J-20 and T-50, which is better?

[johnqh]

GE filed a patent for a device that generates it and Russia claims it has tested the concept aboard the Su-27IB fighter in 2002.

US patent system is public. So show us the patent.

If you need any help, here is the USPTO web site... United States Patent and Trademark Office

 

[Akasa]

US patent system is public. So show us the patent.

If you need any help, here is the USPTO web site... United States Patent and Trademark Office

I did.

Anyways, here it is again:

espacenet - Bibliographic data

 

[punit]

Watching indians talk Sh!T and then getting BANNED and humilated is they most satisfying feeling of all.

u dont have much of life .. isnt it ?

 

[Black Widow]

J-20

T-50

How do you think?
My point is, J-20 is better than T-50, because the J-20 stealth performance and aerodynamic layout is better than T-50.

funny::: isn't it??? infact there is 2 members thanked him as well.... Whats your Age???? How old are you??? Some analyst firm must hire you, You have a inherent quality, You are able to compare two plane just based on looks ("How they look")....

 

[Black Widow]

Israel developed ERA armor before US, US buying our ERA today.
Israel developed battlefield UAV's before US, US used Israeli UAVs in 1991, 1999 and 2003 wars.
Israel was first country in the world to produce airborne AESA radar (Phalcon).
Israel developed 5th gen short range AA missiles before US. US adopted our helmet mounted sight system (JHMCS).
Israel first developed second gen targeting pod (Litening).
Israel deveped active protection system for tanks (Trophy, Iron Fist), suicide drones (Harpy, Harop), long range anti tank missiles (Spike NLOS, Nimrod), tanl launched anti tan missiles (Lahat). Americans dont have these systems.

Dont talk nonsense plz.

Original Post By 500

You are right, but Isreal tech is almost exclusively for its military. What about other areas?

With all due respect Mr Aerospace Engineer... Israel is far ahead in R&D. Some time back I saw a comparison of top military technology (on PDF, made by some gentleman ) Shockingly Israel name was not there.. He gave the reason as Israel don't make Helo, Aircraft, Aircraft carriers, Ships, it doesn't qualify in the league of extraordinary gentlemen...

But point here is, does Israel need to make these things???

Mr Aerospace Engineer also asked "What about other areas? ", he simply mean that Boss Israel is inferior coz they don't make Aircraft/carrier/destroyer, how can "500" claim Israel to be superior???? Yesterday some one claim that Israel is not able to make helos (in "Pakistan should make own helicopter thread)...

I am dammn sure that if Israel want, they can make these items , and they can make better than any other country in world.. they are not makeing doesn't means they can't make it....t

 

[below_freezing]

Original Post By 500



With all due respect Mr Aerospace Engineer... Israel is far ahead in R&D. Some time back I saw a comparison of top military technology (on PDF, made by some gentleman ) Shockingly Israel name was not there.. He gave the reason as Israel don't make Helo, Aircraft, Aircraft carriers, Ships, it doesn't qualify in the league of extraordinary gentlemen...

But point here is, does Israel need to make these things???

Mr Aerospace Engineer also asked "What about other areas? ", he simply mean that Boss Israel is inferior coz they don't make Aircraft/carrier/destroyer, how can "500" claim Israel to be superior???? Yesterday some one claim that Israel is not able to make helos (in "Pakistan should make own helicopter thread)...

I am dammn sure that if Israel want, they can make these items , and they can make better than any other country in world.. they are not makeing doesn't means they can't make it....t

By your logic:

China makes top telecom gear.

Therefore China can make top everything else. Just because we don't doesn't mean we can't.

What a joke!

Can Israel make its own airplane engines? Isn't that what you Indians use to insult us all the time? Why not turn the same magnifying glass to your great Israeli pals that treat Indian migrant workers like sh!t and see for yourself?

 

[UKBengali]

Original Post By 500



With all due respect Mr Aerospace Engineer... Israel is far ahead in R&D. Some time back I saw a comparison of top military technology (on PDF, made by some gentleman ) Shockingly Israel name was not there.. He gave the reason as Israel don't make Helo, Aircraft, Aircraft carriers, Ships, it doesn't qualify in the league of extraordinary gentlemen...

But point here is, does Israel need to make these things???

Mr Aerospace Engineer also asked "What about other areas? ", he simply mean that Boss Israel is inferior coz they don't make Aircraft/carrier/destroyer, how can "500" claim Israel to be superior???? Yesterday some one claim that Israel is not able to make helos (in "Pakistan should make own helicopter thread)...

I am dammn sure that if Israel want, they can make these items , and they can make better than any other country in world.. they are not makeing doesn't means they can't make it....t

Israel is advanced in very specific areas of military technology - such as radar,electronic warfare systems and certain types of missiles. While credit must be given where it is due, we must bear in mind that Israel has had a lot of help with US technology transfers and it is reasonable to conclude that Israel would have less advanced techology in this areas without US support.

As for your extrapolation that just because Israel can make advanced equipment like AESA AWACS, it can also do the same for other types of miltary tech like jet engines, that is simply not true. Otherwise why would you see a country like China that has operational AESA AWACS(KJ-2000) and AESA Destroyers(Type-052C) struggle to produce high-thrust turbofan engines? The reason is that some types of tech are much harder than others.

Let us use jet fighters as a example here which have 3 major parts; 1/Avionics, 2/Airframe and 3/ Engine. By far the most difficult to master is the engine. The airframe is easier and the avionics are the easiest. Israel is only advanced in producing the easy part of a fighter jet. It would really struggle to produce an advanced airframe that required the use of complex materials and there is no hope of it coming up with an engine such as that on the F-22, even by the year 2030.

What a lot of people do not realise is that the flight testing of the J-20 with a 155Kn engine in the WS-10G(no other country apart from the US has such a high-thrust engine currently flying) is more significant than that of producing a steathly airframe. Once China masters turbofan technology completely(I predict by the end of this decade) it would really be able to call itself an advanced military power.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Israel is advanced in very specific areas of military technology - such as radar,electronic warfare systems and certain types of missiles. While credit must be given where it is due, we must bear in mind that Israel has had a lot of help with US technology transfers and it is reasonable to conclude that Israel would have less advanced techology in this areas without US support.

As for your extrapolation that just because Israel can make advanced equipment like AESA AWACS, it can also do the same for other types of miltary tech like jet engines, that is simply not true. Otherwise why would you see a country like China that has operational AESA AWACS(KJ-2000) and AESA Destroyers(Type-052C) struggle to produce high-thrust turbofan engines? The reason is that some types of tech are much harder than others.

Let us use jet fighters as a example here which have 3 major parts; 1/Avionics, 2/Airframe and 3/ Engine. By far the most difficult to master is the engine. The airframe is easier and the avionics are the easiest. Israel is only advanced in producing the easy part of a fighter jet. It would really struggle to produce an advanced airframe that required the use of complex materials and there is no hope of it coming up with an engine such as that on the F-22, even by the year 2030.

What a lot of people do not realise is that the flight testing of the J-20 with a 155Kn engine in the WS-10G(no other country apart from the US has such a high-thrust engine currently flying) is more significant than that of producing a steathly airframe. Once China masters turbofan technology completely(I predict by the end of this decade) it would really be able to call itself an advanced military power.

Israel is capable of designing its own jets. They cannot fully do so because of American pressure. That is partly how the Lavi program was terminated.

But I agree, US support partly played a crucial role. The other part is Israeli ingenuity.

Oh and by the way, unlike what someone said - the idea of explosive reactive armor (ERA) originated in the USSR, not Israel. Although, Israel was one of the earliest countries to field it.

Composite armor was developed by the US.

Active protection systems present in modern day tanks was also originally developed by the Soviets.

 

[UKBengali]

Israel is capable of designing its own jets. They cannot fully do so because of American pressure. That is partly how the Lavi program was terminated.

But I agree, US support partly played a crucial role. The other part is Israeli ingenuity.

Oh and by the way, unlike what someone said - the idea of explosive reactive armor (ERA) originated in the USSR, not Israel. Although, Israel was one of the earliest countries to field it.

Composite armor was developed by the US.

Active protection systems present in modern day tanks was also originally developed by the Soviets.

In a word, NO.

Even your example of the Lavi is flawed as the only part of the Lavi that would have been fully indigenous would have been the avionics. The airframe would have designed and produced with huge assistance from the US and the Israelis made no attempt to even pretend they would try to produce an engine as it would be imported from the US.

 

[Black Widow]

By your logic:
China makes top telecom gear.
Therefore China can make top everything else. Just because we don't doesn't mean we can't.
What a joke!
Can Israel make its own airplane engines? Isn't that what you Indians use to insult us all the time? Why not turn the same magnifying glass to your great Israeli pals that treat Indian migrant workers like sh!t and see for yourself?

Did you read my post??? Did I mentioned China anywhere??? My Post was specific to Israeli capabilities, nothing else, so please don't blame something which I haven't told here...

I won't comment on china
And for second part of your comment... It is highly speculated that the machine (J10) which you run was given by Israel (Lavi) to jeopardized Russian arm sale.. Israelis were way ahead in making aircraft. It was American interest (possible competition to F16) they stopped LAVI. As they (Israeli) are not making Aircraft why they will make Engine??? But, if they will think to make it, they will make it as good as any other country...

And most important, if you are below 18 years old, Then accept my apologies... I am sorry i replied to ur post...

 

[Black Widow]

Israel is advanced in very specific areas of military technology - such as radar,electronic warfare systems and certain types of missiles. While credit must be given where it is due, we must bear in mind that Israel has had a lot of help with US technology transfers and it is reasonable to conclude that Israel would have less advanced techology in this areas without US support.

As for your extrapolation that just because Israel can make advanced equipment like AESA AWACS, it can also do the same for other types of miltary tech like jet engines, that is simply not true. Otherwise why would you see a country like China that has operational AESA AWACS(KJ-2000) and AESA Destroyers(Type-052C) struggle to produce high-thrust turbofan engines? The reason is that some types of tech are much harder than others.

Let us use jet fighters as a example here which have 3 major parts; 1/Avionics, 2/Airframe and 3/ Engine. By far the most difficult to master is the engine. The airframe is easier and the avionics are the easiest. Israel is only advanced in producing the easy part of a fighter jet. It would really struggle to produce an advanced airframe that required the use of complex materials and there is no hope of it coming up with an engine such as that on the F-22, even by the year 2030.

What a lot of people do not realise is that the flight testing of the J-20 with a 155Kn engine in the WS-10G(no other country apart from the US has such a high-thrust engine currently flying) is more significant than that of producing a steathly airframe. Once China masters turbofan technology completely(I predict by the end of this decade) it would really be able to call itself an advanced military power.

Have you heard of IAF LAVI??? Please go and read bout it, and try to see some resemblance of J10/FC20. They are expert in avionics, have experience of Airframe...

Engine: Israel has easy access of KT (Knowledge transfer) from USA. They can easily master Engine technology in no time...

I put the same point in thread "Pakistan should make its own helos", If you are not making it, it doesn't mean that you can't make it... If you have international friends who can do joint venture with you, you can easily make the things...

If India want We can run a JV with Russia to make 120KN+ engine... It's all depend upon how your friends trust you...

I WILL NOT COMMENT ON CHINA...

 

[UKBengali]

Have you heard of IAF LAVI??? Please go and read bout it, and try to see some resemblance of J10/FC20. They are expert in avionics, have experience of Airframe...

Engine: Israel has easy access of KT (Knowledge transfer) from USA. They can easily master Engine technology in no time...

I put the same point in thread "Pakistan should make its own helos", If you are not making it, it doesn't mean that you can't make it... If you have international friends who can do joint venture with you, you can easily make the things...

If India want We can run a JV with Russia to make 120KN+ engine... It's all depend upon how your friends trust you...

I WILL NOT COMMENT ON CHINA...

I am speechless! Now we have someone who claims that israel can produce an advanced stealth fighter. There is nothing further I can say

 

[Black Widow]

In a word, NO.

Even your example of the Lavi is flawed as the only part of the Lavi that would have been fully indigenous would have been the avionics. The airframe would have designed and produced with huge assistance from the US and the Israelis made no attempt to even pretend they would try to produce an engine as it would be imported from the US.

Again its depend upon requirement, They saw no point in designing new engine. Grippen runs on American engine, Indian LCA run on American engine, Rafael ran on American engine...

They didn't tried to develop that time doesn't means that they wouldn't or couldn't have thought to develop it... Imagine a situation, suppose Russia would have developed Engine in JV with china, is there any need to run separate project..

if China planning to make engine, they will make it.. there is no doubt, nothing is rocket science here.. Capability is not an issue, timeline is issue... Lets wait and watch....

 

[WARRANT]

I am speechless! Now we have someone who claims that israel can produce an advanced stealth fighter. There is nothing further I can say

Ofcourse they can design a stealth fighter and put 2 engines and make it fly and let fanboys claim they are the best in online forums.

 

[Zabaniyah]

In a word, NO.

Even your example of the Lavi is flawed as the only part of the Lavi that would have been fully indigenous would have been the avionics. The airframe would have designed and produced with huge assistance from the US and the Israelis made no attempt to even pretend they would try to produce an engine as it would be imported from the US.

What do you mean by "flawed"? Of-course, many countries import engines for both military and commercial jets. You are about it being a complex component.

For example, the Boeing 777 has many imported components from Japan and Europe. The engine is made in the USA.

Actually, the Lavi was a good design. The Chinese adopted it for their J-10.

IAI Lavi:

Chengdu J-10:

See the resemblance?

This jet is great for dog-fights.