'It's better to be a Muslim living in India'

[Al-zakir]

The Muslim youth categorically say it's much better to be a Muslim living in India than to be one living in the other Islamic countries. “India has peace, freedom, education and opportunities. Which Muslim country has all of these together?” said Sadia.

Good for them. Good luck from us.

 

[Bilal Akhtar]

Well most of the educated indian muslims i have met dont really agree with the ideology of pakistan.That is their choice,but i do see they envy pakistani muslims and dont let go of any oppurtunity to disgrace them.Well as i see their loyalty is questioned in india,pakistan is a yardstick of their patrotism.I really dont understand what they want.If they support pakistan then they are saying that they disagree with their elders decision of staying over in india rather then moving to pakistan.Some geniuley wanted to move to pakistan but could not due to resources.one indian muslim doctor i met in britian said that most indian mulisms who where rich moved over to pakistan and the poor stayed back as they could not afford to go to pakistan,earlier he said that he disagreed with the ideology of Quaid e azam and partition was a mistake.Im confused seriously.
YouTube - Narendra Modi Exposed on Gujarat riots 1

YouTube - Narendra Modi Exposed on Gujarat riots 2

 

[aakash_2410]

First of all make no mistake that you must abide by the rules of this forum and avoid making fun of religious punnishments. You have no idea what are you talking about.
secondly shariah punnishments are only in Saudi Arabia, none of the other above said countries.
Thirdly what is the minimum punnishment you would advise if the victim of adultry is one of your siblings?
Fourthly India if india is giving subsidy, its good for povert ridden jobless Muslims, its appreaciated.

Last but not least, please dont just post here to troll around.

I wasn't making fun of religious rules! I was just correcting someone about freedom?! And minimum punishment I would suggest is the minimum punishment decided by 'Indian penal code' or 'British penal code'?!

And are you kidding me?? Sharia is not only applicable in saudi. Look at the map. Maybe in saudi its' really strict.
Sharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jayron]

Prosperity of the muslims also depends on their status when they converted. Most of the muslims in my state Tamil Nadu are traders or businessmen and are generally more prosperous than the rest. While a lot of those in Bihar, Bengal and UP were poor peasants who converted to make their life easier during the muslim rule. So they historically tend to be poor.

 

[Veeru]

do Indian Muslims really know their home condition's reality? its a shame that in so called democratic society people like Arun Dhati Roy and Dr Bnaik Sen are victimized! a society in which dalits and particularly Muslim community is tortured and forced to live like animals..

..( Summarised Sachar Report on Status of Indian Muslims)

Justice Rajinder Sachir presided a seven member committee to make a report on Muslims of India. This report was submitted to PM Manmohan Sing on November 30, 2006. This report says that in the areas of Muslim population, there is a severe lack of government related facilities which include food, transport, roads, infrastructure, electricity, hospital, bank etc. Apart of it the statistics included in the report are scaring.

1. 39% of Muslims spend their lives at the lowest level of poverty
2. In whole the country only 4% of Muslims are on government jobs
3. Out of the 4% government employees 98.7% are on ordinary jobs
4. Literacy rate among Muslims of India is 35%
5. 68% of Muslim childern get to get admission in schools where in 'shoodars' this count is 80%
6. In rural areas 95% of Muslims are on a lowest level of poverty
7. Only 2% of Muslims have their own tractors
8. 1% of Muslims in India have their own water hand-pumps
9. 40% rural Muslims of India never see the school
10. No property deals buys or sells any flat or home to Muslims in Hindu populated areas (Javed Akhtar & Shahrukh Khan are also a victim of this, Not included in report).
11. The level of trust of Government of India over Muslims is that only 2% of them are employed in India's biggest agency CBI
12. In RAW and BSF there is not a single Muslim employed
13. In all security forces included police only 3% are Muslims

Much said for noww, for people who understand..

What????????Not a single muslim

Truck load of bull , myth busted.

See the list of "Honours & Awards" from BSF's official website and you will die of shock that your myth is busted and there are In fact many Muslims under the heading of "Our Heroes"

Late Mohd Firdous Khan

Mustaq Ahmed

Mohd Asharf Mir

Late Altaf Hussain

Mohd Aslam Chichi

Sikander Khan

Late Abdul Hameed

Tasbeer Hussain

Abdul Hameed

Mohd Iashq

G H Khan

Faroq Ah Mir

Bashir Ahmed

Afjal Khan

Md Israil

Rafique Azaz Khan

G H Khan

Altaf Hussain

Mohd Israil

Rafeeque Aziz Khan

Link of official website of BSF for proof

http://sgr.bsf.gov.in/awards/index.htm

As i always says don't blindlky go by what ur text books or zaid hamid says instead apply some common scene or atlest use Google.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Well most of the educated indian muslims i have met dont really agree with the ideology of pakistan.That is their choice,but i do see they envy pakistani muslims and dont let go of any oppurtunity to disgrace them.Well as i see their loyalty is questioned in india,pakistan is a yardstick of their patrotism.I really dont understand what they want.If they support pakistan then they are saying that they disagree with their elders decision of staying over in india rather then moving to pakistan.Some geniuley wanted to move to pakistan but could not due to resources.one indian muslim doctor i met in britian said that most indian mulisms who where rich moved over to pakistan and the poor stayed back as they could not afford to go to pakistan,earlier he said that he disagreed with the ideology of Quaid e azam and partition was a mistake.Im confused seriously.
YouTube - Narendra Modi Exposed on Gujarat riots 1

YouTube - Narendra Modi Exposed on Gujarat riots 2

what the doctor said about rich moving and poor staying his observation and other one is his personal opinion.

i think creation of pakistan is natural because for a muslim everything is centred around his religion.look around you will find turkey is the only country where muslims are majority and they don't have islamic involvement in state affairs.

 

[MM_Haider]

I wasn't making fun of religious rules! I was just correcting someone about freedom?! And minimum punishment I would suggest is the minimum punishment decided by 'Indian penal code' or 'British penal code'?!

And are you kidding me?? Sharia is not only applicable in saudi. Look at the map. Maybe in saudi its' really strict.
Sharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While referring to sharia law i was refering to punishments in place in countries mentioned thereabove. And you, just to troll, gave a link of wikipedia.
About minimum punishment, think again! You might not be talking your heart out. And, BTW could you please let me know what is the minimum punnishment by Indian penal court for the said crime?

 

[MM_Haider]

What????????Not a single muslim

Truck load of bull , myth busted.

See the list of "Honours & Awards" from BSF's official website and you will die of shock that your myth is busted and there are In fact many Muslims under the heading of "Our Heroes"

Late Mohd Firdous Khan

Mustaq Ahmed

Mohd Asharf Mir

Late Altaf Hussain

Mohd Aslam Chichi

Sikander Khan

Late Abdul Hameed

Tasbeer Hussain

Abdul Hameed

Mohd Iashq

G H Khan

Faroq Ah Mir

Bashir Ahmed

Afjal Khan

Md Israil

Rafique Azaz Khan

G H Khan

Altaf Hussain

Mohd Israil

Rafeeque Aziz Khan

Link of official website of BSF for proof

--::Border Security Force ::--

As i always says don't blindlky go by what ur text books or zaid hamid says instead apply some common scene or atlest use Google.

Mr Google guy, I don't trust your BSF "official" website. Remember, during Kargil war India announced the greatest military award to shaheeds who were alive, hence, my point. Don't trust me, just Google it.

 

[fallstuff]

The thread/article is a lame attempt to whitewash the real concerns.
Its disgusting to see such an article spreading a propaganda that it is better to be a Muslim living in India. There are enough facts in the Sachar report to start dozens of thread.

Excerpts from the Sachar Report pg 32-35,

http://minorityaffairs.gov.in/newsite/sachar/sachar_comm.pdf

2 Identity Related Concerns


Apparently, the social, cultural and public interactive spaces in India can be very daunting for the Indian Muslims. The general sense of unease among Muslims can be seen on a number of fronts — in the relationships that exist between the Muslims and other Socio- Religious Communities (SRCs), as well as, in the variations in understanding and interpreting them. One aspect of this understanding relates to patriotism. They carry a double burden of being labeled as “anti-national” and as being “appeased” at the same time.

While Muslims need to prove on a daily basis that they are not “anti-national” and “terrorists”, it is not recognized that the alleged “appeasement” has not resulted in the desired level of socio-economic development of the Community. In general, Muslims complained that they are constantly looked upon with a great degree of suspicion not only by certain sections of society but also by public institutions and governance structures. This has a depressing effect on their psyche. Many also felt that the media tends to perpetuate this stereotypical image of the Muslims.

2.1 Identity — Visibility in Public Spaces

One of the major issues around the question of identity for Indian Muslims is about being identified as ‘a Muslim’ in public spaces. Being identified as a Muslim is considered to be problematic for many. Markers of Muslim Identity — the burqa, the purdah, the beard and the topi — while adding to the distinctiveness of Indian Muslims have been a cause of concern for them in the public realm. These markers have very often been a target for ridiculing the community as well as of looking upon them with suspicion. Muslim men donning a beard and a topi are often picked up for interrogation from public spaces like parks, railway stations and markets. Some women who interacted with the Committee informed how in the corporate offices hijab wearing Muslim women were finding it increasingly difficult to find jobs. Muslim women in burqa complain of impolite treatment in the market, in hospitals, in schools, in accessing public facilities such as public transport and so on.


2.2 Identity — Housing and Education



Muslim identity affects everyday living in a variety of ways that ranges from being unable to rent/buy a house to accessing good schools for their children. Buying or renting property in localities of one’s choice is becoming increasingly difficult for Muslims. Apart from the reluctance of owners to rent/sell property to Muslims, several housing societies in “non-Muslim” localities ‘dissuade’ Muslims from locating there. Muslim identity also comes in the way of admitting their children to good educational institutions.

(Muslim parents often face overt discrimination from school authorities when trying to get admission or availing of scholarship schemes for their children. Small acts such as lack of civility in behavior, rude questioning, and an atmosphere which treats them and their children as 'second class' citizens - all these combine to create a powerful deterrent, distancing the Muslim community from the school system. Parents
are less likely to send girls (than boys) into such a hostile environment.)

This has given rise to a number of Muslim denominational schools, which according to some, are the only source of good education for Muslims today. A large majority of Muslims would apparently prefer to send their children to ‘regular mainstream’ schools. It was argued that while setting up of denominational institutions is a right of minorities under the Constitution, it was not meant to become their only option.


2.3 Identity and Gender


Many suggested that gender issues in the Community are also given a Muslim slant. To the exclusion of all other aspects of a Muslim woman’s life (income, jobs, education, security and even caloric intake), the rules of marriage, right to divorce and maintenance have become the benchmarks of a gender-just existence. The obsessive focus on select cases of Muslim women passionately discussed in the media results in identifying the Muslim religion as the sole locus of genderinjustice in the Community. Consequently, the civil society and the State locate Muslim women’s deprivation not in terms of the ‘objective’ reality of societal.





3. Security Related Concerns


Lack of a sense of security and a discriminatory attitude towards Muslims is felt widely. However, there is considerable variation in the gravity, intensity and magnitude of such a feeling across various states. Communal tension or any untoward incident in any part of the country is enough to make Muslims fear for their safety and security. The lackadaisical attitude of the government and the political mileage sought whenever communal riots occur has been very painful for the Community. The governmental inaction in bringing to book the perpetrators of communal violence has been a sore point. On the other hand, the police, along with the media, overplay the involvement of Muslims in violent activities and underplay the involvement of other groups or organizations. There is an underlying feeling of injustice in the context of compensation to riot victims. It was also suggested that the amount of compensation fixed by the government post riots has been discriminatory against the Muslims. Besides, there is also delay in giving compensation to the victims, especially when they happen to be Muslims.

3.1 Attitude of the Police and Law Enforcing Agencies


Concern was expressed over police highhandedness in dealing with Muslims. Muslims live with an inferiority complex as “every bearded man is considered an ISI agent”; “whenever any incident occurs Muslim boys are picked up by the police” and fake encounters are common. In fact, people argued that police presence in Muslim
localities is more common than the presence of schools, industry, public hospitals and banks. Security personnel enter Muslim houses on the slightest pretext. The plight of Muslims living in border areas is even worse as they are treated as ‘foreigners’ and are subjected to harassment by the police and administration. Violent communal conflicts, especially like some recent ones in a state, in which there is large-scale targeted sexual violence against Muslim women has a spread affect even in regions of the country not directly affected by the violence. There is immense fear, a feeling of vulnerability, and consequently a visible impact on mobility and education, especially of girls. The lack of adequate Muslim presence in
the police force accentuates this problem in almost all Indian states as it heightens the perceived sense of insecurity, especially in a communally sensitive situation.


Link:

http://minorityaffairs.gov.in/newsite/sachar/sachar_comm.pdf

 

[true_indian]

do Indian Muslims really know their home condition's reality? its a shame that in so called democratic society people like Arun Dhati Roy and Dr Bnaik Sen are victimized! a society in which dalits and particularly Muslim community is tortured and forced to live like animals..

..( Summarised Sachar Report on Status of Indian Muslims)

Justice Rajinder Sachir presided a seven member committee to make a report on Muslims of India. This report was submitted to PM Manmohan Sing on November 30, 2006. This report says that in the areas of Muslim population, there is a severe lack of government related facilities which include food, transport, roads, infrastructure, electricity, hospital, bank etc. Apart of it the statistics included in the report are scaring.

1. 39% of Muslims spend their lives at the lowest level of poverty
2. In whole the country only 4% of Muslims are on government jobs
3. Out of the 4% government employees 98.7% are on ordinary jobs
4. Literacy rate among Muslims of India is 35%
5. 68% of Muslim childern get to get admission in schools where in 'shoodars' this count is 80%
6. In rural areas 95% of Muslims are on a lowest level of poverty
7. Only 2% of Muslims have their own tractors
8. 1% of Muslims in India have their own water hand-pumps
9. 40% rural Muslims of India never see the school
10. No property deals buys or sells any flat or home to Muslims in Hindu populated areas (Javed Akhtar & Shahrukh Khan are also a victim of this, Not included in report).
11. The level of trust of Government of India over Muslims is that only 2% of them are employed in India's biggest agency CBI
12. In RAW and BSF there is not a single Muslim employed
13. In all security forces included police only 3% are Muslims

Much said for noww, for people who understand..

Arundhati roy is victimized? By who? It's the people who are opposing her. She was opposed for being unpatriotic but not because she is a minority.

All the facts you mentioned, you said are because of lack of trust, I somewhat agree but why do we lack trust on our Muslims its because of Pakistan and its support for extremists in our country. Remember 'Dawood Ibrahim' and what he did to this country. Although they are only fringe elements they had a overbearing mark on our minds.

Also, its reciprocated by our Muslims too. In the past they never trusted the system and always thought there would be discrimination against them. They were never proactive in mingling with other sections of the society. Also the education, they used to prefer going to madrasas than getting a technical education. Its changing now thanks to the development in our country.

My only request would be for Pakistan to leave our Muslims alone and not involve them in your idealogical war. Then they'll surely develop as India develops.

 

[fallstuff]

I always wondered why there are threads every now and then saying Muslims in India are better than anywhere else. It reminds me of Baghdad Bob, the Iraqi Info Minister commenting about U.S troops in Baghdad.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

@ fullstuff
although you might not be looking for answers here..
major problem with muslims is that they are reluctant to education,

other things like police questioning of muslims with beard , public suspicion etc are natural in the light of growing islamic ideological terrorist activities.

 

[fallstuff]

@ fullstuff
although you might not be looking for answers here..
major problem with muslims is that they are reluctant to education,

other things like police questioning of muslims with beard , public suspicion etc are natural in the light of growing islamic ideological terrorist activities.

Let me refer you to this

Muslim parents often face overt discrimination from school authorities when trying to get admission or availing of scholarship schemes for their children. Small acts such as lack of civility in behavior, rude questioning, and an atmosphere which treats them and their children as 'second class' citizens - all these combine to create a powerful deterrent, distancing the Muslim community from the school system. Parents are less likely to send girls (than boys) into such a hostile environment.

http://minorityaffairs.gov.in/newsite/sachar/sachar_comm.pdf

Parents would be concerned that something sad may happen to their
daughters in absence of deterrence factors such as justice.

Police picking up people with beard on random is not natural, its simply wrong and certainly not objective.

Threads like this tend to perpetuate a myth that Muslims are better of in India than anywhere else. SRK and Dr.A.K seems to be the poster boys used by the propagandists.

 

[RazPaK]

Apparently everything is better in India. Concieted or Insecure? I can never really tell with Indians.



I'd also like to add I've met some Indians that are very humble and down to earth. Those people are well respected by everyone including myself.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Let me refer you to this



Parents would be concerned that something sad may happen to their
daughters in absence of deterrence factors such as justice.

Police picking up people with beard on random is not natural, its simply wrong and certainly not objective.

Threads like this tend to perpetuate a myth that Muslims are better of in India than anywhere else. SRK and Dr.A.K seems to be the poster boys used by the propagandists.

as i said earlier this kind of micro level discrimination might be happening to muslims but it is not necessary that it's all because of religion..it can be because of cast system too..many muslims in india are lower class hindu converts(according to class system ), other poor people might be facing the same..no one bothered to study how a hindu lives in the country and what his conditions are..wonder why ? because they don't see , think , or act(vote ) through the lense of religion.

secondly police picking up muslims with beard..i say it's natural to suspect them in the light of islamic ideological terrorism.i don't think police will come and arrest every one of them..there will be other factors which add to suspicion.if members of a certain group creates problem then whole group will be under suspicion.if tomorrow people from my religion/place/ country creates contentious problem outsiders will see me with suspicion only.