Italian firms keen on missile defence system deal with Pakistan

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

You are trying to obtain a fighter that is facing a bleak future? Are you REALLY thinking it through? We buy old F16's BECAUSE they are still used by WIDELY and IN PRODUCTION with a GREAT SUPPORT STRUCTURE.

Does EF2000 have that? NO

I don't think anyone is letting go of Typhoon Tranche 2s, it's the Tranche 1 that's being cast-off. Unfortunately, while the Tranche 1 is a superb air superiority platform, there isn't much else to do with it. There are baseline strike capabilities, e.g. laser-guided bombs, but I don't think the Tranche 1s were made compatible for stand-off range weapons such as cruise missiles and glide bombs. IIRC the RAF said upgrading the Tranche 1s to T2 was not feasible, so the T1s are being re-deployed as interceptors.

 

[Zarvan]

You are trying to obtain a fighter that is facing a bleak future? Are you REALLY thinking it through? We buy old F16's BECAUSE they are still used by WIDELY and IN PRODUCTION with a GREAT SUPPORT STRUCTURE.

Does EF2000 have that? NO

It doesn't have a bleak future it has many customers and about to get more

 

[Path-Finder]

It doesn't have a bleak future it has many customers and about to get more

Hazrat the consortium of nations are now reducing the fighter to putting them into storage!! Think about that? They are doing it because its not a priority which is F35 now.

I don't think anyone is letting go of Typhoon Tranche 2s, it's the Tranche 1 that's being cast-off. Unfortunately, while the Tranche 1 is a superb air superiority platform, there isn't much else to do with it. There are baseline strike capabilities, e.g. laser-guided bombs, but I don't think the Tranche 1s were made compatible for stand-off range weapons such as cruise missiles and glide bombs. IIRC the RAF said upgrading the Tranche 1s to T2 was not feasible, so the T1s are being re-deployed as interceptors.

EF is a great Fighter but for Pakistan the only thing it could offer is the EJ200 engine but even that is not on the list for PAF unless I am mistaken. As you said Tranche 2 is what would be desirable but not tranche 1.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Hazrat the consortium of nations are now reducing the fighter to putting them into storage!! Think about that? They are doing it because its not a priority which is F35 now.


EF is a great Fighter but for Pakistan the only thing it could offer is the EJ200 engine but even that is not on the list for PAF unless I am mistaken. As you said Tranche 2 is what would be desirable but not tranche 1.

Honestly, haven't heard of EJ200 being an option for the PAF. To be frank, besides the possibility of new F-16s, it's JF-17s all the way until the next-gen fighter (NGF).

 

[Tank131]

With respect to a SAM deal, it first needs to be determined what the offer is for. If it is for Navy, the which ship would it arm and what potential missiles are available?

If PN is looking at a heavy corvette /light frigate like MILGEM or its variants (LF-2400 or I-class) then the likelihood is for CAMM or Aster 15 (personally I would prefer CAMM over Aster as you can fit 4 CAMM in the same spce you can fit 1 Aster, and you dont sacrifice too much in performance). If is for area level defense, Aster 30 makrs the most sense and could be acquired for med-long ramge air defense. That being said, while it is a great system, its range of 120km kind of puts it in no-mans-land with respect tp both medium and long range missiles. Pakistan already operates HQ16 and could buy HQ-9 (chinese development of S-300 with 200km range.

Either way it will be interesting to see what comes from this.

 

[war&peace]

Aster 30 1NT, will be a great option for Pakistan Navy for it fleet but for terrestrial defence Pakistan must acquire HQ-9 or S-400

 

[Basel]

Hello bro how are you? I haven't conversed with you in quite a while.
Yes, it would be incredibly important. I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of upgrades for such a system as time goes on. Pakistan would benefit greatly. Anyway let us see.

http://www.mbda-systems.com/product/aster-30-sampt/

I m fine bro, how are you? I have not seen you discussing things here like before, where were you?

It will be better to have combo of western and eastern tech for air defence, if HQ-9 (200km range) misses then Aster-30 (120km range) take it out.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Fancy big brand items (e.g. Typhoon, Aster 30, etc) aside, we should look at the smaller stuff too.

Consider the Elettronica EDGE Escort Jamming Pod. The EDGE is an electronic warfare (EW) jamming pod built on active phased-array transceivers, it has digital radio frequency memory (DRFM) jamming capabilities. Imagine fitting a bunch of these onto the JF-17B and using it as a Growler-like platform.

EDGE is the new escort jammer developed by Elettronica. In an autonomous pod configuration, it’s designed to increase the survivability and success of the entire attacking force and offers both unique performance and installation capabilities.‎

Edge’s various functions are designed to suppress enemy air defences to boost survivability for the entire strike force by creating a safe corridor for multiple attacking aircraft. Its ELINT features enhance both situational awareness and intelligence collection.

The unit is fully autonomous and no additional power source is necessary for aircraft using internal RAT and cooling system capability. The system is easily installed and integrated and does not effect overall aircraft integrity.

The ELINT Edge capabilities include high sensitivity for very long-range detection, extended frequency bandwidth and accurate directional of arrival measurement for an improved SA.

The ECM Edge capabilities include high-transmitted power (ERP), extended frequency bandwidth over any radar threats, full Azimuth and Elevation Spatial Coverage and multi-threat jamming. The system includes networking capability to increase the values of Escort Jamming capability as well as a proprietary High Value algorithm.

The Edge escort jammer is designed for exportability, has no technology export limitations and is ITAR free. Its high level of modularity with a scalable architecture to support customer requirements and needs makes it an ideal subject for industrial cooperation, collaboration and technology transfer.

http://www.idexuae.ae/exhibitor-press-releases/elettronica-at-idex-2017

EDGE is the most current Escort Jamming Pod solution by Elettronica. It is a fully integrated system, intercepting and automatically processessing radar signals, managing the power transmitters to effectively jam several radar threats with high Effective Radiated Power (ERP).

The major task of the Escort Jammer is to perform a comprehensive advanced warning and countermeasures cycle against any hostile threats, which engage the attacking forces and adjacent flight formation and to enhance mission success.

To meet such demanding requirements, EDGE is designed to provide both individual and mutual protection to combat aircrafts. System design ensures prompt interception and automatic processing of the radar environment, as well as the implementation of an adaptive power management function to ensure optimized jamming response to the multi-threat environment.

The EJ equipment’s high level performance stems from its highly advanced system design based on state of the art technology (DRFM, Digital Receiver, solid-state RX/TX modules) and phased-array antennas, featuring electronic beam steering.

http://www.elt-roma.com/product/edge

 

[Ultima Thule]

No I one will come and I am amused to see your kind of laughs because your kind is not found when I am proven right.

When? in 2050

 

[Blue Marlin]

That's my understanding based on the Indian S-400 contract. It's $5.8b for 5 systems (link).

how does an italian radar relate to the s400?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

how does an italian radar relate to the s400?

Not sure, where did I refer to an Italian radar in relation to the S-400? IIRC I posted the range of the Kronos Grand in response to a question about comparing the Aster 30 and S-400's respective radar systems. I thought the Italian radar option for the Aster 30 would be the Kronos Grand.

 

[Tank131]

IMHO, for terrestrial defense the Aster 30 makes little sense for Pakistan. The HQ9 is available and it has more range and is likely to be the cheaper of the two systems. It has significant ABM capabilities as well. There are versions in development that will give it THAAD like capabilities. It makes the most sense for Pakistan's terrestrial defense.

Aster 30 would make sense for naval vessels, but you sacrifice numbers for range. Thatis reasonable on a 5-6000t destroyer with 48 VLS cells, but on a 2400t corvette /light frigate, the numbers are needed. A 16 cell A50 vls would only hold 16 Aster 30. But it could hold 64 CAMM (if CAMM-ER Is quad-packable that would be likely the best choice). A mix of the 2 may be beneficial (8 Aster 30 an 32 CAMM) but would likely be cost prohibitive.

 

[Penguin]

yeah i know but just saying that S-400 performance wise is better than Aster 30 ... why on earth a SAM will fight a SAM ? haha

It just has a longer range. Which doesn't automatically a better missile system make.

thats a landbased radar?
dont you mean this http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/kronos-grand-naval-1

As it says "The KRONOS GRAND is a highly compact and mobile multifunctional System, designed for Land Based Tactical operations requiring outstanding Air & Coastal Surveillance and Defense against new generation of conventional and asymmetric threats."

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

IMHO, for terrestrial defense the Aster 30 makes little sense for Pakistan. The HQ9 is available and it has more range and is likely to be the cheaper of the two systems. It has significant ABM capabilities as well. There are versions in development that will give it THAAD like capabilities. It makes the most sense for Pakistan's terrestrial defense.

Aster 30 would make sense for naval vessels, but you sacrifice numbers for range. Thatis reasonable on a 5-6000t destroyer with 48 VLS cells, but on a 2400t corvette /light frigate, the numbers are needed. A 16 cell A50 vls would only hold 16 Aster 30. But it could hold 64 CAMM (if CAMM-ER Is quad-packable that would be likely the best choice). A mix of the 2 may be beneficial (8 Aster 30 an 32 CAMM) but would likely be cost prohibitive.

Bear in mind the sensor and weapons package for Qatar's 4 Fincantieri corvettes and 3 OPVs cost like 2.2 bn euros. This includes radars and Aster 30 SAMs for the corvettes. This route would be out of the PN's price range. If AAW is being pursued, I think the MBDA CAMM would be the ceiling. IMO the PN would want to aim for a $200m-ish per ship price point at this stage, and I think a combo like the Smart-S Mk2 or Giraffe AMB with Umkhonto EIR is way likelier.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Aek ship ati hai fermaish ka jumma bazzar lag jata hai

[One Ship has arrived , and every one has a request (something) like in Friday Bazar]