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J-10C for PAF - Hypothetical Scenario

But sir Avionics wise JH-7A is much better than our mirages
That's great.

If PAF (ever) considers that - we'll move on from the Stone-age (Mirages) to the Medieval-age (JH-7).

I always thought the idea is to improve & move forward.
 
No you're mixing 2 projects, PL-21 (RAMJET) is abandon project in favor of dual pulse rocket motor, VLRAAM has a dual pulse rocket motor no RAMJET here it is
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JH-7 is more intended for deep strike/CAS role, not for long range air defense missions, but i agree its best available option for PAF for getting deep strike and CAS jet
VLRAAM is not the name of Chinese project.
It is a category of missiles. The RAMJET project, now termed PL-XX and earlier the PL-21 prototype, both are RAMJET separate projects. I don’t know about this dual pulse project you are talking about as PL-15 is the only known Dual Pulse motor BVR currently with PLAAF. Even PL-15 was earlier considered with a RAMJET motor but the miniaturization problem got in the way.

Not to forget, China will come out with its Ramjet, sooner or later. Determination and funding leads to end goals.

Can't deep strike be performed by JF-17 with CM-802AKG, and REK?
It’s like you are sending in your pilot and a valuable aircraft on a suicide mission with loadout compared to that of a bike instead of sending in JH-7/SU-34 which are comparable to trucks.

JF-17 can perform basic/intermediate ground roles but deep strike is not one of them. Its range, loadout restricts it. Not to blame, it is just a Light Fighter, not a heavy strike platform.

For such purpose, either we have options of Chinese flankers, JH-7s or Mirages (one way mission)
 
We often hear about PAF’s inability to procure advanced jets and the J-10 generally comes up for discussion in this context. Members have argued that the J-10 isn’t drastically different from the JF-17 and that it wouldn’t offer any major improvements over the JF-17.

The J-10C is now cleared for export. In this context, if PAF was able to mate the Turkish F-16 upgrade Özgür program into the J-10C along with upcoming Turkish BVR/WVR SOM cruise missiles and South African missiles, will this not offer significant advantages over the JF-17 and become credible replacement for the mirages and F-7 since the JF-17 can’t replace them all. With J-10, JF-17, F-16 and AZM project, PAF would still only operate 4 unique fighter planes which is well within the current trends.

arguments and counterargument welcome

Those who says J10’s are no different than jf17 are wrong from a battle perspective.

j10 C can go into battle today. The jf17 blk 3 is anout 3-5 years minimum away from battle.

so it is sheer stupidity to compare them to be same.

they are not—-one is ready today—the other would be in 5 years time
 
No as various senior Chinese member hesr like @Beast @ChineseTiger1986 @Cleno is closed by PLAAF and all Chinese AAMs is using dual pulse rocket motor like PL-8/PL-9/PL11/PL-12/PL-15/and PL-X
PL-X

The latest images (November 2016) indicated a new large VLRAAM is under development and its exact designation is unknown (PL-17?) . Compared to PL-12, it has 4 tail control fins only (coupled with TVC?) and is significantly longer and thicker than PL-12 (length 5.7m, diameter 300mm). Its large size suggests the missile actually belongs to a new class of VLRAAM and not a PL-12 replacement. As the result it cannot be carried internally by the 4th generation fighters such as J-20 but is expected to be carried externally by 3.5th generation long-range fighters/interceptors such as J-11D and J-16. However it may still be carried externally by J-20 underneath its wings. The missile appears to be propelled by a dual pulse rocket motor in favor of a ramjet engine, which has a smaller drag and a slimmer size. It is also speculated to fly a semi-ballistic trajectory similar to American AIM-54 in order to achieve an extra long range (range>300km, speed>Mach 4, cruising altitude 30km). PL-X is believed to feature an advanced guidance system including a two-way datalink and a new active AESA seeker with enhanced ECCM capability. Before the launch the missile must obtain the target information via datalink from an AWACS, a land-based long-range radar or even a satellite. The launch aircraft disengages right after releasing the missile. After the initial ascent stage, the missile may use Beidou+INS+datalink guidance during the mid-course cruising stage. At the terminal diving stage, in combination with the AESA seeker, it may also use an IIR seeker as indicated by a small optical window in its nose, which further increases its kill probability amid severe jamming. Therefore this VLRAAM could pose a serious threat to high-value aerial targets deep behind the enemy line such as AWACS and tankers, and currently is the only type in this class. It was rumored in November 2016 that a PL-X was test-fired successfully from a J-16.
VLRAAM is not the name of Chinese project.
It is a category of missiles. The RAMJET project, now termed PL-XX and earlier the PL-21 prototype, both are RAMJET separate projects. I don’t know about this dual pulse project you are talking about as PL-15 is the only known Dual Pulse motor BVR currently with PLAAF. Even PL-15 was earlier considered with a RAMJET motor but the miniaturization problem got in the way.

Not to forget, China will come out with its Ramjet, sooner or later. Determination and funding leads to end goals.


It’s like you are sending in your pilot and a valuable aircraft on a suicide mission with loadout compared to that of a bike instead of sending in JH-7/SU-34 which are comparable to trucks.

JF-17 can perform basic/intermediate ground roles but deep strike is not one of them. Its range, loadout restricts it. Not to blame, it is just a Light Fighter, not a heavy strike platform.

For such purpose, either we have options of Chinese flankers, JH-7s or Mirages (one way mission)
PL-15

It was first rumored in 2011 that 607 Institute was developing the next generation of active radar homing LRAAM dubbed PL-15 replacing PL-12 which is comparable to American AIM-120D . The missile was initially speculated as a PL-12 variant (PL-12C?) but it appears to be a new design. PL-15 features redesigned stabilizing fins and tail control fins with smaller wingspans in order to fit into the internal weapon bay of J-20 (up to 4). A major improvement of the missile is a new a dual pulse rocket motor which could extend its range up to 200km. Its two-way datalink and a new active/passive dual mode AESA seeker onboard will give it an excellent ECCM capability against severe jamming. A PL-15 prototype was first seen underneath the wing of a J-11B testbed in 2012. In 2013 PL-15 was first seen inside J-20's main internal weapon bay during its weapon integration tests. It was reported by US intelligence that PL-15 was successfully test-fired from a J-11B in 2015. In 2016 PL-15 started to be carried by J-10C, J-11B and by J-16 a year later. The further improved version (PL-20?) was rumored to have been under development. It might feature a streamlined missile body with a smaller diameter so that additional missiles can be fitted into the internal weapon bay of J-20 (up to 6). The latest rumor (March 2019) claimed that PL-15 has been cleared for export as PL-15E.
 
Most likely Erieye does communicate with JF17 thought link 17 as Saab does advertise them being able to integrate custom links otherwise it doesn't make sense for PAF to add more Erieye.
That is not confirmed yet, and pairing Erieye to PL-15 will be difficult.


SAMs are too static to be defended for a long time, Indians will launch many SEAD missions against it. Also, nobody is willing to export long range SAMs, hell even the 400km S-400 missile isn't being exported.
 
Well, i think people are underestimating JF17 thunder. I don't know how good DCS is to evaluate a jet but i have been watching alot of youtubed videos of DCS and the gurus there seemed amazed with the performance of JF17 with SD10 and very high maneuverability.

I doubt that any other jet, even J10 can fulfill the needs of PAF the way Jf17 is getting it done.
so fifth gen should be the next logical step.
 
Most likely Erieye does communicate with JF17 thought link 17 as Saab does advertise them being able to integrate custom links otherwise it doesn't make sense for PAF to add more Erieye.
no he is talking about guiding PL-15 through erieye, which is not possible
 
DCS is worth nothing, believe on games/sims
They go directly to Chinese manufactures of these missiles. Don't you think manufactures would know best?

Here "FIXED GROUND TARGETS"

CM-802AKG_1.jpg
 
thanks my mistake but Pakistan don't have CM-802 AKG but C-802 anti ship missiles
Well it should be bought in my opinion, 200km could be good for attacking Indian targets. And precision is like 5-6 meters because IR/TV guidance.

 
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