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Israeli Attack on Iran: Easier Said Than Done

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It would depend if the Arab states let Israel fly through their airspace isn't like Iraq where one target is hit, I still don't see how israel can hit all the Sites even in the Mountains and the Hidden ones underground even if it had it's entire air force it would need the USA help.
 
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Iran has no easy solution


It is almost banal to observe that the Iranian nuclear challenge is a hard policy problem. Back in the day, even during some dark periods on Iraq, Bush insiders tended to view the Iranian nuclear file as the more vexing problem. I remember vividly President Bush authorizing a fresh zero-based look at our Iranian policy in late 2005 even while the White House's public posture was focused on the Iraq problem. Bush's term ended with a sense of greater progress on Iraq than on Iran. And, measured differently, I suspect Obama's national security team would likewise believe they have accomplished a greater proportion of their objectives regarding Iraq than Iran. It is just that thorny a problem.

Which is why I do not fully understand the arguments of the vocal and energetic anti-war faction. Perhaps I am reading the critics the wrong way, but it seems like they make the Iranian challenge an easier policy problem than it really is by arguing that all of the relevant considerations point in the the same direction. Thus, the use of force is a bad option, they say, because the costs of attacking Iran are high:

An airstrike would not destroy the targets.
Even if we could destroy the targets, we don't know where they all are.
Even if we did destroy all the targets, the Iranians would rapidly rebuild.
Attacking Iran would convince Iran to develop nuclear weapons.
After we attacked Iran, they would retaliate with unacceptable damage to our interests
Iran is never going to abandon the quest for nuclear capability anyway.
An airstrike would be pointless because Iran hasn't decided to weaponize and only has an enrichment program at the present time.
So far, these are all logically plausible, reinforcing, and perhaps even co-related, points. Experts can debate them, but where I have a problem is the next phase of the argument, where they argue that the costs of not attacking Iran are low:

We needn't worry about Iranian nuclear weapons because it will be easy to contain Iran.
We won't need to sacrifice our interests to manage relations with a nuclear Iran.
We will be better off sacrificing our previously stated interests to manage relations with a nuclear Iran.
A nuclear Iran will not meaningfully alter proliferation incentives in the region.
Even if a few (several) states develop nuclear weapons in response to the Iranian nuclear arsenal it will not substantially complicate crisis dynamics in the region.
Again, it is logically possible for (almost) all of these to also be true at the same time. But it is not as plausible, which may be why it is rarely people with actual responsibility for policy making arguments like this. In the real world familiar to policymakers, the choices often involve unpalatable lose-lose options, especially on issues like the Iran nuclear case that have commanded decades of attention. The further one moves away from actual responsibility for the consequences of decisions, I suppose the easier it is to make the call. (For a persuasive take on a related policymaking conundrum -- the interconnectedness of policy choices -- see Frank Gavin and Jim Steinberg's simultaneous defense of "muddling through" and appeal for more analytical rigor here.)

Put another way, why do people who say military action to destroy the Iranian nuclear program is too hard also insist that it will be easy to contain Iran? Why can't they acknowledge that it would be quite a daunting challenge to contain Iran? This would not preclude them from making the tough call in favor of containment over preventive strikes, though it might undermine the dogmatism of the argument.

Political psychologists would point to that as the reason: The tendency in hard choices for individuals to bolster, seeking and seeing ever more reinforcing arguments for the choice they have adopted. It is something like a confirmation bias and it is very hard to resist. And I do not think it is a problem only affecting one side in the debate. It is not too hard to find examples of advocates of a military option doing much the same thing (air strikes will be easy; Iranian retaliation will be manageable; containing Iran will be impossible; etc.).

The analysts I find most compelling, especially when dealing with hard problems that have bedeviled the policy community for a long time, are those who concede that not all of the logic and evidence stacks up on their side of the argument. The Iran debate needs more analysts like that.

In some cases, the same critics who pride themselves in their capacity to spot such cognitive pathologies when policymakers commit them seem to be the ones the most afflicted now. Perhaps this a function of the Iraq experience. Perhaps this what the Iraq syndrome looks like.
 
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I remember that everyone was getting panicked over North Korea acquiring nuclear weapons. "They will give it to terrorists" etc.

But what eventually happened? Nothing.

Once a nation gets nuclear weapons, they have helped to guarantee their security against outside forces. The "donating a nuke to terrorists scenario" doesn't make any sense, because it achieves the exact opposite, by making everything more dangerous for that country.
 
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^^^ a key point that keeps coming up is even if the Sites are hit the iranians can rebuild them what will they do hit them again ?
 
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I just don;t understand why are you so against Iran? Is the open declaration that calls for the destruction of Israel? I know the trheat exists but when you look at it from the Sunni/Shia context, the Sunni's represents a bigger threat to humanity, I think.
We are against Iran??

During Iran-Iraq war, Arab world gave 80 billion dollars to Iraq in order to kill more Iranians. On the other hand Israel provided vital help to Iran, selling TOW ATGMs, Hawk SAMs, spare parts for tanks and airplanes.

And what happened in return? Once the war ended Iran started massive suppport of Arab terrorirsts groups against Israel. Those groups killed many many hundreds of innocent Israelis. Iran conducts "Jerusalem day" annually, when milons people go to streets and chant "death to Israel". Billions of dollars instead helping poor Iranians, instead developing Iranian economy are sent to Aran terrorists to kill some Israelis.
 
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I just don;t understand why are you so against Iran? Is the open declaration that calls for the destruction of Israel? I know the trheat exists but when you look at it from the Sunni/Shia context, the Sunni's represents a bigger threat to humanity, I think.


Ahhh the brain fart. Ignorance at its best.

What if i had said that hinduism presents a greater threat to humanity. Get a life bugger get a life its not really that hard.
 
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Ahhh the brain fart. Ignorance at its best.

What if i had said that hinduism presents a greater threat to humanity. Get a life bugger get a life its not really that hard.

Number of Hindu terrorist Vs Number of Sunni terrorist gives the clear picture!
 
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Number of Hindu terrorist Vs Number of Sunni terrorist gives the clear picture!

A stupid then and a stupid now. Nothing changes, hope the next one have a better punch line to offer.
 
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Israeli Attack on Iran: Easier Said Than Done

Despite renewed media speculation regarding possible Israeli attacks against Iran’s nuclear facilities as early as this spring, skepticism that such a campaign could actually be successfully carried out remains relatively high, raising the question of whether there is more bark than bite to Israeli threats.

It cannot expect a repeat of 1981 when the Israeli air force destroyed the Osirak reactor at Al-Tuwaythah, just south of Baghdad.

The Iranians are aware of both Israeli capabilities and the U.S.-made precision-guided penetrating munitions in the Israeli inventory. The Iranian program has been dispersed all over the country — estimates range between 12 and more than 20 locations — and the facilities have been built with U.S. and Israeli capabilities in mind and are protected by modern Russian air-defense systems.

The single most critical element of the Iranian program is thought to be the Natanz facility. The heart of the facility is the centrifuge area, located in an underground, hardened structure.

But even if Israel tries to limits the target set, it would still have to attack other facilities besides Natanz. For example, the newer Fordow fuel-enrichment plant near Qom, where Iran has already moved 3.5% enriched uranium from Natanz, is built into the side of a mountain and is heavily fortified. There is a uranium conversion plant at Isfahan, a heavy-water facility being constructed at Arak, and centrifuge factories outside Tehran.

The straight-line distance between Israel and Natanz is almost 1,000 miles. Since the countries do not share a common border, Israeli aircraft or missiles must fly through foreign — and hostile — airspace to get to the target.

The least risky method of striking Natanz is with Israel’s medium-range ballistic missiles, the Jericho II or III. It is believed that the Israeli missiles can reach Natanz. However, to travel that far the missiles will have a limited warhead weight, and it is doubtful that these warheads will be able to penetrate far enough underground to achieve the desired level of destruction.

Thus, an attack by the Israeli air force’s U.S.-made fighter-bomber aircraft is the most likely option. The Israelis have 25 F-15I and about 100 F-16I jets.

The F-15I is capable of carrying four metric tons of fuel in its internal tanks, conformal fuel tanks (CFT), and detachable tanks. This enables it to fly about 2,800 miles. With midair refueling, the range can be extended further.

The F-15I can carry a very wide range of weapons such as various guided missiles and bombs, as well as iron bombs. All in all, the plane can carry about 10 metric tons of munitions.

The F-16I has an extended flight range that reportedly allows Israeli forces to attack targets well within Iran without having to refuel. Use of could CFT extends its effective mission range up to 50 percent. The baseline model has a combat radius of 850 miles with two 2,000-pound bombs and two air-to-air missiles, with 1,040-gallon external tanks.

Assuming an air attack, the question is how will the aircraft fly from their bases in Israel to a target located 200 miles inside Iran?

They could go either through Saudi Arabia or Iraq, possibly even using Jordanian airspace as well. Either route is a one-way trip of about 860 miles.

To overfly Saudi Arabia the strike aircraft depart southern Israel, enter Saudi airspace from the Gulf of Aqaba or Jordan, fly 800 miles of Saudi airspace to the Gulf and then 300 miles into Iran.

Since the Israeli air force does not operate stealth aircraft, there is a reasonable expectation that at some point the aircraft will be detected over Saudi Arabia. Whether Saudi defenses could — or would — be able to stop the Israelis is uncertain. Given Saudi fears over Iran’s nuclear program, perhaps they would turn a blind eye and claim ignorance.

If they chose to traverse Iranian airspace, the strike aircraft depart southern Israel, cross 300 to 400 miles of Saudi airspace or a combination of Jordanian and Saudi airspace, and enter Iraqi airspace as soon as possible, continue across 500 miles of Iraq to the Persian Gulf and then on to the target.

Entering Iran from Iraqi airspace would be politically delicate. Although U.S. troops are no longer there, traversing Iraqi airspace would not be possible without the knowledge, and most likely the permission, of the United States.

The key question is whether Israel’s fighter-bombers can conduct this mission without refueling. Combat radius — the distance an aircraft can fly and return without refueling — is difficult to calculate and depends on weapons payload, external fuel tanks, mission profile, etc.

The best “guesstimate” of the combat radius of the F-15I and F-16I, outfitted with conformal fuel tanks, two external wing tanks and a decent weapons load, is almost 1,000 miles. Either of the two possible flight routes above is about 200 miles further than that. To make up for the shortfall, the aircraft could be fitted with an additional external fuel tank, but this will require a reduction in the weapons load. Given the accuracy of the weapons in the Israeli inventory, that might not be problematic.

However, if the aircraft are detected and intercepted, the pilots will have to jettison the tanks in order to engage their attackers. Dropping the tanks will prevent the aircraft from reaching their target.

Air refueling is a limitation for the Israelis. In recent years Israel has acquired five C-130 and four to seven Boeing 707 tanker aircraft. However, the tankers would have to refuel the fighters in hostile airspace. The 707 is a large unarmed aircraft and would be very vulnerable to air defenses.

Theoretically, the Israelis could do this, but at great risk of failure. If they decide to attack Natanz, they will have to inflict sufficient damage the first time — they probably will not be able to mount follow-on strikes at other facilities.

The ultimate question, of course, is once Israeli planes have flown back, won’t Iran be able to repair the damage and accelerate the nuclear program? Or do the Israelis assume that the U.S. will pick up where they left and start a long-term war with Iran?


Two flaws with the assumptions in this article:

1- The 'hostile' airspace that Israel has to fly through may not really be hostile, as Saudia Arabia has already indicated that it wil let IDF use it.

2- You are assuming that only the Israeli aircraft will be targeting Iran. In reality, the Jews in USA are busy getting US involved and with 2 carriers in persian gulf, USA may very well strike with SEAD missions.
 
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Former CIA Director Michael V. Hayden told a group of foreign policy experts last month that Israel is not capable of inflicting significant damage on Iran's nuclear sites. “Some are situated at the outer range of Israeli bombers, and others are underground,” he said.

"The Israelis aren't going to [attack Iran]…they can't do it, it's beyond their capacity…. They only have the ability to make this worse," Hayden added.
 
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Israel is not going to bomb iran, Atleast for NOW!. Iran has upgraded its anti-air defence to a level where its really hard to get out of there. It may be low-tech stuff but duo the facts that its in huge quantity makes it very effectief. The only time when Israel will actually strongly consider striking iran is when the F35 is in use. And lets not forget it may be possible with a huge fleet of there F15s and F16s, Iran still lacks the capability to detect Stealth fighters and has a huge lack in air dominance. But according to Ayatollah iran plans to destroy israel before 2013 and then it will be far to late !!! Perhaps in the near future we may see some desperate attempt.
 
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Hezbollah was miserably beaten in 2006. They dont dare to fire a bullet towards Israel since then. Their leader hides like rat in bunker and their men are busy slaughtering civilians in Syria.


The rule is very simple: dont bomb us and we wont bomb u.


Why there is no free elections in Iran? Why no free press? Because your government afraids of people. Ahmadinejad is one of wannabe Arabs who cares about Arabs more than Iranians.


Israel started to recieve serrious Amerian aid only in 70-es. Yet we still defeated Arabs in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1968-1970. On the other hand hundreeds of billions of oil money did not help you to defeat one Iraq.


Excuses. In 1948 Israel was attacked when it had not regular army at all, not a single tank, cannon or fighter.


In Iran-Iraq war we fought with the whole world, not an Arab country, and you must search more and more!

And you even couldn't defeat Hezbollah in 2006!
 
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