Japan´s arms build-up

[xunzi]

Keep nuclear weapon aside. No country will ever uses Nuclear weapon. Your country has no first use policy. What do you think ? Japan won't have Nuclear weapon? They are very advance country in science and technology. They must have acquired nuclear weapon by now. They have (Had) so many sophisticated Nuclear power plant in their country.

Your country had never been a country of warriors. All the races come to China beat you and Slaughter you (No Offence). You guys could hardly put any resistance.

How do you think the Japanese can beat a massive army with thriving economy, strong military industrial complex, manpower, and massive land base? It is almost making us invincible and the fact that we experience the 100 years of humiliation at the hand of foreign invaders add fuel to our fighting ability and morale. There is no question that we will continue to fight a war and our manufacturing base will turn into a military house to chunk out even more weapons in time of real war. This is not mentioning we are currently "investigating and experiencing" new technology to make our military even more deadly than currently construct.

You keep citing many foreign nomads invade and conquer us but where are they now? Where is the Xiongnu, Mongol, Hu, Jurchen and Manchurian now? You see my friend. Their land or their people either got absorb or defeat by us that their identity is not remember today. It is also not fun we conquer "other people", isn't t? You think my ancestor (Huaxia and Han) build this huge empire by being a loser in war? What a fucking joke!

 

[HariPrasad]

How do you think the Japanese can beat a massive army with thriving economy, strong military industrial complex, manpower, and massive land base? It is almost making us invisible and the fact that we experience the 100 years of humiliation at the hand of foreign invaders add fuel to our fighting ability and morale. There is no question that we will continue to fight a war and our manufacturing base will turn into a military house to chunk out even more weapons in time of real war. This is not mentioning we are currently "investigating and experiencing" new technology to make our military even more deadly than currently construct.

Your figure of 100 years is totally false. You seem to have forgotten one more zero or you wanted to say 100s. Your country every day claims some territory which is not yours. They will fight for their right and your army will fight to capture which is not yours. remember the second WW. How Japanese fought with mighty American and continued to fight untill nuked. Your army never show that spirit but did exactly opposite which I do not want to mention. Japan is much more developed than china. What your country can do, Japan can certainly do.

You keep citing many foreign nomads invade and conquer us but where are they now? Where is the Xiongnu, Mongol, Hu, Jurchen and Manchurian now? You see my friend. Their land or their people either got absorb or defeat by us that their identity is not remember today. It is also not fun we conquer "other people", isn't t? You think my ancestor (Huaxia and Han) build this huge empire by being a loser in war? What a fucking joke!

The question is not that where are they now? The question is that they managed to defeat you at particular point of time. They were so weak that they vanished later still they defeat you in the time of war. You might have build an empire by defeating other kingdom of your own country but you failed to mess with foreigners in the time of war.

 

[xunzi]

Your figure of 100 years is totally false. You seem to have forgotten one more zero or you wanted to say 100s. Your country every day claims on some territory which is not yours. They will fight for their right and your army will fight to capture which is not yours. remember the second WW. How Japanese fought with mighty American and continued to fight untill nuked. Your army never show that spirit but did exactly opposite which I do not want to mention. Japan is much more developed than china. What your country can do, Japan can certainly do.

In our 4000 of recorded history, only the Mongol Yuan and Manchurian Qing had successfully occupy my ancestor land. Of those two, Mongol last 97 years and Manchu 267 years so where is this 1,000 years of conquering my delusional Indian friend? Consider that you are an Indian, it is even more hilarious you talk about being "conquered". LMAO

What territory we said is our, we really meant it is our. I don't need to explain to a delusional Indian like you. Now if you talk about the sacrifice the Japanese did, you must remember how much we lost our soldiers fighting the Japanese but we never surrender. I advice you to read to gain better knowledge of our fighting ability in time when we have NOTHING. ZIP, nada, nothing! They surrender before getting nuke, you idiot. LMAO This is why I hate arguing with an Indian. You lack historical knowledge but act like you do. It's stink and stop making a mockery out of yourself. Take my advise and read some WWII history, especially event prior to the nuke. The Japanese were already desperate when the American ships approaching Japan. They were force to conduct what you call desperate mission such as having suicide pilot crashing their planes into the US ships. As far as our PLA military spirit, are you forgetting the Korean War and the behind-the-war game we had with the US during the Vietnam War? Please, go learn man!

The question is not that where are they now? The question is that they managed to defeat you at particular point of time. They were so weak that they vanished later still they defeat you in the time of war.

Of course, our civilization span from over 4,000-5,000 of continuous succession, we are bound to fall and lost some. But the final result is what matter. Today, we are still the ruler of the land our ancestor lived on while those who conquered us are gone. Do you understand, my friend? Or you expect our 4,000+ history to go undefeated because you put our civilization to a higher standard than others? I suspect this is your argument, in which I agree. We should be put to a higher standard because to us, we are seeking perfection.

 

[HariPrasad]

In our 4000 of recorded history, only the Mongol Yuan and Manchurian Qing had successfully occupy my ancestor land. Of those two, Mongol last 97 years and Manchu 267 years so where is this 1,000 years of conquering my delusional Indian friend? Consider that you are an Indian, it is even more hilarious you talk about being "conquered". LMAO

The important thing is that when ever they attacked you, they managed to defeat you and rulled you as per their wish. You guys unable to put resistance and decided to build a wall to content them. What was that time frame ? was it a 100 years of time interval?

What territory we said is our, we really meant it is our. I don't need to explain to a delusional Indian like you. Now if you talk about the sacrifice the Japanese did, you must remember how much we lost our soldiers fighting the Japanese but we never surrender. I advice you to read to gain better knowledge of our fighting ability in time when we have NOTHING. ZIP, nada, nothing! They surrender before getting nuke, you idiot. LMAO This is why I hate arguing with an Indian. You lack historical knowledge but act like you do. It's stink and stop making a mockery out of yourself. Take my advise and read some WWII history, especially event prior to the nuke. The Japanese were already desperate when the American ships approaching Japan. They were force to conduct what you call desperate mission such as having suicide pilot crashing their planes into the US ships. As far as our PLA military spirit, are you forgetting the Korean War and the behind-the-war game we had with the US during the Vietnam War? Please, go learn man!

If the terrotory you claimed was yours than why you were silent till date. Have you discover any new historical evidence in last month so that you say that territory was yours.

You never surrendered????!!!! Your army ran away before Japan attacked you. I may post you tube video and many references but it is not allowed in PDF.

They surrender before being Nuke???!!! It is batter if you increase your knowledge of History and do not make yourself a laughing stock on PDF. They carried out Kami Kaze attack and make is virtually impossible for US to invade Japan without using Nuke.

Yes you can play behind the game as you rightly said. Fighting with open chest is none of your strength.

Of course, our civilization span from over 4,000-5,000 of continuous succession, we are bound to fall and lost some. But the final result is what matter. Today, we are still the ruler of the land our ancestor lived on while those who conquered us are gone. Do you understand, my friend? Or you expect our 4,000+ history to go undefeated because you put our civilization to a higher standard than others? I suspect this is your argument, in which I agree. We should be put to a higher standard because to us, we are seeking perfection.

Today you are ruler of land and that is not your greatness. No country is slave today. It is because of the current prevailing international trend. The fact remains is that you guys have no spirit to fight. You are today rulled by worse than colonial power regime which deny you the basic right and freedom. You guys have no guts to raise the voice and oppose. Some brave students tried but crushed mercilessly. You guys got so afraid and stooped raising the voice. You guys remained scarred guys and nothing has changed since ages in your history.

 

[BoQ77]

When China still poor, the world has peace.
When China is getting bigger ( and need more oil and other resources ) .. then there' no peace at all.

 

[eazzy]

Ever heard of Pax Sinica ?

The world had peace when China was poor ? Are you serious ?

 

[UKBengali]

Either you are not as smart as you claim you are, or you are indeed a stupid nationalist.

My first point, China have 9.7 millions square meter of land, while the Japanese only have 300 thousand kilometre sq.

The size is 30 times as big. Say you need only 1/10 the same volume Of defence as in Japan to totally defend all of China, that means you need a force that's 3 times larger than Japan to total secure China. then you can talk about sparing force to actually invade Japan, that mean if Japan require 100 billions to afford a defence force to total secure their land, China would need 300 billions, and let me tell you, 1/3 of the size of Japanese force to defend China, which is 3000% as big is very generous, in reality you need about 5 to 7 times

No military in this world will send troop to someone else border unless they can secure their land while doing it, otherwise it will be a good advertisement to the world saying "Come Invade Us"

You have a larger land in China, then you need a larger force to defend China, then you will need a larger defence budget, how hard is it for you to understand?

Secondly, You have 1.4 billions of people in China, not EVERYONE is paying tax, your country will need to take care of those who's, too young, too old, too sick, too lazy to work, that was call social security, again as I say, unless your vision of China is build on a militaristic regime as in the one in NK, you need to feed those people, as you have 14 times more the population than Japan, is it natural that your government need to feed 14 times more of the needy in China?

Finally, GDP is what your economy earn, not exactly translated into how much your government can spend on military, you have other spending than military right? How hard is it to understand?

Are you really college educated? Even if you graduated from one of those chicken shit school attended by red neck, you should still understand what I was talking about?

Dude, your country is bigger than Japan, you WILL spend more in Everything than Japan, this cannot be anymore straight forward than that

Firstly, please try to write with grammatically correct sentences as you are hard to understand.

If we look at the year 2020, then it is likely that China would have a GDP of 20 trillion versus 7-8 trillion for Japan.

Say they both spent around 2% of their GDP on defence, China would spend 400 billion and Japan would spend 150 billion. Now we must take into account that things will be cheaper in China due to the fact that China will order larger numbers of equipment and prices would still be cheaper due to cheaper labour costs. So if we increase by 50% to take this into account, then China will spend 600 billion versus 150 billion for Japan.

So China has a defence budget that is in effect 4 times the size of Japan and the gap would be getting wider over time as the Chinese economy would still be growing much quicker.

China does not need to spend more than 2% of it's GDP to become a superpower over the next 10-15 years and be in a position to be realistically able to invade the Japanese mainland, while at the same time defending it's borders.

 

[jhungary]

Firstly, please try to write with grammatically correct sentences as you are hard to understand.

If we look at the year 2020, then it is likely that China would have a GDP of 20 trillion versus 7-8 trillion for Japan.

Say they both spent around 2% of their GDP on defence, China would spend 400 billion and Japan would spend 150 billion. Now we must take into account that things will be cheaper in China due to the fact that China will order larger numbers of equipment and prices would still be cheaper due to cheaper labour costs. So if we increase by 50% to take this into account, then China will spend 600 billion versus 150 billion for Japan.

So China has a defence budget that is in effect 4 times the size of Japan and the gap would be getting wider over time as the Chinese economy would still be growing much quicker.

China does not need to spend more than 2% of it's GDP to become a superpower over the next 10-15 years and be in a position to be realistically able to invade the Japanese mainland, while at the same time defending it's borders.

Lol my grammar...well I had already said I don't proof read or spell check, so sue me.

I feel comfy enough to just say it as it is, it wasn't't anything formal as if I am publishing an article here, I believe I had 5 article out by the way, why would I need to put in effort to format my sentence?

Beside, yours grammar ain't very good anyway, seems like you have no right to judge me to begin with

Still, my point is, China being 30 times the size with Japan, I would consider it to be a failure if China just out perform 4 times with their budget.

You need a larger force to defend your land if you have a larger piece of land, if China is 3000% in size, and even if we say Japan is 200% capable to defend their own, you are looking at a force about 10 to 15 times the size of JDF in order for China to put enough troop on their own land. And then you can start talking about sparing force for other activities.

If indeed as you say, china would put in 2% at defence budget, that is no where remotely enough to have a totally secure China, even if they will have a 20 trillions GDP that's merely 400 billions, Chinese defence equipment is cheap, but not as cheap as you think

And I almost felt down the floor laughing when you say China can invade Japanese mainland in 10-15 years time...lol really gold moment.

US today, with 10 Aircraft carrier and 200 advance surface ship and 2 millions troop and a 650 billions budget cannot even remotely invade Japan main islands, may be it's ok if we are looking at Okinawa action again? Then perhaps we can pull it off, but Nippon home island? Lol seriously?

Do you know each country can only afford to sea lift and air lift portion of their military for oversea operation, for US, that number is 17%. and US have the most landing ship/assault ship/troop ship and Air transport by far than any military in the world. Looking at China and their equipment, I would give them 9% and that's already a very generous figure...

The supply line between China and Japan to the closest point is 350km, and no land route. You are talking about invading a peer to near peer with no absolute air superiority and naval superiority with a bad lifting ability, unless in 15 or 20 years of time Chinese can learn how to teleport, otherwise there are virtually no chance for china to invade Japanese homeland

Let me give you a few historic figure.

In peleliu, US lost 10000 dead or wounded from a nest 30,000 invading force, while Japanese have barely 10,000 plus change in the island

In Okinawa, US have a peak strength of 280,000 troop and lost 50,000-60,000 killed and wounded against 120,000 Japanese troop

In Iwojima, US had 76,000 forces in it where the Japanese defending with 22000 in the end we lost 20,000 dead or wounded.

If we were to invade Tokyo, we would have expected 1 millions lost and wounded.

All that was historical figure and in WW2, unless China have about 10 million spate people to die or wounded for the clause, china have no chance invading Japanese homeland

 

[kankan326]

The important thing is that when ever they attacked you, they managed to defeat you and rulled you as per their wish. You guys unable to put resistance and decided to build a wall to content them. What was that time frame ? was it a 100 years of time interval?

You are a total idiot about history. Chinese defeated numerous minority armies. Most famous of them are Huns, Turks, Mongolians. All the three minorities later invaded Europe and caused big disasters there.

For Mongolians, you guys only know the glorious Mongol Empire. But it's only small part of Mongolian history. Before and after Mongol Empire, Mongolians were trample by Chinese. They were sold to Chinese as slaves. In Ming Dynasty, there was a policy called "减丁政策“, which means "periodically reduce Mongolian manpower(by slaughter)".

Even in the Mongol Empire, Chinese were the one who resisted Mongolian army for the longest time. Chinese even killed Mongol Emperor in battle field, which by the way indirectly saved the West.

For Manchus, they got their rule in China by luck. When Manchu was rising, China was suffering plague, famine and peasant uprisings everywhere. When China's capital was captured by the peasant army and the emperor hanged himself, Manchus were still staying outside of Great Wall. But after the famous general Wu Sangui(who was the Great Wall defender) surrendered to Manchus, everything changed. Another fact, Manchus had the world strongest cavalry at that time. Later they defeated mighty Galdan and Russia.

 

[BoQ77]

Agree.

Disadvantage of logistics cause a big army failed against a smaller army.
Study the case sino-viet 1979 conflict, one of reasons for failure of the big army of China is they called for a very big quantity while unable to supply enough to that quantity.

Now, they must be improved much, but the logistics issue should always be studied thoroughly.

If China could, I think Taiwan is the more reasonable rival. Try to occupy Taiwan first, China could taste some blood at their point of tongue.

after that, they could think again on challenges to Japan

 

[UKBengali]

If indeed as you say, china would put in 2% at defence budget, that is no where remotely enough to have a totally secure China, even if they will have a 20 trillions GDP that's merely 400 billions, Chinese defence equipment is cheap, but not as cheap as you think

And I almost felt down the floor laughing when you say China can invade Japanese mainland in 10-15 years time...lol really gold moment.

US today, with 10 Aircraft carrier and 200 advance surface ship and 2 millions troop and a 650 billions budget cannot even remotely invade Japan main islands, may be it's ok if we are looking at Okinawa action again? Then perhaps we can pull it off, but Nippon home island? Lol seriously?

Point A - 400 billion budget cannot secure China?

LOL - Only real threat to China would come from Russia and the Chinese army in the far-east is more powerful than the Russian one even now.

In 10-15 years the gap would only get bigger as the Chinese economy is growing twice as quick as the Russian one.

Point B - US can easily invade the Japanese mainland. US spends nearly 15 times more than Japan does so I do not understand your argument.

Forget about many Japanese aircraft even being able to take off to try to defend against US carrier borne aircraft as their bases would have been targeted by thousands of cruise missiles before the carriers even getting anywhere near the Japanese Islands. B-2s would also be sweeping in to destroy command and control centres to eliminate centralised control of Japanese forces.

And who says that you need to militarily invade Japan? You can just blockade them to submission.

The only two countries that the US cannot invade now are Russia and China.

LOL.

 

[BoQ77]

Almost Vietnamese believe that if China challenge, only 1 week enough for US to outnumber China

 

[jhungary]

Point A - 400 billion budget cannot secure China?

LOL - Only real threat to China would come from Russia and the Chinese army in the far-east is more powerful than the Russian one even now.

In 10-15 years the gap would only get bigger as the Chinese economy is growing twice as quick as the Russian one.

Point B - US can easily invade the Japanese mainland. US spends nearly 15 times more than Japan does so I do not understand your argument.

Forget about many Japanese aircraft even being able to take off to try to defend against US carrier borne aircraft as their bases would have been targeted by thousands of cruise missiles before the carriers even getting anywhere near the Japanese Islands. B-2s would also be sweeping in to destroy command and control centres to eliminate centralised control of Japanese forces.

And who says that you need to militarily invade Japan? You can just blockade them to submission.

The only two countries that the US cannot invade now are Russia and China.

LOL.

Point A: What is a "Secured" China?? You spend 400 billions and recruit whatever troop possible and you can call that a defence force?

You need to look at both land size and Military/Civilian Population. While US is currently spending 650 billions dollars. What you are assuming is you just pump 400 billions out and you will get a large force.

The problem is, the increase in budget does not proportional to the icnrease of military force. Say let me put a very simple example out to you, for every 4 more troop you recruited, you will need to get an extra Jeep or Humvee. and For every extra Humvee you get, you will need to hire an extra mechanic, and all that money (Humvee/Jeep, extra Mechanic) incurred simply because you recruit 4 more troop.

Everything cost money in the Military. It's not like ok, you pump certain amount of money and you can expect a well defined defence structure in return....

Point B: of course we can invade the Japanese home island, but we will not succeed, and even if we do, we will have to pay a high price. In case you don't know, Japan is an ISLAND, you do not have land connection with anything country in Japan. Do you know what that means??

That means if we were to invade Japan, we can only pack our troop in Amp Assault Ship/Troop Ship and Transport plane and brought them on Japanese Shore. Now i don't know if there are any country in this world can pack 2 millions soldier in transport of all sort to assault another country. Problem is, it's the most dangerous time when your troop in transport. Think about sinking 1 troop ship, you will lose 700-1000 troop. 1 Transport plane you will lose 100 troop. Set aisde can any country can literally pack any meaningful amount of troop to assault other country. For the defence, they don't need to contest anything, they just need to intercept and sink those troop ship and it will bring a bulk of your force under the sea. And have the other bulk who is expecting to board that ship in second wave sit with their thumb up their *** and do nothing.

Ok, let's for argument sake, say you can literally bring the troop in without any lose or incident. US Military alone can at most brought 250,000-300,000 troops from all the Sealift/AirLift Resource. (That's between 160-180 Sealift ship, 10 Assault Ship, 10 Aircraft Carrier and about 400 Transport plane)

List of Military Sealift Command ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Air Mobility Command - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is the maximum we can send at any given wave. Then we need to wait for those transport asset to return, regroup, refuel and reload assault troop and make another journey and form a second wave, third wave. Say, a round trip with everything done will cost you 3 hours (Usually in days) to turn around, then your first wave (250,000 - 300,000) soldier will face the full wrath of the enemy 600,000 strong regular force. Until another wave can land, this is all you got. This is also the reason why we perfer to nuke the Japanese rather than fight the whole country..

Yes, China have 4.6 Mil strength with their PLA now, but how many can they send every trip that's count, not how many they have in China. last time i check, Chinese sealift ability is less than 50 ship 3 of those are 20,000 ton class, 27 of those are between 4000-5000 tons) strength and less than 100 large cargo planes....)

List of active People's Liberation Army Navy ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of active Chinese military aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That mean maybe about 50,000-100,000 troop they can send at any given wave. Again, unless every Chinese soldier can teleport, otherwise what you can expect is Chinese send their military force piecemeal and that would be no match of Japanese Home Defence. OR how you suppose the Chinese to put Troop in Japanese soil and fight??

Point C: lol you can try blockade an Island, that sized at about 300,000 sq Km. Good luck on that.
Just remember, in order for the force to enforce a total blockade, they will need to blockade EVERY ACCESS route to and from their blockade country. But for anyone who was under the blockade. They only need to punch thru one hole and they will be able to resupply. Now, you are telling me while Chinese Navy in 10-15 years time, they can enact a full blockade and cover every inch of Japanese Coast? And that Japanese Navy is weak enough and cannot punch thru a tiny hole to allow resupply to flow in?? I am not sure even US Navy today with 10 Aircraft Carrier, 7 LHD, 200 surface warship can enact an effective blockade to Japan. Lol seems like you are dreaming..

Dude, what you said is not Military Feasible, and what you are thinking is only scratching the surface, in the future, listen to people who know stuffs, instead of arguing with them.

 

[HariPrasad]

You are a total idiot about history. Chinese defeated numerous minority armies. Most famous of them are Huns, Turks, Mongolians. All the three minorities later invaded Europe and caused big disasters there.

For Mongolians, you guys only know the glorious Mongol Empire. But it's only small part of Mongolian history. Before and after Mongol Empire, Mongolians were trample by Chinese. They were sold to Chinese as slaves. In Ming Dynasty, there was a policy called "减丁政策“, which means "periodically reduce Mongolian manpower(by slaughter)".

Even in the Mongol Empire, Chinese were the one who resisted Mongolian army for the longest time. Chinese even killed Mongol Emperor in battle field, which by the way indirectly saved the West.

For Manchus, they got their rule in China by luck. When Manchu was rising, China was suffering plague, famine and peasant uprisings everywhere. When China's capital was captured by the peasant army and the emperor hanged himself, Manchus were still staying outside of Great Wall. But after the famous general Wu Sangui(who was the Great Wall defender) surrendered to Manchus, everything changed. Another fact, Manchus had the world strongest cavalry at that time. Later they defeated mighty Galdan and Russia.

Your History Knowledge is BS. Chine is and was a country always feared from others. They build the great wall to prevent themselves from being attacked by outsiders. You yourself accept that in your post indirectly.

 

[BoQ77]

There's no an unique China, ... there's sequence arrangements of many wars into the last output ... call China. Wait... there're 2 last outputs, PDR China and Republic of China ( Taiwan )

China mainland government fears of the world recognize Taiwan as an independent nation, they would be very angry if it come true