall Strength of United States Pacific Fleet (Not the whole US Navy)

List of units of the United States Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fleet Aircraft Carrier - 6 (6 Carrier Battle Group 5 from 3rd 1 from 7th)
Landing Dock Carrier - 4 (LHD 2,4,6,8)
Heavy Cruiser - 13 (2 for each Carrier Group + 1 from Cruiser- destroyer squadron 1)
Cruiser - 0
Destroyer - 30 + ( 6 Destroyer Squadron , 5/6 per Squadron)
Ballistic Submarine - 5 (Submarine Sqn 17)
Nuclear Attack Submarine - 30 + (6 Submarine Squadron, 5/6 Each)
Frigate - 12 (2 per Destroyer squadron)
Corvette/Gunboat - 100+ (Shore defence + Inland Patrol Group)

Other combat support ship 400-500

You sure this is a match?? I also discounted the US Atlantic Fleet, the Japan Maritime Self Defence Force, South Korean Navy also the Singaporean Navy which all 3 have defence treaty to USA and have to assist the area if WAR Do broke out and it will do if Vietnam mine the SCS.

You sure Russia have the stuff to go against these??

 

[tranquilium]

@tranquilium
I got a question to you and Chinese in general.
You have figured out correctly, Vietnam is small and weak in all terms if compared to China. So why does China continue to keep the policy of holding down Vietnam? Why Vietnam? Why not other nations in East and South East Asia, not to mention South Asia.

If history is a guide, I want to understand why China attacked and invaded Vietnam more than a dozen times (17 times to be precise). But the interesting thing is China seemed to be not interested in other immediate neighbors such as Korea, Laos, Thailand, Burma, Philippines, etc...The latter were and are much weaker than Vietnam. China could have taken them easily.

So virtually China has kept a closer eye on Vietnam, going back since the founding of Vietnam or Nam Viet in 200 bc. So why China has chosen Vietnam and not others? In short, China is keen to keep Vietnam weak and poor.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Well, I don't have an answer for Laos, Thailand, Burma. Historically Philippines is simply too far away. As for Korea, no offense to the Koreans, but the official reason can essentially be boiled down to "the land sucked so badly that we don't want anything to do with it." Remember, Korean Peninsula have rater limited resources. It is also full of mountain and have high latitude (thus bad for agriculture) to boot. It is honestly not a good place to live for the ancient people.

Actually thanks to China and US policy after the US defeat in 1975, Vietnam lost nearly another 15 years of economic development. Its economy first recovered in 1990. True is, Vietnam leaders followed more or less China model of economic reform.

Without the three devastating Indochina wars (France, America and China), perhaps Vietnam today would be rich and properous like other in the region (Singapore and Taiwan).

I doubt it will be the same thing. Nowadays, Taiwan's main income comes from hedged trade with mainland China. Essentially, the mainland purposely import more stuff from Taiwan to keep its economy float. The reason for this is because Taiwan occupies a very important strategic location for China. However, in order to get Taiwan back, China would have to deal with US and quite frankly, it will be an event a few decades down the road. So currently, the mainland government is simply content with the status quo, but if Taiwan's economy collapse right now, then China will have to divert resources and effort to help them, this will slow China's economic progress. To put it simply, China has bigger fish to fry and if hedged trade is required to keep Taiwan stable, then it is a small sacrifice. Vietnam's situation is completely different. It does not have a much bigger and richer cousin to bail them out of a bad situation.
The Singapore situation is even less comparable. Singapore is small, really small. As in, they just need to build a single port and the tourists alone can feed the entire nation, or city-state. Vietnam, on the other hand, have 88 million population. It is way too big for tourism alone to feed.

LOL you don´t have the info? I think Chinese history textbooks only tell you that China is a peace loving country.
Answer me the question I raised in post #125...in the meantime I can look for the list.

No offense to you, but if the conflict involves less than 50 thousand soldiers, it is probably just a single sentence in some very thick history book. i.e. xxx year, we had conflict with xxx at xxx, we won.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Discourse: Japan’s future lies in ASEAN, envoy says
The Jakarta Post | World | Fri, March 22 2013, 12:21 PM


The year 2013 marks the 40th anniversary of ASEAN-Japan relations, which began in 1973 with the establishment of the ASEAN-Japan forum on synthetic rubber. Over the years, they have forged close cooperation on peace, stability, development and prosperity. They have also established a close business partnership, with total bilateral trade amounting to US$248 billion.

At present, Japan is emphasizing connectivity enhancement, disaster management and human-to-human relations as the major pillars of its cooperation with ASEAN. Japanese Ambassador for ASEAN Kimihiro Ishikane talks to The Jakarta Post’s Yohanna Ririhena on these issues.

Question: Japan has a huge presence in every nation in Southeast Asia. Why is it important for Japan to assign another ASEAN envoy?

Answer: The answer to that question is the answer to the question of why ASEAN is building a community. I think because ASEAN wishes to have something more than just 10 individual countries. With community, ASEAN is pursuing added value, which comes from networking or connectivity. By networking, the 10 countries will be stronger than if they were on their own. A stronger ASEAN is, of course, in Japan’s interests, as a market and production center.

The many Japanese companies operating across the region constitute a kind of supply chain. That means connecting ASEAN to the interests of Japanese companies as well. In connectivity and networking, we would like to work with ASEAN because our future lies in this region.

When did Japan start to think that ASEAN was really important?

This region has always been very important for Japan as a market and investment destination. Strategically, our sea lane passes through it. More than 85 percent of our crude oil from the Middle East travels through this region. So, ASEAN stability is extremely important.

ASEAN is economically very vibrant. The growing market is here, with more than 600 million, mostly young, people.

The year 2013 marks 40 years of ASEAN-Japan relations. What has been achieved so far?

After 40 years of cooperation, we have achieved a lot. Japan and ASEAN are so closely connected in terms of economy and investment. For Japan, ASEAN is its number-two trading partner after China. For ASEAN, Japan is its number-two trading partner after China and its top individual country investor. According to a survey, eight ASEAN countries appear on a top-20 list of countries that will attract Japanese investment within two to three years.

In terms of human relations, we have a number of exchange programs, such as Jenesys, which was launched in 2010. Since then, 13,000 ASEAN youths visited Japan, and another 10,000 will arrive during phase two, which began in 2012.

Connectivity enhancement, disaster management and human-to-human relations are the major pillars upon which Japan will concentrate its energy in the region.

How does Japan contribute to the process of community?

First, Japan invests most of its wisdom, energy and resources to connectivity. We set up a task force in Tokyo comprising private firms and government agencies to talk about what we could do. Since 2011, we have been gradually implementing concrete projects to enhance connectivity. We are entering a more difficult stage in institutional connectivity, however.

Second, is disaster management. Like Japan, the ASEAN region is also prone to natural disasters. Disaster management touches on humanitarian action, community building and economic aspects. This supply chain was disrupted when the tsunami hit Japan and floods hit Thailand. We need to make this supply chain resilient. When it is disrupted, we need to recover quickly.

For that purpose, we have been cooperating closely with the ASEAN Coordinating Center for Humanitarian Assistance on disaster management (AHA Center).

How much does Japan spend on connectivity projects?

I cannot tell you how much money will come from the government because there are many tools of cooperation. Of course, the traditional cooperation tool comes from Overseas Development Assistance (ODA).

When it comes to major infrastructure and construction projects, we will use yen loans. However, loans will not be sufficient to meet the huge demands in this region. Some say physical infrastructure will require $10 trillion over 10 years. ODA, therefore, will not be enough; we need to bring in private money. When we announced major flagship connectivity projects in 2011, the overall amount needed for construction was ¥2 trillion.

We need to work with ASEAN countries to set up a legal system and financial mechanism to ensure this. That is why we need public-private partnership (PPP) agreements.

China has become a vital player in the region and has surpassed Japan as the world’s second-largest economy. How will Japan balance China’s assertiveness in the ASEAN region?

China has become very big. But we all agree that China also offers huge opportunities and challenges as a market and production center. We need to interact so that we can really maximize cooperation for our mutual benefits.

On the other hand, it is true that there are some uncertainty and ambiguity about how China plans to behave in the region. This leads to some concern, but we need to address this issue mainly through engagement. We have seen many things taking shape with ASEAN as a center: I think ASEAN offers us the chance to work together, along with China, to build a better model from which we can all benefit.

Looking at recent tensions over the East China Sea, does Japan regard ASEAN as more important than ever?

We are determined to manage the tensions, not to raise them. Some businesspeople have witnessed very difficult situations in carrying out their business in China when tensions arise. As a market, China remains significant because of its population, while as a production center, it is also important. However, ASEAN is becoming increasingly important.

Discourse: Japan

 

[tranquilium]

lol..........
Are you are Joker or a Dreamer??
First of all, you now switch to independent now wow, what a quick change.
Again, oil price getting higher everyday. Not just in the United States, did you notice in your country oil price have risen in recent year, are you gonna say, oh this will make some of the city in Vietnam go independent??
Saying that see thru how unknowledgable you are with your basic economic principle.
Do you even know how much more expensive if we don't transport stuff from SCS?? Let me tell you this, a Double of whatever we are paying imply the route we are running is double in length (proportional estimate) Double of your purposed route (Middle East -> Indian Ocean -> Malacca Strait -> Singapore -> Guam mean you start transporting the item back in US Eastern Seaboard. So because of this, we know for sure the gas price and food price will not double, realistically will be increase by a 25%, which in percentage it's a big on % but not big on money in term
Then ,as i said before Blockading SCS is an act of war. You seriously think Russian Navy and Vietnam Navy stand a chance with a Combine Strength of China and US Pacific Fleet (Pacific Fleet comprise of 3rd and 7th Fleet, while the 3rd Fleet stationed in Hawaii/California, 7th Stationed in Japan).

Let see shall we?

Overall ship strength of Russian Navy

List of current Russian Navy ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Air Carrier -1
Heavy Cruiser - 3
Cuiser - 4
Destroyer -18
Ballistic Missile Submarine - 13
Cruiser Missile Submarine - 8
Nuclear Attack Submarine - 18
Diesel Submarine - 20
Frigate - 5
Corvette - 73

Other combat support ship - 64

Overall Ship Strength of Vietnam Navy

Vietnam People's Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aircraft Carrier - 0
Heavy Cruiser - 0
Cruiser - 0
Destroyer - 0
Ballistic Submarine - 0
Nuclear Attack submarine - 0
Diesel Attack Submarine - 6
Frigate - 7
Corvette - 40

Other combat support ship - 16

Verus

Overall Strength of People Liberation Army Navy

List of active People's Liberation Army Navy ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aircraft carrier - 1
Heavy Cruiser - 0
Cruiser - 0
Destroyer - 26
Frigate - 48
Ballistic Missile Submarine - 4
Nuclear attack submarine - 5
Diesel attack submarine - 50
Corvette - 120

Other combat support ship - 300 +

Overall Strength of United States Pacific Fleet (Not the whole US Navy)

List of units of the United States Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fleet Aircraft Carrier - 6 (6 Carrier Battle Group 5 from 3rd 1 from 7th)
Landing Dock Carrier - 4 (LHD 2,4,6,8)
Heavy Cruiser - 13 (2 for each Carrier Group + 1 from Cruiser- destroyer squadron 1)
Cruiser - 0
Destroyer - 30 + ( 6 Destroyer Squadron , 5/6 per Squadron)
Ballistic Submarine - 5 (Submarine Sqn 17)
Nuclear Attack Submarine - 30 + (6 Submarine Squadron, 5/6 Each)
Frigate - 12 (2 per Destroyer squadron)
Corvette/Gunboat - 100+ (Shore defence + Inland Patrol Group)

Other combat support ship 400-500

You sure this is a match?? I also discounted the US Atlantic Fleet, the Japan Maritime Self Defence Force, South Korean Navy also the Singaporean Navy which all 3 have defence treaty to USA and have to assist the area if WAR Do broke out and it will do if Vietnam mine the SCS.

You sure Russia have the stuff to go against these??

I think way too many people think USSR when they are, in fact, talking about Russia Federation. Russia Federation is NOT USSR by a very very wide margin. Russia have less than half of the population of USSR. The main agriculture, industrial and technological of USSR is gone when Ukraine went independent and the failure reforms in 90s devastated and de-industrialized Russia, forcing many vessels from the old USSR navy to rot in their docks. Losing the black sea shipyard is an especially big blow, considering that all the aircraft carriers of USSR were built there. (BTW, one of the reason Russia is currently taking their sweet time on the Indian carrier is because Putin is trying to use that carrier as practice, so Russia shipwrights can gain valuable experience)
Currently, fighting US navy is not an option for any single nation during an oversea conflict. It is possible for major nations such as Russia and China to fight US off if the conflict happens within the range of their land-based convention missile/aircraft. However, Vietnam does not possess such abilities.

 

[Viva_Viet]

lol..........

Are you are Joker or a Dreamer??

First of all, you now switch to independent now wow, what a quick change.

Again, oil price getting higher everyday. Not just in the United States, did you notice in your country oil price have risen in recent year, are you gonna say, oh this will make some of the city in Vietnam go independent??

Saying that see thru how unknowledgable you are with your basic economic principle.

Do you even know how much more expensive if we don't transport stuff from SCS?? Let me tell you this, a Double of whatever we are paying imply the route we are running is double in length (proportional estimate) Double of your purposed route (Middle East -> Indian Ocean -> Malacca Strait -> Singapore -> Guam mean you start transporting the item back in US Eastern Seaboard. So because of this, we know for sure the gas price and food price will not double, realistically will be increase by a 25%, which in percentage it's a big on % but not big on money in term

Then ,as i said before Blockading SCS is an act of war. You seriously think Russian Navy and Vietnam Navy stand a chance with a Combine Strength of China and US Pacific Fleet (Pacific Fleet comprise of 3rd and 7th Fleet, while the 3rd Fleet stationed in Hawaii/California, 7th Stationed in Japan).

Let see shall we?

Overall ship strength of Russian Navy

List of current Russian Navy ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Air Carrier -1
Heavy Cruiser - 3
Cuiser - 4
Destroyer -18
Ballistic Missile Submarine - 13
Cruiser Missile Submarine - 8
Nuclear Attack Submarine - 18
Diesel Submarine - 20
Frigate - 5
Corvette - 73

Other combat support ship - 64

Overall Ship Strength of Vietnam Navy

Vietnam People's Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aircraft Carrier - 0
Heavy Cruiser - 0
Cruiser - 0
Destroyer - 0
Ballistic Submarine - 0
Nuclear Attack submarine - 0
Diesel Attack Submarine - 6
Frigate - 7
Corvette - 40

Other combat support ship - 16

Verus

Overall Strength of People Liberation Army Navy

List of active People's Liberation Army Navy ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aircraft carrier - 1
Heavy Cruiser - 0
Cruiser - 0
Destroyer - 26
Frigate - 48
Ballistic Missile Submarine - 4
Nuclear attack submarine - 5
Diesel attack submarine - 50
Corvette - 120

Other combat support ship - 300 +

Overall Strength of United States Pacific Fleet (Not the whole US Navy)

List of units of the United States Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fleet Aircraft Carrier - 6 (6 Carrier Battle Group 5 from 3rd 1 from 7th)
Landing Dock Carrier - 4 (LHD 2,4,6,8)
Heavy Cruiser - 13 (2 for each Carrier Group + 1 from Cruiser- destroyer squadron 1)
Cruiser - 0
Destroyer - 30 + ( 6 Destroyer Squadron , 5/6 per Squadron)
Ballistic Submarine - 5 (Submarine Sqn 17)
Nuclear Attack Submarine - 30 + (6 Submarine Squadron, 5/6 Each)
Frigate - 12 (2 per Destroyer squadron)
Corvette/Gunboat - 100+ (Shore defence + Inland Patrol Group)

Other combat support ship 400-500

You sure this is a match?? I also discounted the US Atlantic Fleet, the Japan Maritime Self Defence Force, South Korean Navy also the Singaporean Navy which all 3 have defence treaty to USA and have to assist the area if WAR Do broke out and it will do if Vietnam mine the SCS.

You sure Russia have the stuff to go against these??

US still lose. Simple reason: US big warship, carrier can not enter SCS(east sea) to fire to VietNam's soil coz they will face with anti-ship missile, Su-30, Russia Tu-bomber, VN+ Russia fleet.

US fleet also can't stay out side SCS(east sea) to fire to VN's soil coz your missile must passs by Phillipine or Indonesia's territory, and they never allow you to fire your misssile over their lands.

So, no chance for US to win against VN+ Russia in SCS-Malacca

US fleet is incapable to break this circle defense protected by Vn-Russia forces

I don't think Japan-Singapore will help US in war against Vn again, VN is close to SIng, Japan is close to Russia, when US is too far away. Old Chinese or VNese said:' the far water can't put down the near fire '

 

[EastSea]

You are so naive how I should hurt you more?

Learn from Chinese experience: work, produce, develop, and live a better life before you talk big...

Dirty aggressors ran away, it's truth, no need to talk big.

 

[faithfulguy]

At least blocking oil route from SIng to Guam will make Guam people's life harder, they have to pay more money for their living. Guam people will get angry with your Govt. and wanna declare independence

US also will lose its weapon market in ASEAN,too.


Russia naval fleet in Cam Ranh bay will handle the 7th fleet like before 1990 and they will block oil route when Russia decide to kick US out of Guam

Why would Russian want to block US oil route? For Vietcong? Russian navy was the weakest of its arm forces even during the Soviet time as its more of a land power. So Russia is not able to handle the US. Face it, don't get other people to do work for you. If you have guts, you ought to do it yourself.

 

[jhungary]

US still lose. Simple reason: US big warship, carrier can not enter SCS(east sea) to fire to VietNam's soil coz they will face with anti-ship missile, Su-30, Russia Tu-bomber, VN+ Russia fleet.

US fleet also can't stay out side SCS(east sea) to fire to VN's soil coz your missile must passs by Phillipine or Indonesia's territory, and they never allow you to fire your misssile over their lands.

So, no chance for US to win against VN+ Russia in SCS-Malacca

US fleet is incapable to break this circle defense protected by Vn-Russia forces

I don't think Japan-Singapore will help US in war against Vn again, VN is close to SIng, Japan is close to Russia, when US is too far away. Old Chinese or VNese said:' the far water can't put down the near fire '

ARE.YOU.FOR.REAL??

Simple reason: US big warship, carrier can not enter SCS(east sea) to fire to VietNam's soil coz they will face with anti-ship missile, Su-30, Russia Tu-bomber, VN+ Russia fleet

The whole point of getting aircraft carrier is for a Navy to engage a Beyond Visual Range Naval battle. Why would our carrier approach your coast to fight in the first place? The carrier hull itself is useless, tactically you need to place them as far away the battlefield as possible, their job is only to launch sortie.

Do you know what is the combat range of a single F/A-18E/F Superhornet??

Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Full Combat range is 722Km with full payload and 10 minutes station time. With Aeriel refueling, you have double the range. That's 1444 KM combat radius

Do you know the range of a Scud B missile Vietnam Process in their arsenal??

300 KM conventional warhead, 500KM range with upgraded warhead

Do you even know what that mean??

The further your missile can shoot is up to the coast near macau( As you pointed them out the the map you quote.) US Navy can literally park outside the coast of Hong Kong which is 600KM away and launch aircraft and all the Eastern Vietnam coast are cover by 6 Aircraft carrier from US, for thsoe who don't know is nearly 250 F/A-18 Superhornet. We do not need to station outside Philippine to launch our cruise missile too. We can just anchor near the south of Taiwan strait which is 800 KM from Vietnam East coast, If we send our C-2 or KC-10 Tanker out to refuel the final leg of the journey.

Not to mention China have Missile battery and combat airfield deployed in Hainan Island. Which you cannot sink. And China have about 200 Fighter allocated on those regional command. Whatever you say can happen is also true in Chinese case, they can simply launch Anti-ship cruise missile and target any Shipping inside SCS , Russia or Vietnam, from Hainan Island. And they are well within range of the Chinese Missile. Not to mention in case a war like this happen, China may allow the US to station equipment or ship near Chinese Coast. Then you are not talking about Chinese Missile, but you are talking about US's Tomahawk and AGM-129

Then a combine US-China air arms can cover twice the number of combine VN/Russia Air arms.

China alone have 1600 fighter all over China, even discounted the older 3rd Generation aircraft,China still have about 400 Advance fighter(Su-27/J-11, J-10, Su30) . 6 US carrier will have a compliment of 248 FA-18 Hornet. 4 LHA will have a compliment of 98-100 AV-8B. US have about 200 F-15E, F-16(8 Wing in Kusan, 18 Wing in Kadena, 35 Wing in Misawa, 36 Wing in Andersen, 51 Fighter Wing in Onsan) stationed in Airbases in Guam, South Korea and Japan. That a combine Chinese-US Navy - US Airforce strength of about 1000 advance Fighter aircraft in the region and more than 2000 fighters in all, verus the combine strength of

34 SU-30/SU-27 from the Airforce of Vietnam
100 Mig-21 from the Airforce of Vietnam
300 Su-27/Su-30 from Airforce of Russia Federation
250 Mig 29 from Airforce of Russia Federation
25 Su-33/Su-35 Variant
200 Mig-31

You sure this is enough??

Also, don't talk to me on whether Japan or Korean joint the fight, in my estimation, i do not count them as part of the fight, i said so already, if they do, even Russia can do nothing and the game is set for Russia and Vietnam. You can hope the Rusky come help you with your stupid dream of Domination. What you can't see is, Russian see you as pawn. It's just some people who suckle on their armament tits. You are not even India, at least the rate they buy stuff, Russian would need to give a damn about. With the small Armamemt deal Vietnam have, it's kind of unlikely Russian will stick their head out for Vietnam in case of any crazy war that could isolate them further. What, for just 20 billions deal of arms?? Indian alone bought 6 times that......Not to even mention China have a great deal of Arms with Russian, why Russia need to take your side but not the Chinese??

 

[tranquilium]

You sure this is enough??

Also, don't talk to me on whether Japan or Korean joint the fight, in my estimation, i do not count them as part of the fight, i said so already, if they do, even Russia can do nothing and the game is set for Russia and Vietnam. You can hope the Rusky come help you with your stupid dream of Domination. What you can't see is, Russian see you as pawn. It's just some people who suckle on their armament tits. You are not even India, at least the rate they buy stuff, Russian would need to give a damn about. With the small Armamemt deal Vietnam have, it's kind of unlikely Russian will stick their head out for Vietnam in case of any crazy war that could isolate them further. What, for just 20 billions deal of arms?? Indian alone bought 6 times that......Not to even mention China have a great deal of Arms with Russian, why Russia need to take your side but not the Chinese??

I am curious why is the navy even mentioned. Vietnam and China share a land border after all.

 

[PITA]

Something doesn't make sense here. I'm assuming one of those dots are HCM city. At least it seems like the general area. If that's the case, Macau is 1500 km away. A Scub B, as jhungry, indicated has a range of 700 km. Even Hainan from HCM city is 800 km. Don't take my word for it, google it yourself.

Distance Calculator - How far is it from Macau – Macau...

Am I missing something here?

 

[Viva_Viet]

ARE.YOU.FOR.REAL??

The whole point of getting aircraft carrier is for a Navy to engage a Beyond Visual Range Naval battle. Why would our carrier approach your coast to fight in the first place? The carrier hull itself is useless, tactically you need to place them as far away the battlefield as possible, their job is only to launch sortie.

Do you know what is the combat range of a single F/A-18E/F Superhornet??

Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Full Combat range is 722Km with full payload and 10 minutes station time. With Aeriel refueling, you have double the range. That's 1444 KM combat radius

Do you know the range of a Scud B missile Vietnam Process in their arsenal??

300 KM conventional warhead, 500KM range with upgraded warhead

Do you even know what that mean??

The further your missile can shoot is up to the coast near macau( As you pointed them out the the map you quote.) US Navy can literally park outside the coast of Hong Kong which is 600KM away and launch aircraft and all the Eastern Vietnam coast are cover by 6 Aircraft carrier from US, for thsoe who don't know is nearly 250 F/A-18 Superhornet. We do not need to station outside Philippine to launch our cruise missile too. We can just anchor near the south of Taiwan strait which is 800 KM from Vietnam East coast, If we send our C-2 or KC-10 Tanker out to refuel the final leg of the journey.

Not to mention China have Missile battery and combat airfield deployed in Hainan Island. Which you cannot sink. And China have about 200 Fighter allocated on those regional command. Whatever you say can happen is also true in Chinese case, they can simply launch Anti-ship cruise missile and target any Shipping inside SCS , Russia or Vietnam, from Hainan Island. And they are well within range of the Chinese Missile. Not to mention in case a war like this happen, China may allow the US to station equipment or ship near Chinese Coast. Then you are not talking about Chinese Missile, but you are talking about US's Tomahawk and AGM-129
??

Dude, I said " we can't fight against US-China combine, so we have to make friend with one and fight with another", so don't drag China in when VN-Russia start a new war with you. We won't make same mistake like in 1979 when China colluded with US to attack VN.

When we start a new war with you, then we will make friend with China again, VN-Russia will bribe corrupted leader Xi and blah blah that : " VN-China are golden Communist brothers , we will help big Brother China to take back Taiwan.. etc...", then, US will have No chance to station its troops near Taiwan anymore . DOn't ask me why we can make friend with China again, it's just like you ask me why VN is US friend now even when VN always willing to help Russia to attack ur Guam. Your leader Obama is a big corrupted one like Mr.Xi too ..

So US fleet can't attack VN from anywhere. even you find somewhere to station your troops to attack VN, you still will be defeat in long hard war again. Fighting against VN just like playing Marathon game, it's not abt how fast but how Long u can run. You think your loser troop can fight a 20 years war with VN again ??

 

[PITA]

I'm still not sure why Russia would come to aid Vietnam.

Even if they did, why would the commit their entire navy to do it? They have an insane distance to cover for their own coast. The US subs in the area would probably be enough to do the job.

Also, what makes you think playing nice with China would do anything? Lets assume China stays out of it. The US has enough there to do the job multiple times over. After that, all the islands Vietnam holds in the SCS would ripe for the taking since they'd be undefended. I think China would do that in a blink of an eye.

 

[Viva_Viet]

I'm still not sure why Russia would come to aid Vietnam.

Even if they did, why would the commit their entire navy to do it? They have an insane distance to cover for their own coast. The US subs in the area would probably be enough to do the job.
.

You can find the answer from Mr. Viktor Ozerov

"We want to restore the old naval base in Vietnam.We are ready to develop Russia's presence in the sea and other ocean ... "- Commander of the Russian Navy, Admiral Viktor Chirkov said

Chirkov also said that in case of necessity the Russian Navy Command would suggest that the country's leadership to create naval forces operating on a permanent basis in the waters of the Pacific and Indian Oceans.


Photo: RIA Novosti


"In the history of the Navy ever experienced, when we have the fleet in the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean. Obviously, if necessary, we will propose to the Ministry of Defense, Government and the President to in which the presence of combat units on a permanent basis ", - Admiral V.Chirkov said in an interview of the TV channel" Zvezda ".

As previously announced, Mr. Viktor Ozerov, head of the Defense and Security Committee of the Federal Council had previously declared support the idea of ​​restoring forces of the Russian Navy permanent duty in strategic areas importance of the world's oceans.

"We support the strategic lines of the national leadership to restore the Russian Navy's presence in the world's oceans. We want to restore the old naval base in Vietnam. We are ready to develop the Russia's presence in the sea and other ocean ... "- he V.Ozerov raise comments on 14 March during a meeting with the military attaché in Russia.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ilitary-news-discussion-12.html#ixzz2OQBRippR

Soviet's nuke-sub in Cam ranh base before 1990.

Soviet Destroyer in Camranh base

Tu-142 in Cam Ranh

Tu-90 bomber with cruise missile, range of 1,200km also were in Cam Ranh.I will show its pic later.

Also, what makes you think playing nice with China would do anything? Lets assume China stays out of it. The US has enough there to do the job multiple times over. After that, all the islands Vietnam holds in the SCS would ripe for the taking since they'd be undefended. I think China would do that in a blink of an eye

China current leaders will gain Nothing but new Tienanmen revolt plus losing Taiwan forever from helping US against VN-Russia.

Help VN-Russia against US, corrupted China leaders can take back TW, and get lots of money from VN-Russia,too.

So, you know which side is better to chose for Mr.Xi now, right

 

[PITA]

But you'd use that bomber on the Americans? How would you be able to get close enough?

 

[xuxu1457]

It's not 20 years ago, cold war is over for 20 years, no one want directly have war with US on the earth, including Russia and China, no one want have directly war with Russia or China nere 1000KM away from Russia or China, including US.

I am puzzled that why VN always want war with big countries such as US, China; Do anyone realy think that US or China failed at VN? War is at the land of VN, big countries think that the war is not worth go on then over the war, nothing more affect for US and China but a disaster for VN, only dealed the scrapping of ammunition, did some combat exercises, a group of generals promoted and left some VN widow. Did VN attack US or China land at war? VN should have the world view. VN should learn from Israel，Singapore，Jordan