'It's better to be a Muslim living in India'

[twoplustwoisfour]

For majority it is bitter to be a Muslim living in India.

Ha ha ha ha.

I see what you did there. You're so smart, aren't you.

(Sarcasm intended).

 

[EjazR]

- - I want you to know one thing. Everything that is happening in Egypt is the choice of its people and no other country has right to criticize it.

As far as India is concerned, you being a democratic state must support whatever is happening in Egypt. Mubarak is in rule for 30 yrs and people want a ruler that is chosen with their consent.

No body is criticising the protests but definitely criticising the Mubarak regime that was very opressive and in some cases didn't even allow freely practicing your own religion.

And GoI has come with a tentative support for more reforms in Egypt whi is understandable given that its official statements. Pakistan has not even made any statement on Egypt as far as I know.

While there is more loud support among the many of the average Indians - both Muslimsand non-Muslims on the side of the pro-democracy activists.

Infact, India had better relationship with Egypt under Nasser than under Mubarak who was a a cold war warrior and not so warm with India either.

 

[The HBS Guy]

For majority it is bitter to be a Muslim living in India.

How Pretty!

And in Pakistan, muslims or hindus or christians or Shias or Ahmedis get showered with rose petals from the heavens.

BTW, how's Asia Bibi nowadays?

 

[EjazR]

1. 39% of Muslims spend their lives at the lowest level of poverty
2. In whole the country only 4% of Muslims are on government jobs
3. Out of the 4% government employees 98.7% are on ordinary jobs
4. Literacy rate among Muslims of India is 35%
5. 68% of Muslim childern get to get admission in schools where in 'shoodars' this count is 80%
6. In rural areas 95% of Muslims are on a lowest level of poverty
7. Only 2% of Muslims have their own tractors
8. 1% of Muslims in India have their own water hand-pumps
9. 40% rural Muslims of India never see the school
10. No property deals buys or sells any flat or home to Muslims in Hindu populated areas (Javed Akhtar & Shahrukh Khan are also a victim of this, Not included in report).
11. The level of trust of Government of India over Muslims is that only 2% of them are employed in India's biggest agency CBI
12. In RAW and BSF there is not a single Muslim employed
13. In all security forces included police only 3% are Muslims

Much said for noww, for people who understand..

Sorry but almost every bullet point here is wrong. And this is not mentioned in the MilliGazette article that you linked to. I dont' have the time to give you sources to correct each statistic but you should really read the Sachar report in total before making statements on it.

Suffice to say that RAW and BSF does have a number of Muslim officers and Punjab DG BSF on the Indian side happens to be a muslim for the last two years among others.

Literacy rate of Muslims in India according to 2001 census(it will be higher now) is 59.1%. The average is 65%. This is higher than Pakistan 1998 census which was 49% at that time. In other words Muslims in India are more literate. This also masks regional differences. For example, in eight states muslim literacy is higher than the national average as well as the majority Hindus in the state mainly in the south and west.

Muslim poverty rate according to NCAER survey 2004-5 was 31%. All India average was 27.5%. While Dalits and Adivasis(tribals) were 32% and 50% respectively.

And lastly, to have a more apples to apples comparison, we should be comparing the status of Muslim (minorities) in India to Christians or Hindus (minorities) in Pakistan. What is their literacy, employment, poverty levels?

 

[LaBong]

And lastly, to have a more apples to apples comparison, we should be comparing the status of Muslim (minorities) in India to Christians or Hindus (minorities) in Pakistan. What is their literacy, employment, poverty levels?

I'd like Indian Muslims to be compared with their Pakistani counterpart. According to constitution minorities in India suppose to enjoy same rights as majority, which is not true in case of Pakistan. So minorities in India aren't equivalent to minorities in Pakistan.

 

[Guli Danda]

do Indian Muslims really know their home condition's reality? its a shame that in so called democratic society people like Arun Dhati Roy and Dr Bnaik Sen are victimized! a society in which dalits and particularly Muslim community is tortured and forced to live like animals..

..( Summarised Sachar Report on Status of Indian Muslims)

Justice Rajinder Sachir presided a seven member committee to make a report on Muslims of India. This report was submitted to PM Manmohan Sing on November 30, 2006. This report says that in the areas of Muslim population, there is a severe lack of government related facilities which include food, transport, roads, infrastructure, electricity, hospital, bank etc. Apart of it the statistics included in the report are scaring.

1. 39% of Muslims spend their lives at the lowest level of poverty
2. In whole the country only 4% of Muslims are on government jobs
3. Out of the 4% government employees 98.7% are on ordinary jobs
4. Literacy rate among Muslims of India is 35%
5. 68% of Muslim childern get to get admission in schools where in 'shoodars' this count is 80%
6. In rural areas 95% of Muslims are on a lowest level of poverty
7. Only 2% of Muslims have their own tractors
8. 1% of Muslims in India have their own water hand-pumps
9. 40% rural Muslims of India never see the school
10. No property deals buys or sells any flat or home to Muslims in Hindu populated areas (Javed Akhtar & Shahrukh Khan are also a victim of this, Not included in report).
11. The level of trust of Government of India over Muslims is that only 2% of them are employed in India's biggest agency CBI
12. In RAW and BSF there is not a single Muslim employed
13. In all security forces included police only 3% are Muslims

Much said for noww, for people who understand..

No muslim employed in BSF?That tells you are entirely faking it out!!

BSF
_______________________

The Constitution is the State Religion of India. Every state, administration, judiciary, and every citizen is duty bound to abide by the Constitution. Equality of every citizen irrespective of caste, religion, language, place of birth, profession etc. is the vision and aim of the Constitution. If in any office, or state administration, or in any post the representation of any community is below its proportion of population, it must be understood that inequal treatment has been meted out to that particular community.

According to the Constitution, any form of discrimination based on religion, caste, race, and gender is punishable by law. Yet no observer can deny that caste is a ubiquitous aspect of Indian social life. Caste is something that the state does not recognize and approve of, but its presence is undeniable.

We can be proud of having such a secular, democratic constitution of ours. Our constitution can be described as one of the best in the world. I would like to cite certain vital clauses of Indian Constitution which ensure Minority Rights.
_____
Yes there is some discrimination against Muslims but that is being looked into.
Where does it come from!?Reservation For Muslims In West Bengal ââ

The muslims are themselves proud of the Indian constitution which unlike Pakistani constitution looks forward for all religions.

Get a life!

 

[MM_Haider]

You are surprised?

Because that is called freedom of speech.. no need to pay for that, constitution give such liberty in our country. Nobody will shoot you here.

By applying your logic then, the most rich people might be Arundhati Roy, Hurriyat ppl etc..

Oh come on.. when it comes to your interests freedom of speech losts somewhere in the air.. most of time Ali Gilanai and other Hurriat leaders are bound in their homes ... Andurati Roy is condemed by your govt and threatened .. What is happeneing to Dr Binayaek Sen? You doesn't, surely, possess the knowledge what freedom of speech is who compares freedom of speech with richness.. lolzz.. it is just like comparing apples with oranges..

 

[MM_Haider]

Sorry but almost every bullet point here is wrong. And this is not mentioned in the MilliGazette article that you linked to. I dont' have the time to give you sources to correct each statistic but you should really read the Sachar report in total before making statements on it.

Suffice to say that RAW and BSF does have a number of Muslim officers and Punjab DG BSF on the Indian side happens to be a muslim for the last two years among others.

Literacy rate of Muslims in India according to 2001 census(it will be higher now) is 59.1%. The average is 65%. This is higher than Pakistan 1998 census which was 49% at that time. In other words Muslims in India are more literate. This also masks regional differences. For example, in eight states muslim literacy is higher than the national average as well as the majority Hindus in the state mainly in the south and west.

Muslim poverty rate according to NCAER survey 2004-5 was 31%. All India average was 27.5%. While Dalits and Adivasis(tribals) were 32% and 50% respectively.

And lastly, to have a more apples to apples comparison, we should be comparing the status of Muslim (minorities) in India to Christians or Hindus (minorities) in Pakistan. What is their literacy, employment, poverty levels?

What do you mean by every bullet point is wrong? this is the extract of report by an Indian Justice.. essentially you are saying that he is wrong.. but not my friend.. this is the fact that the worls knows and just by your saying the reality cannot be changed. When you guys dont have any answers, you cry for links,

1. The Famous wikipedia:Sachar Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1. In the field of literacy the Committee has found that the rate among Muslims is very much below than the national average. The gap between Muslims and the general average is greater in urban areas and women. 25 per cent of children of Muslim parents in the 6-14 year age group have either never attended school or have dropped out.
2. Muslim parents are not averse to mainstream education or to send their children to affordable Government schools. The access to government schools for children of Muslim parents is limited.
3. Bidi workers, tailors and mechanics need to be provided with social safety nets and social security. The participation of Muslims in the professional and managerial cadre is low.
4. The average amount of bank loan disbursed to the Muslims is 2/3 of the amount disbursed to other minorities. In some cases it is half. The Reserve Bank of India’s efforts to extend banking and credit facilities under the Prime Minister’s 15-point programme of 1983 has mainly benefited other minorities marginalizing Muslims.
5. There is a clear and significant inverse association between the proportion of the Muslim population and the availability of educational infrastructure in small villages. Muslim concentration villages are not well served with pucca approach roads and local bus stops.
6. Substantially larger proportion of the Muslim households in urban areas are in the less than Rs.500 expenditure bracket.
7. The presence of Muslims has been found to be only 3% in the IAS, 1.8% in the IFS and 4% in the IPS.
8. Muslim community has a representation of only 4.5% in Indian Railways while 98.7% of them are positioned at lower levels. Representation of Muslims is very low in the Universities and in Banks. Their share in police constables is only 6%, in health 4.4%, in transport 6.5%.
9. For the Maulana Azad Education Foundation to be effective the corpus fund needs to be increased to 1000 crores. Total allocation in the four years 2002 to 2006 for Madarsa Modernization Scheme is 106 crores. The information regarding the Scheme has not adequately percolated down. Even if the share of Muslims in elected bodies is low they and other under represented segments can be involved in the decision making process through innovative mechanisms.
10. Most of the variables indicate that Muslim-OBCs are significantly deprived in comparison to Hindu-OBCs. The work participation rate (WPR) shows the presence of a sharp difference between Hindu-OBCs (67%) and the Muslims. The share of Muslim-OBCs in government/ PSU jobs is much lower than Hindu-OBCs.
11. There are about 5 lakh registered Wakfs with 600,000 acres (2,400 km²) land and Rs 6,000 crore book value.

2. Your question about police:http://minorityaffairs.gov.in/newsite/sachar/sachar_comm.pdf

Employment in Civil Services

The civil lists available for the key services, namely the Indian Administrative Service, Indian Foreign Service and Indian Police Service for the year 2006 were analysed to find out the share of Muslims. This was undertaken by identifying the religion of a government employee by her name and only in 10 cases out of the total 8827 entries was it not possible to ascertain the religion of the employee (Table 9.2). The presence of Muslims was found to be only 3% in the IAS, 1.8% in
the IFS and 4% in the IPS. Moreover, Muslims who have secured high level appointments could do it mostly as ‘promoted candidates’; their share as direct recruits through competitive examinations is low at 2.4%, 1.9% and 2.3% respectively.

National Security Agencies

India has about 19 lakh employees in various security agencies including the three wings of the defence forces. However, details of the levels of positions of SRCs are available only for 5.2 lakh employees belonging to
the Border Security Force, Central Reserve Police Force, Central Industrial Security Force and Sashastra Seema Bal. The share of Muslims even in these security agencies is as low as 3.6% at the higher and 4.6%at the lower levels/categories of employment. Taking all agencies together, practically all Muslim (96%) employees are positioned at the lower levels, especially in Group C, with only about 2% as Group ‘A’ or Group ‘B’ officers. Excepting Group D, which has only 4% of all jobs in
security agencies, in which SCs/STs have a 37% presence, all other positions are dominated by the Other Hindu (includes H-General and H-OBCs) category. One also finds that about 11% of Group A jobs are held by those belonging to minorities other than the Muslims. (Appendix Table 9.2)

In bold answers your apple to apple comparison..

3. An Eye Opener to Pathetic Status of Indian Muslims:

Sachar Report: Eye-Opener To Pathetic Status Of Indian Muslims : The Muslim Observer

In rural areas, 94.9% of Muslims living below poverty line fail to receive free food grain.

Only 3.2% of Muslims get subsidized loans, with just 1.9% benefiting from the Antyodaya Anna Yojana Scheme, a program supposed to prevent starvation among the extremely poor by providing food grains at a subsidized rate. Compared to the national average of 43% of people not having land in rural areas, that of Muslims is 60.2%. Only 2.1% of Muslim farmers have tractors, while just 1% own hand pumps.

Educationally, 54.6% of Muslims in villages and 60% in urban areas have never been to schools. The national average for this is 40.8% in rural areas and 19.9% in urban. In rural areas, only 0.8% of Muslims are graduates, while in urban areas despite 40% of the Muslims receiving modern education only 3.1% are graduates. Only 1.2% of Muslims are post-graduates in urban areas. The representation of Muslims in government employment does not match their population in any state. While West Bengal has 25% Muslim population, only 4.2% are employed in state services. In Assam, with a 40% Muslim population, only 11.2% are in government employment. Kerala has 20% Muslims, but only 10.4% of government employees are Muslim.

List goes on...

http://pay.hindu.com/ebook%20-%20ebfl20061215part1.pdf

The Sachar Report:An Objective Analysis (This article also appeared in the Hindustan Times (web) : Vivek Gumaste blogs on sulekha, Current Affairs blogs, Vivek Gumaste blog from india

Read the above stuff and then shout with the deepest curvature of your lungs that "India is better place of Indian Muslims".. huh

 

[MM_Haider]

No muslim employed in BSF?That tells you are entirely faking it out!!

BSF
_______________________

The Constitution is the State Religion of India. Every state, administration, judiciary, and every citizen is duty bound to abide by the Constitution. Equality of every citizen irrespective of caste, religion, language, place of birth, profession etc. is the vision and aim of the Constitution. If in any office, or state administration, or in any post the representation of any community is below its proportion of population, it must be understood that inequal treatment has been meted out to that particular community.

According to the Constitution, any form of discrimination based on religion, caste, race, and gender is punishable by law. Yet no observer can deny that caste is a ubiquitous aspect of Indian social life. Caste is something that the state does not recognize and approve of, but its presence is undeniable.

We can be proud of having such a secular, democratic constitution of ours. Our constitution can be described as one of the best in the world. I would like to cite certain vital clauses of Indian Constitution which ensure Minority Rights.
_____
Yes there is some discrimination against Muslims but that is being looked into.
Where does it come from!?Reservation For Muslims In West Bengal ââ

The muslims are themselves proud of the Indian constitution which unlike Pakistani constitution looks forward for all religions.

Get a life!

Constitution is one thing and ground reality is one thing.

 

[LaBong]

Army hold most land, why don't they spend to uplift the Army. Why they need money from government for everything.
I have high regard and respect for our Armed forces but the biased and illogical post of yours need to be corrected.

Please learn about waqf first then comment

Waqf also works under GOI.
Waqf was not formed to uplift life of ordinary muslims.


And you are right about corruption in waqf board.
Please google for Waqf council India

I missed your post. Anyway, Waqf board is an independent council and has nothing to do with GoI, however presently it is headed by a person who's now Minister of Minority Affairs.

The land of army is used for the purpose it is meant for, the very purpose of Waqf is to uplift the Muslims, what are they doing on this regard?

Now please don't come up with weird logic that Waqf is controlled by someone else, like the last time I asked why don't Tirupati spend money for uplift of Dalits, I was replied that Tirupati is controlled by pseudo secular.

 

[LaBong]

What do you mean by every bullet point is wrong? this is the extract of report by an Indian Justice.. essentially you are saying that he is wrong.. but not my friend.. this is the fact that the worls knows and just by your saying the reality cannot be changed. When you guys dont have any answers, you cry for links

Genius, the wiki page don't match with outlandish claims of your previous post which your countrymen thanked so veraciously, does it?

Indian Muslims along with SC/ST Hindus are indeed lacking compared to Higher Caste Hindus, but they still are more literate, have longer life expectancy, have more job opportunity than Pakistani Muslims.

And if he is an Ahmadi Muslim, he has more religious freedom as well.

 

[MM_Haider]

Genius, the wiki page don't match with outlandish claims of your previous post which your countrymen thanked so veraciously, does it?

Indian Muslims along with SC/ST Hindus are indeed lacking compared to Higher Caste Hindus, but they still are more literate, have longer life expectancy, have more job opportunity than Pakistani Muslims.

And if he is an Ahmadi Muslim, he has more religious freedom as well.

please point out where outline doesn't match.. and not only read wikipedie link. read others as well.. (phew, have to baby sit)....

BTW, read all the stuff above, they match or not match.. the bottom line of all is..."India is NOT the better place for Indian Muslims.. future i can't predict but as of now, simple NO...

(FYI, Ahmadis are not Muslims and all the Ahmadis in Pakistan are being treated just like other minorities. But point here is not the situation of minorities in Pk rather it is situatrion of Muslims in India. Better stick to the topic)

 

[Trisonics]

BTW, read all the stuff above, they match or not match.. the bottom line of all is..."India is NOT the better place for Indian Muslims.. future i can't predict but as of now, simple NO...

(FYI, Ahmadis are not Muslims and all the Ahmadis in Pakistan are being treated just like other minorities. But point here is not the situation of minorities in Pk rather it is situatrion of Muslims in India. Better stick to the topic)

Its just your sentiment. The only things you keep beating around is Gujrat which was in the last decade. India is not perfect but unlike Pakistan it is evolving. The recent attack on Varnasi and the Babri verdict gives enough evidence of how India is different from Pakistan. Remember you guys went out on the streets hearing the Babri verdict?

of course, there will be cases but the scene overall has vastly improved. Muslims in India are also doing a great job in representing Islam. Now, Pakistan as a land carved for the Muslims cannot come close to Indian Muslims when it comes to conduct and representation of Islam.

Indian Muslims also benefit from living with people of various faiths. Hence, they learn and teach tolereance. I will not even go to the rift between sunnis and shia in Pakistan but it is strange that a nation carved for Muslims kill more Muslims because they are from different sect?

Lastly, India's economy and education gives the Indian Muslim opportunities that Muslims in Pakistan cannot get at the same level.

As far as South Asia is concerned, Muslims in India do have a better living!!!

 

[flameboard]

This is a ploy to make is harder for Muslims to live in India. People may be finding that Muslims are more successful than them maybe because the Muslim community in India is a hardworking, skilled and determined one, I really don't know but this is how such feelings are rising in rest of the world towards people from South Asia, who generally are very determined to be successful.

 

[true_indian]

Why are we comparing Indian Muslims to Pakistani Muslims. In Pakistan Muslims are the majority and in India they are the minority. Although the constitution assures equal right to minorities in India they do face few hardships like the minorities in any other country. But the point is Muslims in India are not discriminated by law which cannot be said about Pakistan.

All the mishaps that happened against Muslims in India are people's fault not constitution's. They are teething problems in any emerging democracy. As the people get educated and developed these mishaps wont happen. At least in India we don't force a particular sect to pledge 'rama' as their only prophet, do we?

PS: Indian Muslims are more famous outside their respective countries than their Pakistani counterparts.

Abdul Kalam Azad, Azim Premji, Sharukh Khan, Fareed Zakaria, Zaved akhtar to name a few.