Japan, and war with the developed world

[xunzi]

They did not take action on us not because they care about us but because they are scare. War is always a possibility when conflict of interest and dispute exist. All it takes is one minor incident, whether intentional or by accident, it will escalate into full-blown war, especially in the case of China and Japan. We got bad blood with them for a reason.

 

[70U63]

@Peter C ,

Honestly, do you think war with China is unavoidable ? Avoidable?

Both countries are not stupid, if they really want war, they will make sure the war happen in third country (not in their own country). Just like what happened previously in Vietnam previously (if you look at the incident at different perspective).

And of course, the military-industrial complex will be happy. Selling more weapon = more business = stock market increase = more money = more freedom = more donations to the election = leaders happy = people happy = quality of the democratic system guaranteed. Who care are about others who are dumb enough to let themselves into the war

Human race are dumb; after revolution for thousands of years, they are still arguing who own the world

 

[Aepsilons]

Both countries are not stupid, if they really want war, they will make sure the war happen in third country (not in their own country). Just like what happened previously in Vietnam previously (if you look at the incident at different perspective).

And of course, the military-industrial complex will be happy. Selling more weapon = more business = stock market increase = more money = more freedom = more donations to the election = leaders happy = people happy = quality of the democratic system guaranteed. Who care are about others who are dumb enough to let themselves into the war

Human race are dumb; after revolution for thousands of years, they are still arguing who own the world

No nation wishes for war, but , unfortunately we do not live in an ideal world, and the real world is evil, filled with cruelties that awaits one who is not careful , where the next person will take advantage of you when you are weak. This is organic concept applies also for nations. And thus nations must prepare for worse case scenarios. Afterall, no one wants to be "caught with their pants down".

Human race are dumb; after revolution for thousands of years, they are still arguing who own the world

I wouldn't say the human race is dumb, its more so that the civilizations base policies on interests. And as i said prior, interests are driven by more Basilar instincts.

Remember, in the end, Socrates (despite his wisdom) was forced to drink poison.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

@Peter C ,

Honestly, do you think war with China is unavoidable ? Avoidable?

I think you guys are doomed. The question is how much damage will they inflict on the U.S. before they flatten you.
After they take care of their neighborhood headaches they will close their doors for another 100 years.

 

[Cossack25A1]

No nation wishes for war, but , unfortunately we do not live in an ideal world, and the real world is evil, filled with cruelties that awaits one who is not careful , where the next person will take advantage of you when you are weak. This is organic concept applies also for nations. And thus nations must prepare for worse case scenarios. Afterall, no one wants to be "caught with their pants down".



I wouldn't say the human race is dumb, its more so that the civilizations base policies on interests. And as i said prior, interests are driven by more Basilar instincts.

Remember, in the end, Socrates (despite his wisdom) was forced to drink poison.

I wouldn't say the world is evil, but rather, the world is "gray" in the sense that all nations are driven by self-interests, sadly this oversteps over the sovereignty of others.

Besides, if the world is very perfect, how long human race can continue to exist, as being perfect means no more room for evolution and adaptations.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

This is true in a sense. However, it applies only to weaker developing nations. Some developing nations are too large to be ignored. Take Russia - it doesn't matter what the media says about Russia, Russia does what it wants. It invades Georgia in 2008, and who remembers Georgia? It "invaded" Ukraine - just watch as the storm blows over in a year. Sure, Russia loses in the field of international image - but the Russians don't give a fk about their image. Never have and never will. They only care about their power. That's the alpha mentality.

Same with China - if push comes to shove, there's going to be no problems with image because the world will have way bigger things to worry about.

 

[Huan]

I wouldn't say the world is evil, but rather, the world is "gray" in the sense that all nations are driven by self-interests, sadly this oversteps over the sovereignty of others.

Besides, if the world is very perfect, how long human race can continue to exist, as being perfect means no more room for evolution and adaptations.

Sometimes, I think it's better for all countries around the world to consolidate into fewer and fewer very large countries, while every ethnic group and various factions gets a voice in a newly formed government. That way, nobody will be lusting at each other's overlapping sovereign territories.

By the way, is your avatar the girl named Miku Izayoi from Date A Live II anime?

 

[UKBengali]

I think the OP is over-hyping the power of the US/EU to stay on top for too much longer.

By 2030, China essential will be the most powerful country in the world when you take into account all factors like economics and military.

The US network of alliances, already being dismantled by EU's joining of the AIIB against US wishes, will only hasten to weaken as China's power grows.

 

[mike2000 is back]

This is true in a sense. However, it applies only to weaker devit'ing nations. Some developing nations are too large to be ignored. Take Russia - it doesn't matter what the media says about Russia, Russia does what it wants. It invades Georgia in 2008, and who remembers Georgia? It "invaded" Ukraine - just watch as the storm blows over in a year. Sure, Russia loses in the field of international image - but the Russians don't give a fk about their image. Never have and never will. They only care about their power. That's the alpha mentality.

Same with China - if push comes to shove, there's going to be no problems with image because the world will have way bigger things to worry about.

I completely agree with you about Russia, but i don't agree about the China part. China unlike Russia do cares about it's image (saving face ),reason China hasn't been willing /able to take back Taiwan now for over half century while Russia has invaded /took back lands from several of its neighbouring countries without giving a shit about what our leaders /media think and being ready to face sanctions.... Bloody Russians I despise and admire their guts /balls at the same time to be honest .

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Be honest, can war still be instigated against any developed nation? The answer is no. There are obvious reasons, but I will be focusing on the economic, political, military, as well as the brutally honest side of things.

The developed world are called that for a reason, and the main point is they control the world of economics, being allies with each other and having multiple treaties with each other means no nation as of yet can challenge them. China may look big, but relative to G6, we are but a fraction of what they are combined, or what the Us or EU is alone.

Taking the war to them would mean economic sanctions, and even if it doesn't come to that, trade would be greatly disrupted, and no developing nation can separate from the developed world and land softly.

Politically, the G6 nations still control all of the international institutions and a declaration on one, is essentially a declaration on all. The other important point is the developed nations all share a common ideology and has the resources available to promote human rights rather than just preach it. This makes any nation declaring on them, strong or weak, seem evil, this will be expanded on later.

Militarily, the US is easily the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen, and Japan + EU are powers in their own right. While Japan may still have a peaceful constitution, that constitution clearly has not reached their navy, as they boast, easily, a top 5 navy in the world, what they lack in air force and ground force are easily made up by the American presence in Korea and Japan.

The G6's combined military spending hovers around a trillion dollars a year and can dwarf any nation that even thinks of matching them.

Lastly we get to the part where no one wants to talk about, the developed world has people that are just worth more. They have a voice. Their media dominates the global narrative and their reputation makes sure their words are taken at face value by most uninterested viewers, and hard to argue, by the hardcore followers.

The hurricane Katrina, Japanese nuclear disaster, French shooting, and more are terrible events, but hardly the worst that have happened that year, or even that week in the world. Yet, nobody knows or cares about the bloody battles that goes on in the rest of the world, be it civil wars, terrorism, or war on drugs.

So the question remains, can any nation hope to declare on a developed nation today? The Americans went into Iraq with lies, but the idea of freedom, and democracy as well as prosperity appeal to the masses, and thus, condemned, America more or less still faces little backlash over its action, while on the other side of the pond, China faces severe backlash, and even given the Nazi tag, over disputed territories and no military actions of any kind.

Bottom line, China and Japan will not go to war, it doesn't matter if Japan has 0 or 20 carrier groups.

The funny thing is, just yesterday, there was an article in Germany stating that the G7 group is becoming like snow in the spring sun.

Wie Schnee in der Frühlingssonne | Telepolis

 

[Cossack25A1]

Sometimes, I think it's better for all countries around the world to consolidate into fewer and fewer very large countries, while every ethnic group and various factions gets a voice in a newly formed government. That way, nobody will be lusting at each other's overlapping sovereign territories.

By the way, is your avatar the girl named Miku Izayoi from Date A Live II anime?

Well, it is likely that this will be the trend in the near future regarding nation-states.

And yes

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

I completely agree with you about Russia, but i don't agree about the China part. China unlike Russia do cares about it's image (saving face ),reason China hasn't been willing /able to take back Taiwan now for over half century while Russia has invaded /took back lands from several of its neighbouring countries without giving a shit about what our leaders /media think and being ready to face sanctions.... Bloody Russians I despise and admire their guts /balls at the same time to be honest .

See this is why Indians say Chinese are two-faced when in reality Chinese do what they say and say what they mean. In 1950, China issued US a warning to not cross the 37th parallel or China will intervene. The US didn't listen and dismissed it as a bluff. Then they were surprised at "Chinese treachery". In 1962 Indians thought Chinese were bluffing when we told them to get out of Tibet and Askai Chin. They tried calling the bluff - turns out it wasn't a bluff. All of these could've been avoided if they only realized that Chinese say exactly what they mean.

 

[terranMarine]

I completely agree with you about Russia, but i don't agree about the China part. China unlike Russia do cares about it's image (saving face ),reason China hasn't been willing /able to take back Taiwan now for over half century while Russia has invaded /took back lands from several of its neighbouring countries without giving a shit about what our leaders /media think and being ready to face sanctions.... Bloody Russians I despise and admire their guts /balls at the same time to be honest .

Says someone whose arse got kicked by her own son. Didn't the Americans kicked you guys all the way back to England? If China had no guts it wouldn't have entered the Korean and Vietnam War. Guess what the US couldn't win because of Chinese involvement.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

In 1950, China issued US a warning to not cross the 37th parallel or China will intervene. .

The U.S. or the UN?

 

[TaiShang]

I completely agree with you about Russia, but i don't agree about the China part. China unlike Russia do cares about it's image (saving face ),reason China hasn't been willing /able to take back Taiwan now for over half century while Russia has invaded /took back lands from several of its neighbouring countries without giving a shit about what our leaders /media think and being ready to face sanctions.... Bloody Russians I despise and admire their guts /balls at the same time to be honest .

No, Russians have lost large chunks of their land, as well, and have not taken all of them back. Crimea would not have been taken if NATO really had not charged into the doorsteps of Russia, literally aiming at crippling it. Only then, and with the civil war full blown in Ukraine, Russia took step and annexed Crimea.

The West almost forced Russians to take some action. Look how Russia leaves its only real ally in Middle East, Syria, at the wolves' table despite that it could have done much much more and without any real consequences other than maybe further sanctions and loss of (western) prestige.

Russia was in fact very eager to reset the relations with the US during Medvedev. US has single-handedly pushed the Russians away, not vice versa.

China, on the other, has taken back most of its historical lands, Taiwan being the last one that still has a sort of de facto separation from China, although it is politically crippled entirely. If half of the threats that Russia faced in Ukraine were applicable in China's case, you will see if China really cares about face or anything. It is strategic calculation, as your leaders know very well, and has nothing to do with face or prestige.

Prestige at the barrel of guns is what China believes. It is not by chance that China is the second largest military spender and runs world's most ambitious indigenous military development program.

Taiwan will be taken fully when the right time comes. It is definitely not "face" that stops China, but geopolitical realities. When the status quo is in your favor, you do not disturb it although you keep ready for contingencies.