J-20 and T-50, which is better?

[AerospaceEngineer]

Israel developed ERA armor before US, US buying our ERA today.
Israel developed battlefield UAV's before US, US used Israeli UAVs in 1991, 1999 and 2003 wars.
Israel was first country in the world to produce airborne AESA radar (Phalcon).
Israel developed 5th gen short range AA missiles before US. US adopted our helmet mounted sight system (JHMCS).
Israel first developed second gen targeting pod (Litening).
Israel deveped active protection system for tanks (Trophy, Iron Fist), suicide drones (Harpy, Harop), long range anti tank missiles (Spike NLOS, Nimrod), tanl launched anti tan missiles (Lahat). Americans dont have these systems.

Dont talk nonsense plz.

You are right, but Isreal tech is almost exclusively for its military. What about other areas?

 

[ironman]

^^ Aerospace Engineer is on a kamikaze mission..

 

[ironman]

You are right, but Isreal tech is almost exclusively for its military. What about other areas?

Do you know the Israeli contribution to Agri sector ?

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

^^ Aerospace Engineer is on a kamikaze mission..

Nah, I have never been banned on this place, not even a warning!

I am just sick of some members here trying to runing our threads!

If you can not contribuite positively, dont comment!

 

[gambit]

You are right, but Isreal tech is almost exclusively for its military. What about other areas?

You must be either joking or that incompetent. The other guy has a reputation of making claims with no supporting sources, now you are following in his steps.

 

[Speeder 2]

I$rael tech? that's what i guess what a significant part of annual US black defence budget has been for...

Gambit is laughing his pants off...

 

[gambit]

I$rael tech? that's what i guess what a significant part of annual US black defence budget has been for...

Gambit is laughing his pants off...

I was referring to your friend below_freezing who is well known for making claims without supporting sources.

 

[gambit]

You are right, but Isreal tech is almost exclusively for its military. What about other areas?

Try keywords search 'israeli medicine discoveries'.

 

[Speeder 2]

I was referring to your friend below_freezing who is well known for making claims without supporting sources.

gimme a break!

so you own me a "thank you" then?


logically it's impossible for Israel to come up with some major tech inventions.

some minor tech here and there due to its sizable Ashkenazi population, oke.

but a major tech? such as AESA? Impossible. I won't even look it up.

technologies have advanced to such a degree that every cutting edges are inter-related.

so only a handful of top world powers (US, China, Japan , Germany, Russia, France /UK mainly)in areas of fundamental research such as physics, chemistry, biology, materials science etc have a chance to come up with some major breakthru.

but Israel tech? err...maybe another teen-friendly "social networking" Bodybook (read Suckerberg Style Color Revolution ) underwritten by Goldman Sucks & the US state dept?

.

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

Isreal is small, it can not come up with whole system like a complete fighter and have to import.

But Isreal is very good at coming up with sub systems like radar system, Early warning systems, some avonics and other stuffs.

Again, the smartest Jews are not living in Isreal, they live in USA.

 

[Akasa]

Pure fan boy ..... Are you from school?

All you need to know is that I went to school, and unlike many of you, I know how to utilize information to make a point.

You obviously don't.

 

[Akasa]

I am Chinese....but this nonsense plasma "stealth" is making me sick.

The law of physics applies everywhere. There is no such thing as plasma stealth except spaceship re-entry, when it can neither be seen, nor see anything.

GE filed a patent for a device that generates it and Russia claims it has tested the concept aboard the Su-27IB fighter in 2002.

 

[Akasa]

Yeah...Only desperate and gullible Chinese fanboys will take that as legitimate argument.

If you want to know what is 'plasma stealth', I have already explained what it is and how is it actually applicable...

Oh, so you don't believe in news from General Electric now, huh? What happened to that American fanboy attitude of yours, where you'd just take about any anti-Chinese article as real regardless of its source?

What happened to the "American news is the most accurate news" theory?

Backfired?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/70321-stealth_-_a_russian_invention-2.html

Read it and learn something real...

Posting an article on the history of stealth technology has no relevance to discussion here.

Here is something for your knowledge on this matter, or rather lack thereof:
espacenet - Bibliographic data

There you go, the patent for Arnold Eldredge's on board particle accelerator that creates a cloud of ionized gas that can effectively deflect electromagnetic waves.

I thought you were the all-knowing person when it came to this plasma stealth concept. Guess I made a mistake.

 

[gambit]

Oh, so you don't believe in news from General Electric now, huh? What happened to that American fanboy attitude of yours, where you'd just take about any anti-Chinese article as real regardless of its source?

What happened to the "American news is the most accurate news" theory?

Backfired?



Posting an article on the history of stealth technology has no relevance to discussion here.

Here is something for your knowledge on this matter, or rather lack thereof:
espacenet - Bibliographic data

There you go, the patent for Arnold Eldredge's on board particle accelerator that creates a cloud of ionized gas that can effectively deflect electromagnetic waves.

The issue is not whether an ionized gas cloud can deflect EM signals or not. We knew about this property for DECADES. Its most prominent display is with ordinary communication radio transmission that are affected by atmospheric layers...

Radiowave Propagation and the Atmosphere :: Radio-Electronics.Com

Without the action of the atmosphere it would not be possible for radio communications signals to travel around the globe on the short wave bands, or travel greater than only the line of sight distance at higher frequencies.

The issue is how would such a plasma field be localized on a moving body.

I thought you were the all-knowing person when it came to this plasma stealth concept. Guess I made a mistake.

You did not make such a mistake. I do know more about this 'plasma stealth' concept than you do. I take it that what I explained went 'whooooosssshhh' over your head.

 

[ptldM3]

The wing geometry does in fact play a big role. Read Bill Sweetman's articles.

Yes, that is what I said, and the fact is the J-20 has poor wing geometry.

Here is what may impede the T-50's stealthiness when compared to the J-20:


- The T-50 does not have a smooth underside

Right, and the J-20 has a smooth 'underside'? It doesn't have four large objects, most likely hydraulic mechanisms) hanging from underneath the wings?

- Lack of panel alignment

You will provide a credible scientific source (not a magazine quote or blog quote) explaining 'panel alignment', than you will point out and be very specific where the J-20 has 'panel alignment' and where the pak-fa lacks 'panel alignment' than you will give an explanation as to why it is important, than you will make a quote from your credible chosen source that supports your claim.

- Gaps around the inlet

Same routine, as above ,but what is most delightful and plainly ignorant on your part is that the F-22 also has these 'gaps around the inlet'. Reading too much of Martians propaganda?

Please, I would like for you to explain yourself out of this one, here are those 'gaps':



Seems like you and Martian know better than the two largest and most experienced aircraft manufacturers in the world, correct?

- Spherical IRST

And the four large spheres underneath the J-20's wings don't apply? I forgot, physics don't apply to the J-20. By the way, the F-22 and pak-fa have the same spheres only much , much, much smaller. I wonder why the J-20's sphere are as large.........

- (Continued below)

The J-20 also has (which the T-50 does not):
- DSI

- Frameless bubble canopy

Don't care, half of the 'stealth' aircraft the US developed didn't have a bubble canopy.

- IR reducing tiles on the engines

As does the pak-fa.

- Possible plasma stealth technology

Lets keep the conversation realistic and relevant.

Looking at its airframe is possible to tell if it has at least a good chance at being a highly agile fighter.

Yes, like the Americans thought the Mig-25 was an agile fighter?

The reason why Chinese chose the canard delta design in its J-10A (which defeated J-11A 6:0) is because of its enhanced maneuverability.

Just because the Chinese chose a delta design doesn't mean they did it for maneuverability, there are a number of delta aircraft that would get humiliated in a dogfight. And the J-11A reference just proves that the J-11 pilot was an armature or incompetent or both, in Russian aggressor squadrons Mig-23's have achieved Mig-29 kills, despite having inferior avionics and very inferior maneuverability. That same J-11 pilot wound get spanked by the Mig-23.

The French, British, and Swedish also incorporated it into their fighters. The canards will definitely boost the J-20's maneuverability, while the deltas will decrease drag and increase performance in transonic and supersonic flight.

A good reason for the J-20's delta design was an attempt to improve the aircraft's range. While the canards may have been designed for improved maneuverability, they could also have been put in place because the radar and other avionics caused the J-20 to be too heavy in the nose, thus they had no other choice, this is the same problem early Sukhois had, until they managed to correct it.

In fact, the main reason the F-22 didn't adopt canards for maneuverability is its contribution to RCS. With the J-20's plasma stealth technology, however, the problem is solved.

How many American aircraft use canards? What makes you think the designers of the F-22 would ever use canards even if it had no consequences to RCS?

Even if the 117S derivative was upgraded as you described, it would produce an afterburning thrust of about 155 kN. That is about the same as the WS-10G engines installed on the J-20 prototype, and far less than that of the WS-15 engine, which will become the production engine of the J-20.

One of the Chinese members claimed that the WS-15 program was recently terminated.