J-10 might not needed as they don't add anything to PAF's capability

[Signalian]

With only 18 block 52+ it will be tough to counter 36+ rafale 272+ shukoi 30mki if IAf strike multiple front . Last months counter must be a glorious moment but can't be example for future if you have to engage multiple front , supporting ground troops . as J-10C won't provide any extra except range and weapons load Pakistan must focus on J-31 and try to get V upgrade to all F-16 along with few more bird. Besides this leasing 40-60 won't be bad until all JF-17 block III delivered to face any future aggression by IAF. After getting smack their *** they must want a revenge to save their image.

I don't understand Why do you say that PAF has only 18 capable aircraft and those just Block 52+'s. The other F-16's are as capable as Block 52+'s in combat and missions. JF-17 has been upgraded with new A2A missiles and has been effective in all its deployments. Mirage-III are BVR capable and deployed in AD missions, especially ROSE upgraded. The strike element is for F-16's and JF-17's is supplemented by Mirage-V's, both ROSE as well as other upgraded ones. F-7 PG are 2 decades old, upgraded as interceptors for AD role. PAF has used DA-20 Falcon, ERIEYE and ZDK-03 effectively recently, which means PAF will put them to full use in real war. These are force multipliers after all. For long range missions and continuous CAP's, PAF has IL-78 refuelers. PAF has ALCM's and long range bombs for deep strikes. This is further complimented by Pakistan's surface to surface missiles with variable ranges.

JF-17 Block III covers as well improves the technological gap for PAF, which was once desired from F-16 but couldn't do so because of sanctions. Instead of utilizing 1-2 Billion USD to get an aircraft like J-10C, which falls somewhere near to JF-17 Block III and F-16's, its better to use that money elsewhere, like 5th Gen aircraft which can surely give a thorough edge above all 4.5 Gen aircrafts of IAF. If increasing numbers is important, its important to induct more JF-17 and more F-16's (if possible), instead of inducting a platform like J-10C which brings nothing new to the table. Raising a squadron of JF-17 Block III every year or 2, will easily retire F-7's and upgraded Mirages.

 

[Asian.Century]

Gripen and JF-17 flying at Dubai Air Show:

 

[ShaikhKamal]

Pakistan and US relations are improving and Pakistan must use it's own funds to buy a squadron of F-16 Block 70 to counter Rafale fighters. The JF-17 Block III are good fighters but Indian Rafale can only be overmatched with F16 Block 70.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Pakistan and US relations are improving and Pakistan must use it's own funds to buy a squadron of F-16 Block 70 to counter Rafale fighters. The JF-17 Block III are good fighters but Indian Rafale can only be overmatched with F16 Block 70.

And get AIM120D missiles

 

[ShaikhKamal]

And get AIM120D missiles

Pakistan should also get upgrade package to bring our existing Viper fleet up to the very similar F-16V standard.

 

[Fledgingwings]

PAF is doing a good job just like france which uses only one design the delta wing mirage 2000 plus a recent entry of similiar but more advance rafale.Having JF17 is the plateform which will replace every single aircraft in PAF including F7s and Mirages.So I vote Thunder over any other plateform.

 

[mingle]

Pakistan and US relations are improving and Pakistan must use it's own funds to buy a squadron of F-16 Block 70 to counter Rafale fighters. The JF-17 Block III are good fighters but Indian Rafale can only be overmatched with F16 Block 70.

Not one Atleast three Sqd plus surplus F16 from EU and Jorden Upgrade them with V it would be around 6 to 7 billion package

 

[Ali_Baba]

Pakistan and US relations are improving and Pakistan must use it's own funds to buy a squadron of F-16 Block 70 to counter Rafale fighters. The JF-17 Block III are good fighters but Indian Rafale can only be overmatched with F16 Block 70.

OR get a full European Radar and avionics and weapons suite that includes the Meteor BVRAAM on the JF17 airframe? Will work out cheaper and it will protect the intellectual property of the Meteor missile as the full end-to-end suite will be european, but you donot incur the airframe cost and you reduce overall maintenance cost by reusing JF17 support infrastructure with an incremental increase for the western avionics suite.

The other alternative, is possibly a Turkish avionics suite with her AMMs missles and ask for the integration of the Meteor missile onto a Turkish avionics plaform.

Note, the avionics platform for the war fighting capabilities can be seperated from those systems required for the airframe and associate subsystems to operate.

Just a thought, but i believe it will be more cost effective as PAF, needs to ensure some diversity to maintain military capability.

Ideally, the JF17 Block III has been re-engineered to be this flexible, with a view to providing future sales that can be more tied to customer requirements.

 

[52051]

One thing J-10C offer over FC-1 is, it has much larger nose and much stronger powertrain to accommodate much higher power AESA radar than the one you expect to be fitted on FC-1 block3.

The other main improvement is, thanks to its design, J-10C has some LO feature, during PLAAF military exercises, there are sayings that besides J-20, J-10C is the hardest fighter to be locked on, other PLAAF fighters, besides J-20 and J-16 which equipped with very high power AESA radar, always lost J-10C simply due to its semi-stealth front area design.

The IAF's future French bird, will have similar if not harder time to find J-10C in air-combat, thanks to its very small nose and last-gen radar.

Btw, according to Thailand airforce's military exercise with PLAAF, J-10A can soundly beat Thailand's Gripen, so I expect a much improved J-10C with LO features, can surely give another European canard a good run for its money.

 

[ShaikhKamal]

OR get a full European Radar and avionics and weapons suite that includes the Meteor BVRAAM on the JF17 airframe

Europeans may not allow their avionics systems to be integrated on JF-17 Block III due to the fears that the Chinese may try to copy them.

One thing J-10C offer over FC-1 is, it has much larger nose and much stronger powertrain to accommodate much higher power AESA radar than the one you expect to be fitted on FC-1 block3

J-10C is another option besides the F-16V Block 70/72 to counter Rafale. All Pakistanis F-16s can also be upgraded to F-16V with upgrade kits.

 

[Deino]

...
J-10C is another option besides the F-16V Block 70/72 to counter Rafale. All Pakistanis F-16s can also be upgraded to F-16V with upgrade kits.

And how likely it is that the USA will allow this upgrade?

 

[ShaikhKamal]

And how likely it is that the USA will allow this upgrade?

They will allow the upgrades as Afghan Civil War comes to an end and the recent Pakistan-India clashes in Indian-occupied Kashmir were limited to the conventional weapons. As Pakistan will resort to nuclear weapons if it feels it's conventional defense is not adequate against the Indian aggression.

 

[SABRE]

They will allow the upgrades as Afghan Civil War comes to an end and the recent Pakistan-India clashes in Indian-occupied Kashmir were limited to the conventional weapons. As Pakistan will resort to nuclear weapons if it feels it's conventional defense is not adequate against the Indian aggression.

In principle, they would allow 'certain upgrades' only if we pay for them. However, the India lobby on the Capitol Hill is quite strong; & much of the bureaucracy in State Department & Pentagon is accessively pro-India and anti-Pakistan. It will require a lot of maneuvering & lobbying on our behalf. I doubt that they will sell us anything extraordinary.

 

[New World]

If pockets were deep, which they are not, so Block -III should be a good stop gap.

By the way, what advantage do you think Rafale has above Block III apart from Range and payload ?


Stealthy aircraft could give an edge over Rafale, where as J10C could be comparable, but can you mention any factor of dominance for J 10C over Rafale which Block III is incapable of ?

Advantages of J-10 for PAF.

1. It will negate US influence or pressure on PAF.
2. Easily available without any strings.
3. Maintenance parts will be easily available in the time of war.
4. Can easily be bought after the war to shore up numbers.
5. Integrate any weapon you have.
6. Use anywhere at anytime in any role.
7. Can also be used for Navy.
8. Sanctions will not hamper the readiness just like in late 1990s.
9. J-10 can also support the upcoming 5th generation fighter.

 

[Trailer23]

And how likely it is that the USA will allow this upgrade?

'likely' is linked with Money.

And its no secret that we're currently short on funds based on our Economic situation. However, if the Ministry of Defense can cough up the funds required, its not something that they'd turn down. It isn't as if we'd be asking to buy new jets.

I think the US is (also) pleased with how well we've marketed their F-16 (recently), regardless what blow-holes are screaming across the border.

And we playing the Middle Man in their Afghan Peace process could be a factor.