Italy acts...orders mosques as public space and bans preaching in arabic

[Abingdonboy]

the feeling is there.. never gone away... may be you should talk to them.. dig a bit deeper? How good is your hindi/punjabi? how much can you relate to them?

My Punjabi is fine, I know plenty of them from the Gurdwara and through family and extended family. I've never heard any of them say anything along the lines of what you are saying.

The only Sikhs I have heard talk such cr@p are British born and no one takes them seriously.

+ @livingdead most of them do have a lot of issues with the Punjab govt though and most tell plenty of stories about the Badals. Disgusts me how Punjab is run by the state govt, it is going to the dogs.

 

[livingdead]

My Punjabi is fine, I know plenty of them from the Gurdwara and through family and extended family. I've never heard any of them say anything along the lines of what you are saying.

The only Sikhs I have heard talk such cr@p are British born and no one takes them seriously.

+ @livingdead most of them do have a lot of issues with the Punjab govt though and most tell plenty of stories about the Badals. Disgusts me how Punjab is run by the state govt, it is going to the dogs.

well.. if you say so... you interact with them more than me... so you might be right.

 

[CriticalThought]

The last refuge of the ultimate victim mentality. There is no such thing as "Islamophobia", Islam isn't a race, it is an ideology.

And besides, a "phobia" is an irrational fear of something, Europe has PLENTY of reasons to have genuine concerns about Islam.

The Nazis had plenty of 'rational' reasons to kill Jews.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The Nazis had plenty of 'rational' reasons to kill Jews.

What's your point? Are Muslims being rounded up and put into concentration camps?

 

[CriticalThought]

Your comments are just insanity, and I've told you about this before. Pakistan's Christians are genetically and culturally identical to their Muslim kin. I'd rather Pakistan Jettison into orbit, on the back of Missiles, the terrorist Mullahs who instruct young men to blow themselves to pieces in shopping malls. Pakistan's Christians have punched well above their weight in the armed forces, especially the PAF, and continue to be an asset. Here's a hint, they don't kill and murder Pakistanis in the hundreds, unlike so called "Muslims".

And Muslims in Italy have added no value? This isn't about what Pakistani Christians have done, this about giving Christians in general a taste of their own medicine. Which, to be honest, goes against Islamic teachings and it stands as a shining example of Islamic fairness and justice that Christians in Pakistan aren't marginalized because of what happens elsewhere. Personally, when I said in my previous post 'time to give these Christians a taste of their own medicine' it was meant to be theoretical. I do not condone a tit for tat approach that goes against the teachings of our religion.

What's your point? Are Muslims being rounded up and put into concentration camps?

The Nazi anti-Semitism didn't reach the Nadir of concentration camps in one night. We are speaking out against an inhuman train of thought that has all the hallmarks of hate which Nazis are infamous for.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The Nazi anti-Semitism didn't reach the Nadir of concentration camps in one night. We are speaking out against an inhuman train of thought that has all the hallmarks of hate which Nazis are infamous for.

You are entirely ignoring the genesis for this anti-Muslim sentiment and pretending as though it is unprovoked. Muslims have been flooding into Europe for decades (if not centuaries) and on the whole were welcomed and treated well, it is only now that Europe has been on the receiving end of countless crimes and attrocities from this one community that this pushback has begun.

After 9/11 there wasn't this sentiment expressed but now, after a very harmful few years Europeans are saying "enough".

There is no point in pretending this is unilateral.

 

[CriticalThought]

You are entirely ignoring the genesis for this anti-Muslim sentiment and pretending as though it is unprovoked. Muslims have been flooding into Europe for decades (if not centuaries) and on the whole were welcomed and treated well, it is only now that Europe has been on the receiving end of countless crimes and attrocities from this one community that this pushback has begun.

After 9/11 there wasn't this sentiment expressed but now, after a very harmful few years Europeans are saying "enough".

There is no point in pretending this is unilateral.

And there is no point in pretending that 911 wasn't the result of Western tyranny against Muslims.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well don't see what the problem is with registering the "Imams" and asking them to please use Italian for preaching so most italians would benefit from teachings in Italian

Actually there is more % chance to more Italians becoming Muslims due to teaching in Italian great work by Italian politicians

The world is muslim's mosque and prayer can be done anywhere on clean surface

(Image from Palestine)

 

[Mugwop]

Just from the top of my head:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lee_Rigby
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Brussels_bombings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porte_de_Vincennes_siege
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Munich_shooting



Sadly, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Not very Islamic if you'd ask me btw have you heard about nigerian gangsters in italy? No concerns about them

What's your point? Are Muslims being rounded up and put into concentration camps?

Some of them are in cuba and iraq

 

[CriticalThought]

Well don't see what the problem is with registering the "Imams" and asking them to please use Italian for preaching so most italians would benefit from teachings in Italian

Actually there is more % chance to more Italians becoming Muslims due to teaching in Italian great work by Italian politicians

The world is muslim's mosque and prayer can be done anywhere on clean surface

(Image from Palestine)

It depends how you interpret the wordings. If it extends to the Khutba for Friday prayers and the words you say within Namaz itself, then both of these will be invalid until and unless Arabic is used. If indeed the new law demands this level of compliance, then Islamic scholars have to be contacted to decide if it is permissible for Muslims to remain in Italy.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The prayer has to be in arabic as Quranic verses are in Arabic, however Sermon (Khutba can be in any language as it is a mere instruction to people in attendence and a general prayer (again arabic if Surah from Quran)

For sermon / Khutba makes sense that you use local language in your friday gathering for reminding people to focus on their faith etc do chartity , help other etc

If more Italians male and female will join the faith sure we will have Khutba in Italian lovely language

The purpose of Khutba is to raise awareness in people on common problems in society and focus to charity , helping others , focus on your connection to Allah and may be how folks should be good muslims. If the local society has some social issues raise awareness in the "Khutba/Sermon" to raise awareness so someone in community would step up to solve the issue afterwords


Example:
If 99% people are speaking lets say Spanish , and you are giving sermon in Japanese , then obviously the goal of the Kutba (sermon) etc would not be met

 

[CriticalThought]

The prayer has to be in arabic as Quranic verses are in Arabic, however Sermon (Khutba can be in any language as it is a mere instruction to people in attendence and a general prayer (again arabic if Surah from Quran)

For sermon / Khutba makes sense that you use local language in your friday gathering for reminding people to focus on their faith etc

You can have a speech in any language, but the religious requirement of Khutba is only fulfilled through Arabic. Plz contact religious scholars if you have any doubts.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

May be if the Scholar was Wahabi

Local population needs their weekly guidance in their own language

Well I do understand arabic (conversational) so during Kutba's given in many arabic mosque the statements given by the Imam are generally speaking about
day to day things muslims should do to be better followers of faith. Just as if you are being instructed by your dad or mom when you were kids. However this process is done at community level on weekly basis

I did realized the "lack of understanding my many of my peers" on these Arabic Khutbas , as many of my collegues later admited they did not understood what was being stated in the Friday Khutba, when I heard their statement I was a bit "Shocked" but later realized , I was just lucky to pick up the language and build up vocabolary over time others just understand 2-4 words or 10

The benefit from the Khutba is not just sit there are shake your head like bobble head , the idea behind is to learn about your faith and examples from past and hear why as muslism you need to focus on your religion and do "GOOD", so if person in attendence can't understand a word of the language then the gains from the Khutba are lost

*The Prayer itself uses Quranic verses which of course are in Arabic and most Muslims memorize these so these are not changable (Translations are available in books)

With Khutba's language being not the language of Listner , the benefits of spirituality is lost the "advice" the call "to do good" to help others etc does not transfers to listener as they can't understand the language in Khutbas if strictly done in Arabic (generally not understood by many folks in non Arabic countries )

So seems like good initiative by Italy more Italians will benefit from Italian Khutbas / Sermon

 

[Post Colonnial]

I have few indians workers who went to Italy/spain/Portugal for papers (ALL OF THEM ARE SIKHS), and lots of them entered europe as syrian refugees it's an open secret

sure sure, of all the people of India, you picked Sikhs to lie about

It's not racism it's islamophobia. Do you require Jews to preach in Italian? Do you require Hindus to become 100% Italian? The fact of the matter is that Europe's problems are an instance of chickens coming home to roost. The barbarism perpetrated by the imperialists in Muslim lands followed by appointing corrupt stooges which led to oppressive regimes, the continued meddling on internal affairs, and the resulting humanitarian crisis is now knocking at your door step. I agree that Italy isn't directly involved in this, but you are one of those benefiting from the heinous harvests. Don't expect to batten down the hatches and weather the storm. You have to address the root cause. The solution is to make it attractive for people to stay in their own countries. For that you need to put effort in dealing with the mess the West has created.

it IS islamophobia but for a reason don't you think?

 

[PWFI]

Anecdotal evidence, prove it or provide a verifiable source.

Sikhs passing off as Syrians, now I've heard it all.

I have first hand info, almost all my workers are sikhs, and few of them went to Italy for this very purpose

sure sure, of all the people of India, you picked Sikhs to lie about

You are an Indian not me, thank God