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Jan 25 - Language Martyrs Day (Anti-Hindi Agitation Tamilnadu)

Aryan - Dravidian divide can be traced to the Vedas, DNA studies are not 100 % foolproof , even a monkey can share a similar DNA with you.


Don't lie.

There is no Aryan-Dravidian divide in Vedas. The strife that Vedas point to is internal civil strife of Aryans ( between Indo-Aryans and Persians).

And Genetic studies have shown that is not very large Genetic difference between North and South Indians of today.

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There is some difference on account of Proximity of North and Western India to South West Asia, but very high similarity of North Indian and South Indian DNA belies different race theory.
 
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Asurs of Vedas are not Dravidians, but Persians. Asurs
Don't lie.

There is no Aryan-Dravidian divide in Vedas. The strife that Vedas point to is internal civil strife of Aryans ( between Indo-Aryans and Persians).
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Asuras in the Vedas refers to the Elamites in Persia, the original Tamils. The Achaemenid Dynasty drove the Elamites out of Persia , replacing the Elamite-Dravidian language with Sanskritic-Old Persian/Avestan. Persians and Indo-Aryans were not warring tribes, thus there was no room for any internal civil strifle. Persians incorporated Elamite elements into their religion - Zoroastrianism. The Elamite element in Zoroastrianism is the Asura revolt against the Devas.

Eastward exodus of Elamites in their bullcarts and not horsecarts - a Susa palace motif
elmite exodus.jpg
 
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Asuras referred to the Elamites in Persia, the original Tamils. The Achaemenid Dynasty drove the Elamites out of Persia While the Persians replaced Elamite-Dravidian language with Sanskritic-Old Persian. The Persians and Aryans were not warring tribes, Persians incorporated Elamite elements into their religion - Zoroastrianism. The Elamite element in Zoroastrianism is the Asura revolt against the Devas. T

Eastward exodus of Elamites in their bullcarts -View attachment 187325


Seriously, This is the most shameless example historical revisionism which makes neither Historical, nor Geographic sense. Though this kind of revisionism is not uncommon among Periyar freaks. They claim everything from Finnish to Elam as Dravidian. This is probably due to igrained inferiority complex of Periyarites (due to them being of Low caste).


This putrid post that @manlion has barfed on this thread is so juvenile and stupid that i do not have to even work hard to discredit it.

1. The biggest loophole is in Timeline. Elamite-Assyrian war started after 800BCE , and Elam was destroyed in 539BCE. Even during 800BCE, Indo-Aryans has settled in whole of North, West, East and Central India; and by 539BCE they had reached even southernmost tip of Indian Peninsula.

And how come Elamites become Asura of Vedas when Rig-Veda was written in 1500BCE when they were in Elam until 500BCE. Indo-Aryans never had any contact with Elamites, Persians made contact with them.

2. Second biggest loophole in this @manlion 's theory is Geography. Elam was not in Eastern Iran ,but in South-West corner of Iran. Location of Elam is around Shatt-al-arab waterway at Iran-Iraq-Kuwait Border. If Elamites move east, they are still in Persia for thousand of miles, and when they reach India they would be greeted by Baluchistan and Thar desert. If they take Bolan Pass route,which is most favourite route to enter India, they have to move North-East. By taking this alignment, they have to not ony cross two deserts ( Dast-e-lut and Dast-e-Kavir) to reach Afghanistan, but have to go through heart of Achaemenid Empire (which has just defeated them and is their Enemy.

There is no alternate reality in which they would have made to India, alive.

3. Elam being Dravidian is a typical Periyar lie. Majority of Linguists consider Elam Language as an independent language group. It's relation toSemitic languages, Sumerian language,Akkadian language,munda language and Dravidiand language are fringe theories (like OIT) which have been throughly debunked.

4.There is similarity between Avestan and Vedic texts, both of which were writeen before even 800BCE. And both of thes texts have similarity with proto Indo-European religion; something which has been explained by me in #74.

How come Varuna ( an Asura/lesser god ) of Rig vedic text become primary god of Irano-Aryan texts, if Asuras were not Iranians/Persians? How come old Persian call have Ahura which is cognate with Asura of Old-Sanskrit? These events occured close to 1500-1200BCE when Elamites were 1000's of miles away from place of the synthesis of these ideas?


Seriously people should at least stick to common sense, even when they are intellectually dishonest, in order to prevent ridicule.
 
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And Genetic studies have shown that is not very large Genetic difference between North and South Indians of today.

There is some difference on account of Proximity of North and Western India to South West Asia, but very high similarity of North Indian and South Indian DNA belies different race theory.

The study by HPASC (Human Genetic Diversity in Asia) supports an Indo-European migration into India. The study findings divides Indian cline into two groups ANI and ANS. The ANI are related to western Eurasians and speak Indo-Euopean languages. ASI on the other hand speak a Dravidian language.

Mapping Human Genetic Diversity in Asia
 
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The study by HPASC (Human Genetic Diversity in Asia) supports an Indo-European migration into India. The study findings divides Indian cline into two groups ANI and ANS. The ANI are related to western Eurasians and speak Indo-Euopean languages. ASI on the other hand speak a Dravidian language


And i have posted a meta-chart for genetic distribution of India. There has never been any argument over the fact that every group in India (barring mongoloids of North-East) immigrated from West (this includes dravidians) vis Bolan and Khyber pass.

First to migrate were Negro Tribes like Santhal which still retain curly hair and dark black skin colour of Negroites. Next were Australites , of which Tribes like Munda could be considered as a representative. Dravidians (which is not a racial category, but a mix of Australites, mediterranians and Western Brachycephals) migrated after that, and last major group was of Indo-Aryans (which again was not a racial group but a mix of Nordics, Mediterranians, and Westent Brachychephals). All this migrations were during Pre-Iron Age. During Iron-Age, whole of the world, had undergone massive population explosion which ensured that arrival after them would not much affect on Genetic pool.

What has always been stated is that Indians have a racially mixed heritage, which is proven by Genetic studies.



And the racial suppression theory of Periyar freaks too would not stick, as even during Satvahana time period (100 CE), Kingdoms had policy of Clear and Cultivate, in which people who clear a forest area get right to cultivate it. This was due to the fact that therre was too much fallow land and too little people to cultivate them even in CE.
 
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1. The biggest loophole is in Timeline. Elamite-Assyrian war started after 800BCE , and Elam was destroyed in 539BCE. Even during 800BCE, Indo-Aryans has settled in whole of North, West, East and Central India; and by 539BCE they had reached even southernmost tip of Indian Peninsula.

You claim that the Asura vs Deva was a civil strifle between the Indo Aryans and Persians, where is the historic evidence

Thus, its only logical that the Asuras (and Dasyus) in the Vedas refers to the Elamites (and Dravidians) of the IVC . your timeline has no relevance in this discussion , as Elamites were in Iran from 2700 BC till 600 BC. Indo-Aryans arrival in IVC in 1500 BC (Rig Veda) and Indo Euporeans - Medes /Persian arrived in Iran after 1200 BC.

If Elamites move east, they are still in Persia for thousand of miles, and when they reach India they would be greeted by Baluchistan and Thar desert. If they take Bolan Pass route,which is most favourite route to enter India, they have to move North-East. By taking this alignment, they have to not ony cross two deserts ( Dast-e-lut and Dast-e-Kavir) to reach Afghanistan, but have to go through heart of Achaemenid Empire (which has just defeated them and is their Enemy.

I said they moved east , why you stretching your imagination to India, when most likely the Elamites populated the regions (-i.e Baluchistan) you have mentioned

3. Elam being Dravidian is a typical Periyar lie. Majority of Linguists consider Elam Language as an independent language group. It's relation to Semitic languages, Sumerian language,Akkadian language,munda language and Dravidiand language are fringe theories (like OIT) which have been

I have never heard of any IVC expert called Periyar, my stand is based on Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis

Elamo-Dravidian languages - Slider

4.There is similarity between Avestan and Vedic texts, both of which were writeen before even 800BCE. And both of thes texts have similarity with proto Indo-European religion; something which has been explained by me in #74.

Vedas was a based on a oral tradition , early Brahmi script was written in 5th BC. Avestan in 4th AD, so it cant be 800 BC

How come Varuna ( an Asura/lesser god ) of Rig vedic text become primary god of Irano-Aryan texts, if Asuras were not Iranians/Persians? How come old Persian call have Ahura which is cognate with Asura of Old-Sanskrit? These events occured close to 1500-1200BCE when Elamites were 1000's of miles away from place of the synthesis of these ideas?

Ahura Mazda is also equated with the gods Mithra, Yahweh and Bel

the Vedic god of natural and moral law,probably a sky god originally:thought to correspond to the Zoroastrian god AhuraMazda.
Varuna | Define Varuna at Dictionary.com

Rig Veda - HYMN XLI. Soma Pavamana

1. ACTIVE and bright have they come forth, impetuous in speed like bulls,
Driving the black skin far away.
2 Quelling the riteless Dasyu, may we think upon the bridge of bliss,
Leaving the bridge of woe behind.
 
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You claim that the Asura vs Deva was a civil strifle between the Indo Aryans and Persians, where is the historic evidence Persian fought against the Indo-Aryans, ? When the Persians fought against the Elamites, Babylonians and Assyrian Empires.

Thus, its only logical that the Asuras in the Vedas refers to the Dravidians (Elamites) of the IVC . your timeline has no relevance in this discussion as Elamites were in Iran from 2700 BC till 600 BC. Indo-Aryans arrival in IVC was in 1500 BC Rig Veda and Indo Euporeans - Medes /Persian arrived in Iran after 1200 BC.

This is most stupid piece of crap that i have read.

Indo-Aryan and Persian strife is of Pre-historic era, when history was not written chronologically and has to be deciphered from epics. Existence of Asura and Deva in Aryan literature proves strife, not other way around. There was no recording of history in 1800-1200 BCE, but history was recorded in 500BCE thus Persian-Elamite war are known in much more detail.


And your convulted sense of logic does not have a leg to stand upon. Indo-Aryans are not Persians. These are two different group who originated from a same ethnic group. The fact that Elamites were fighting Persians ,that too in 600 BCE not 1600, has no relation to vedic texts written in 1600 BCE. The fact that Rig veda was written during/just after seperation of two Aryan groups and at least 400 years before western branch of that group (persians) came into contact with Elamites, and contains complete description of Deva-Asura conflict removes the base from beneath your arguments.

Unless of course you believe , like most of Periyar freaks, that Elamites (super fake Dravidians) had teleportation machine and could reach India without running into Persians who by this time have completely seperated from Indo-Aryans and thus did not had any affect on Late Rig Veda literature, your theory is absurd.

Another glaring loophole in yout putrid convulted logic is that both Vedic and Avestan texts mention Deva-Asura conflict. This could only happen if this conflics occured before seperation of Persians and Indo-Aryans, ie before 2000BCE

I said they moved east , why you stretching your imagination to India, when most likely the Elamites populated the regions (-i.e Baluchistan) you have mentioned

Again this stupidity.

As if Elamites moving across whole of Persia into Baluchistan, is not a superhuman feat, you are also having a nightfall by thinking them as Asuras, While completely forgetting that Vedas were composed in Punjab-Haryana region of India, at least 500 Km away from abode that you are postulating(Baluchistan) for your mythical Dravidians (Elamites) .



I have never heard of any IVC expert called Periyar, my stand is based on Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis


Your stand is based on propaganda kool Aid that you and you friends drink in Periyar circle Jerk to overcome your inferiority complex (based on your being from low caste).

Elam language is a "Language isolate". It does not have enough similarity with any language group to be considered part of that. I could not post links (thank your gods for that), yet so i would post quotes about Elam.

Elamite is regarded by the vast majority of linguists as a language isolate, as it has no demonstrable relationship to the neighbouring Semitic languages,Indo-European languages, or to Sumerian, despite having adopted the Sumerian-Akkadian cuneiform script. David McAlpin proposed an Elamo-Dravidian family connecting Elamite with the Dravidian languages of India.Václav Blažek proposed a relation with the Afroasiatic languages of the Near East,and George Starostin published a lexicostatistic analysis finding Elamite to be approximately equidistant from Nostratic and Semitic,but these ideas have not been picked up by mainstream historical linguists.


Periyar freaks even call Finnish, a Dravidian language; something which is utterly laughable.

Vedas was a based on a oral tradition , early Brahmi script was written in 5th BC. Avestan in 4th AD, so it cant be 800 BC

Now this is another stupidity. 5th century BCE is latest date by which Brahmi was being used as evident from inscriptions. It does not mean that it was not used before that .It may have been written but may not have survived due to usage of perishable medium to write it.

What is certain is that Rig-Veda was composed in 1500-200 BCE period as proved from linguistic studies ( It is a scienticif field of study of Languages, not some Kool Aid drinking Propaganda club). Your arguments does noy have a leg to stand on.

Ahura Mazda is also equated with the gods Mithra, Yahweh and Bel

So what!

Varuna is most vindictive of all Gods in Vedic literature and does share characterstics with vindictive Semetic gods.

Here from your Own link


Varuna:


noun, Hinduism.
1.
the Vedic god of natural and moral law, probably a sky god originally: thought to correspond to the Zoroastrian god Ahura Mazda.
 
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Don't lie.

There is no Aryan-Dravidian divide in Vedas. The strife that Vedas point to is internal civil strife of Aryans ( between Indo-Aryans and Persians).

And Genetic studies have shown that is not very large Genetic difference between North and South Indians of today.

View attachment 187321


There is some difference on account of Proximity of North and Western India to South West Asia, but very high similarity of North Indian and South Indian DNA belies different race theory.
Now manlion will cut off a part of his body...about 50% to be precise. :(
 
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The resident clown in PDF


He chose a wrong opponent to peddle his propaganda. I have fair knowledge of Indian history and enough common sense to demolish his "Elamites were Asurs" and "Elamite are dravidian" diatribe.

Read the comments of last few posts. He is arguing on such a specious and Absurd logic that he would need a time machine and teleportation machine to justify them.
 
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He chose a wrong opponent to peddle his propaganda. I have fair knowledge of Indian history and enough common sense to demolish his "Elamites were Asurs" and "Elamite are dravidian" diatribe.

Read the comments of last few posts. He is arguing on such a specious and Absurd logic that he would need a time machine and teleportation machine to justify them.

Google search can make certain people think they're experts.. And drag along few morons for a while.. Until they meet a match with real knowledge
 
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On topic, I do find Tamilians to be too stuck on their anti Hindi hostility.

I mean, I am also not a Hindi speaker. Most states of India have their own language. But as a country we need to talk to one another right? Or is it going to be a Tower of Babel with everyone speaking their own tongue?

Ergo, India and Indians needs a link language. Don't call it national language if it irritates you so much. But you do need a link language. And it is absurd to expect English, a foreign tongue, spoken by barely a hundred million elite Indians, to be that language.

On the other hand Tamil is spoken by what? About 40 million? In list of regional language by native speakers, if I am not mistaken, Tamil comes in 6th or 7th.

Hindi on the other hand is the mother tongue of about 500 million. And can be understood and conversed in by most everyone else, to some degree.

Where is the argument? Yes how it was done in the past was crude. But forget the past. Look at the present and the future. Do you want to talk to each other as countrymen or do you want to talk past each other?
 
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but being northie i guess you are proud of foreign invaders raping your ancestors and destroying your cultural symbols etc.i guess you enjoy being the home of india's crime against woman/religous riot/caste riot/illiteracy/underdeveloment/unemployment/crazy fertility rates capital and still have audacity to impose your bimaru hindi on civilized parts of the country

I have spent significant time in TN .... I could not sense the height of anti Hindi mood among Tamil fellow instead they had kept asking me make them learn Hindi ..... My fb friend list has overwhelming no of Tamils, Telgus n Kannadas....
Tamil Teri yaade Hindi Teri ma .....

We are nation of vast diverse culture , dialect custom religions so what makes us perfect indian is firstly recognizing n respecting other's cultures customs langs beliefs before taking a blind pride of our own individual culture customs langs n etc within Indian landmass n to this merit you seriously lack the indianness ...... You seem to be writing all the post looking down at others or non tamilian .....
 
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dum dum, we were not persian slaves like you to call ourself with -stan :D :D
sthana = place in Sanskrit, not stan in persian. dum dum.

All those years Norths Arya Rishi babas were writing books against South Dravidians to defeat them. Made Northies as angel Suras and Southies Dravidians as Demon Asuras. And unable to defeat ever but those British made miracle for the Aryas at last. @Sriram may shed some light on this :smokin:

The biggest reformer in Hinduism was Sri Adi Sankaracharya who was born in kerala and he went northwards and defeated other intellectuals in logical debate and converted them to Hinduism, The famous one was Mandana Mishra of Mithila(Nepal) who lost debate against him and converted from Buddhism to Hinduism.
Maṇḍana Miśra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Adi Sankaracharya established "Shakti Peeths" All across the country,he put North Indian seers in charge of South Indian "Shakti Peeths" and, South Indian seers in Charge of North Indian "Shakti Peeths",thereby consolidating and stabilizing the unity of Bharat.
Adi Shankara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Which idiot believes your nonsense that northies were made as angels and southies were made as demons?
 
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