Israeli Air Force Gears up to Strike Iran.

[Parashuram1]

you have made up a Nice story.
Solomon we are not out there doing mass murders of our own people .

That was a civil war and nothing can be proven from the either side so what is the fuss in your brain about 71 ??

If you have any Proofs why dont you bring them on ?

Oh my friend, but no one can ever prove what actually happened in that conflict. The eye witnesses there who support your country would speak in your favour, the soldiers who fought are no more... it ultimately boils down to relying on Bangladeshi newspapers.

Why drag Indians in between? The discussion here is about Pakistan's situation and that of this rebel force you speak of. Speaking of Blood Tears, there is also a very famous document called the Blood Telegram. Before declaring it as an Indian propaganda, why not take a look at that too? One can only take fair decisions if he/she sees both sides of the coin.

The apologies demanded were in respect to what incidents of violence against civilians happened and not collateral damage. Otherwise, the apologies won't have been an issue to Pakistani government for so long. I mean what guilt could your government have in apologizing for collateral damage if that was indeed the case? This is similar to the situation between China and Japan on World War till date.

 

[Solomon2]

OK, back to the topic. It seems very few Pakistanis are willing to openly side with Israel. But do you see the problem with remaining silent?

You've seen it here, that leaving the realm of discussion to those distorting or ignoring Israel and its case also means yielding the agenda to those who hold a wider distortion of history in general. Ultimately, your own history is affected and you know longer know who and what you are.

As much as I support Israel, I live in, revel, and treasure America. Those of us who care to know - for most people are busy living their lives - know how great America is. But you Pakistanis, have you considered that perhaps you need to support Israel, even more than I do?

 

[Comet]

Pakistanis should side with Israel? why?

 

[Solomon2]

Pakistanis should side with Israel? why?

Think of all the things you think your country needs to improve itself. Such consideration begins by being truthful about what has happened in the past. Yet how often have such discussions been squashed by accusations - or fears of accusations - that such things are "Zionist" in nature? After all, we've seen it right here in this thread.

On the other hand, if you embrace Zionism, if you embrace Israel, then you've accepted the burden of the ire of your political enemies. You've accepted living with that fear. Accusations of "Zionist" won't stop you. And you can proceed from that point to uncover, with the aid of like-minded countrymen the messes and fix the problems that truly plague the nation.

 

[shining eyes]

slomon2 seems like an agent of satan!

joke of the year isn't it?
PAKISTAN SIDES ISRAEL lol

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

OK, back to the topic. It seems very few Pakistanis are willing to openly side with Israel. But do you see the problem with remaining silent?

You've seen it here, that leaving the realm of discussion to those distorting or ignoring Israel and its case ?? also means yielding the agenda ?? to those who hold a wider distortion of history in general. Ultimately, your own history is affected and you know longer know who and what you are.

As much as I support Israel, I live in, revel, and treasure America. Those of us who care to know - for most people are busy living their lives - know how great America is. But you Pakistanis, have you considered that perhaps you need to support Israel, even more than I do?

No ones going to support israel if massacres like Gaza and the illegal occupation of palestinian land continues. Israel has Nukes and the most advanced military in middleEast. But that dosent means it has the right to dictate what is right and whats wrong. Under a possible Israeli attack the Iranians have the right to prepare themselves for their defence. However i still fail to understand on what grounds you ask for our support for Israeli cause of attacking Iran. Iran is country which helped us during our wars of 1965 and 1971 with India. And Israel has always sided with our staunch rival India. How can anyone here support Israel with all the barbarism it comitted over the last five decades ..??

 

[Solomon2]

joke of the year isn't it?
PAKISTAN SIDES ISRAEL lol

A just people must embrace both the process of prosecution and defense, yes? When was the last time Israel's case was weighed by Pakistanis? When was it ever?

If you suppress Israel's case you must also suppress the process of justice in general. People's very minds are bent, and this becomes a huge cultural distortion. No wonder Pakistani politicians proudly boast, "Corruption is our right!", or that last year, before they tasted it, the people of Swat dreamed the Taliban might be an improvement!

 

[Comet]

Think of all the things you think your country needs to improve itself. Such consideration begins by being truthful about what has happened in the past. Yet how often have such discussions been squashed by accusations - or fears of accusations - that such things are "Zionist" in nature? After all, we've seen it right here in this thread.

On the other hand, if you embrace Zionism, if you embrace Israel, then you've accepted the burden of the ire of your political enemies. You've accepted living with that fear. Accusations of "Zionist" won't stop you. And you can proceed from that point to uncover, with the aid of like-minded countrymen the messes and fix the problems that truly plague the nation.

Interesting...

The truth is, Solomom2, that every country and every region and every place is different than every other country, region, and place. 'Zionism' may have worked for some but not for us. Israel may be a friend or yours but not our, and can never be.

Why should we forget about out geopolitical situation (with Iran as our neighbor) and be friends with Israel?

 

[Solomon2]

No ones going to support israel if massacres like Gaza and the illegal occupation of palestinian land continues. Israel has Nukes and the most advanced military in middleEast...How can anyone here support Israel with all the barbarism it comitted over the last five decades ..??...And Israel has always sided with our staunch rival India.

These are things you've been told all your lives. They are, to say the least, not the whole story, and certainly not a balanced representation.

Under a possible Israeli attack the Iranians have the right to prepare themselves for their defence...However i still fail to understand on what grounds you ask for our support for Israeli cause of attacking Iran. ...Iran is country which helped us during our wars of 1965 and 1971 with India.

It was the Shah's regime that helped you then, both as part of CENTO and as a friend. The Shah not only wanted to stay in power but wanted to advance his nation and keep out the communists. Today, Iran's mullahs seek nothing less than to create a new Persian Empire. If they meet their goals to the west they will surely turn their attentions eastward. I suppose you could wait a few years, but doesn't it make more sense to address the Iranian threat now?

But that dosent means it has the right to dictate what is right and whats wrong.

No sir. Yet Pakistanis are ignorant of many facts and their context when it comes to Israel. So does it really make sense to you that Pakistanis have a firm grasp of right or wrong? Or that Pakistanis should blindly follow the desires of others on this matter? Look what it's costing your society!

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

A just people must embrace both the process of prosecution and defense, yes? When was the last time Israel's case was weighed by Pakistanis? When was it ever?

If you suppress Israel's case you must also suppress the process of justice in general. People's very minds are bent, and this becomes a huge cultural distortion. No wonder Pakistani politicians proudly boast, "Corruption is our right!", or that last year, before they tasted it, the people of Swat dreamed the Taliban might be an improvement!

When was the last time Pakistani cause over Kashmir has been weighted out by the Israelis ..All we see is the Israeli Top Millitery Bras visiting kashmir's forward lines as they could in some way help India achieve its goals in Kashmir.

Israel has always supresed Pakistani cause. Remeber the Time when Israeli jets were flying in Indian airspace to attack Pakistani Nuclear Installations.
What is the process of Justice ??..! .
The people of swat never acknowledged the Irhabists as improvement its BS crap..get over it.

 

[Solomon2]

'Zionism' may have worked for some but not for us. Israel may be a friend or yours but not our, and can never be.

"Never" is such a strong word, it implies either complete knowledge of the situation or that the facts and their context don't matter. Balanced knowledge of Israel is something Pakistanis clearly lack. That can be mended. But an attitude that, when all is said and done, the facts don't matter - that means one has committed to living a lie, doesn't it? And one lie leads to another, then more and bigger ones...

It probably doesn't surprise you that Germany paid reparations to the state of Israel after WWII. What may surprise you is that they did this in the mid-1960s, long after the allied military administration ceased. Germany didn't do this just for the sake of the Jews; they did this to rid their society of the damage to its collective psyche caused by the lies and crimes of Nazism which were committed in the name of the whole German nation. Then they could be a "normal" country.

While Pakistan owes Israel nothing comparable to the Jews, that psychic distortion is still there. Do you think you can really solve your country's problems without dealing with it?

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

These are things you've been told all your lives. They are, to say the least, not the whole story, and certainly not a balanced representation.

pls tell me 1 solid reason to believe the case that Israel has never comitted masacre of innocent palestinias . I tell you the same , The point which you are making has been embeded in you mind throughout your life. Israel's hands are covered with the blood of armless & innocent children and women and men of Palestine and some day in future the Israeli Nation will pay for its bloodshed, might it be the case of Iran acquiring nukes...!!!

I suppose you could wait a few years, but doesn't it make more sense to address the Iranian threat now?

Though there exist some bumps in our relations with the current regieme of Iran but this in noway can be brought to a level that Pakistan should support the Israli cause of bombing Iran. I dont see any future prick btw Iran and Pakistan which might result in an enemity and a possible support of Israel against Iran.

No sir. Yet Pakistanis are ignorant of many facts and their context when it comes to Israel. So does it really make sense to you that Pakistanis have a firm grasp of right or wrong?

Yes i agree that we might not have the full context and understanding of Israeli history but neither Israel is sweet heart of Pakistan nor it has any friendly ties with Pakistan but it has always supported our rival India and has never hesitated to display hostile ideas towards Pakistan. No Pakistani is ignorant of this fact.

 

[Solomon2]

When was the last time Pakistani cause over Kashmir has been weighted out by the Israelis -

No matter how much we criticize others, it doesn't help us improve ourselves, does it? Now multiply that by a hundred million and you get a Pakistan-wide psychic distortion.

All we see is...

All you see, yes. Distortion.

The people of swat never acknowledged the Irhabists as improvement its BS crap..get over it.

But they thought they might be and looked forward to the swifter justice the Taliban had to offer - until they experienced it.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

All you see, yes. Distortion.


Israeli Army chief in Kashmir

Israeli Army Delegation to Visit Kashmir in October


Deepening Indo-Israeli Military Cooperation: Israeli Army General visited Jammu and Kashmir

pls take time to go through the links or else they will go to waste..!!!
Even still you deem Pakistani support in Israeli designs against Iran.

 

[Solomon2]

You've missed it. Your viewpoint - and that of too many of your countrymen - is unbalanced. Lots of facts just aren't evaluated. You can't make just judgments that way.

As for visits, training, etc. - everyone does this. Furthermore, India is a customer of Israel's arms manufacturers. I can imagine that this sort of thing is easy to distort into something else. Yet you don't talk about going to war with Russia because it sells India weapons, do you?

And yet...maybe Israel should be paying more attention to Pakistan. Because its decision-makers may be in danger of believing and acting upon false propaganda, so maybe Pakistan is developing into a real threat? In that case, the solution is clear, for if you don't make Israel into your enemy, Israel won't become yours.