Israel to deploy nuclear submarines off Iran coast

[Bhim]

What if Iran captures the nuclear sub by Israel ? then what

Then we'll snatch it from Iran and then both of us can go on a world tour in this sub

 

[below_freezing]

How does its diesel subs go as far as the persian gulf? the first 3 subs are not AIP capable, which means they have to surface occasionally for air to run the diesel engine. the battery only gets them a few hundred miles. they must either be snorkling or surfaced to pass; it is not likely that egypt or saudi arabia failed to detect snorkling submarines.

interesting. it seems like whole muslim world has backstabbed iran.

 

[Thomas]

They also have a decent fleet of submarines though these are generally small with short range mostly to defend close to their coastlines. Qaeem class is the subs they are currently building which are 1,000 tons(First one is still under construction)SSK Kilo subs from Russia are their big ones which could reach Israeli waters and such.

I found a very informative PDF on Iranian Navy Sub capabilities up to 2006. While some things have changed such as Iran currently attempting to build it's own subs. Iran still lacks an effective submarine force able to take on western powers for very long.

Iran’s Submarine Forces
http://csis.org/files/media/csis/pubs/060728_gulf_iran.pdf

Iran has attempted to offset the weakness of its major surface forces by obtaining three Type 877 EKM Kilo-class submarines. The Kilo is a relatively modern and quiet submarine that first became operational in 1980. The Iranian Kilos are Type 877EKM export versions that are about 10 meters longer than the original Kilos and are equipped with advanced command and control systems. Each Type 877EKM has a teardrop hull coated with anechoic tiles to reduce noise. It displaces approximately 3,076 tons when submerged and 2,325 tons when surfaced. It is 72.6 meters long, 9.9 meters in beam, has a drought of 6.6 meters, and is powered by three 1,895 HP generator sets, one 5,900 SHP electric motor and one six-bladed propeller. It has a complement of 52 men and an endurance of 45 days. Its maximum submerged speed is 17 knots and its maximum surface speed is 10 knots.

Each Kilo has six 530 mm torpedo tubes, including two wired guided torpedo tubes. Only one torpedo can be wire-guided at a time. The Kilo can carry a mix of 18 homing and wire guided torpedoes or 24 mines. Russian torpedoes are available with ranges of 15-19 kilometers, speeds of 29-40 knots, and warheads with 100, 205, and 305-kilogram weights. Their guidance systems include active sonar homing, passive homing, wire guidance, and active homing. Some reports indicate that Iran bought over 1,000 modern Soviet mines with the Kilos, and that the mines were equipped with modern magnetic, acoustic, and pressure sensors.

The Kilo has a remote antiaircraft launcher with one pre-loaded missile in the sail and Soviet versions have 6 SA-N-5 (Igla/SA-16) surface-to-air missiles stored inside. However, Russia only supplied Iran with the SA-14 (Strela). It can be modernized to carry Chinese YJ-1 or Russian Novator Alfa surface-to surface missiles. The Kilo has a maximum surface speed of 10 knots, a maximum submerged speed of about 17 knots, a minimum submerged operating depth of about 30 meters, an operational diving depth of 240 meters, and a maximum diving depth of 300 meters. The submarine also has a surface cruise range of 3,000-6,000 nautical miles and a submerged cruise range of 400 nautical miles

depending on speed and combat conditions. Iran’s ability to use its submarines to deliver mines and fire long-range wake-homing torpedoes give it a potential capability to strike in ways that make it difficult to detect or attack the submarine. Mines can be laid covertly in critical areas before a conflict, and the mines can be set
to activate and de-activate at pre-determined intervals in ways that make mining difficult to detect and sweep. Long-range homing torpedoes can be used against tanker-sized targets at ranges in excess of 10 kilometers, and to attack slow-moving combat ships that are not on alert and/or which lack sonars and countermeasures.

At the same time, many Third World countries have found submarines to be difficult to operate. For example, Russia delivered the first two Kilos with two 120-cell batteries designed for rapid power surges, rather than power over long periods. They proved to last only 1-2 years in warm waters versus 5-7 years for similar batteries from India and the UK. Iran had to turn to India for help in developing batteries that are reliable in the warm waters of the Gulf. Iran has also had problems with the air conditioning in the ships, and their serviceability has been erratic.

There are serious questions about crew capability and readiness, and all three submarines already need significant refits. Iran faces significant operational problems in using its submarines in local waters. Many areas of the Gulf do not favor submarine operations. The Gulf is about 241,000 square kilometers in area, and stretches 990 kilometers from the Shatt al-Arab to the Straits of Hormuz. It is about 340 kilometers wide at is maximum width, and about 225 kilometers wide for most of its length.

While heat patterns disturb surface sonars, they also disturb submarine sonars, and the advantage seems to be slightly in favor of sophisticated surface ships and maritime patrol aircraft. The deeper parts of the Gulf are noisy enough to make ASW operations difficult, but large parts of the Gulf including much of the Southern Gulf on a line from Al Jubail across the tip of Qatar to about half way up the UAE are less than 20 meters deep.

The water is deeper on the Iranian side, but the maximum depth of the Gulf -- located about 30 kilometers south of Qeys Island is still only 88 meters. This means that no point in the Gulf is deeper than the length of an SN-688 nuclear submarine. The keel to tower height of such a submarine alone is 16 meters. Even smaller coastal submarines have maneuver and bottom suction problems, and cannot hide in thermoclines, or take advantage of diving for concealment or self-protection. This may explain why Iran is planning to relocate its submarines from Bandar Abbas, inside the Gulf, to Chah Bahar in the Gulf of Oman and is deepening the navy facility at Chah Bahar.

The Strait of Hormuz at the entrance to the Gulf is about 180 kilometers long, but has a minimum width of 39 kilometers, and only the two deep-water channels are suitable for major surface ship or submarine operations. Further, a limited flow of fresh water and high evaporation makes the Gulf extremely salty. This creates complex underwater currents in the main channels at the Straits of Hormuz and complicates both submarine operations, and submarine detection. There are some areas with considerable noise, but not of a type that masks submarine noise from sophisticated ASW detection systems of the kind operated by the US and UK.

Further, the minimum operating depth of the Kilo is 45 meters, and the limited depth of the area around the Straits can make submarine operations difficult. Submarines are easier to operate in the Gulf of Oman, which is noisy enough to make ASW operations difficult, but such deployments would expose the Kilos to operations by US and British nuclear attack submarines. It is unlikely that Iran’s Kilos could survive for any length of time if hunted by a US or British navy air-surface SSN hunter-killer team

In any case, the effectiveness of Iran’s submarines is likely to depend heavily on the degree of Western involvement in any ASW operation. If the Kilos did not face the US or British ASW forces, the Iranian Kilos could operate in or near the Gulf with considerable impunity. If they did face US and British forces, they might be able to attack a few tankers or conduct some mining efforts, but are unlikely to survive extended combat. This makes the Kilos a weapon that may be more effective in threatening Gulf shipping, or as a remote mine layer, than in naval combat. Certainly, Iran’s purchase of the Kilos has already received close attention from the Southern Gulf states and convinced them that they must take Iran more seriously.

 

[TOPGUN]

A bit of topic... can't PN subs be armed with nuke tripped missiles?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

A bit of topic... can't PN subs be armed with nuke tripped missiles?

Well our normal subs we can just take a live nuclear missile and then bring the sub up at sea level bring out the missile out from inside , setit up 20-30 min - and launch and then dive back in don't even need to shoot under water - just come above @ sea level to finish the mission , I doubt any plane will intercept our normal subs

 

[roach]

So maybe the Apocalypse is coming.
Hooray! No more work, mobile phones, credit card bills, commuting and whatnot.
We need to stock up on shotguns and ammo, chocolates and dirty magazines. And, start digging a basement.

 

[Nima]

@ the Yankee
We refitted our kilo class subs since 06

 

[Nima]

Well they have them certainly Agusta Bell AB 212s helicopters and Sikorsky SH-3D Sea King in their inventory are made for anti submarine roles. They also have a decent fleet of submarines though these are generally small with short range mostly to defend close to their coastlines. Qaeem class is the subs they are currently building which are 1,000 tons(First one is still under construction)SSK Kilo subs from Russia are their big ones which could reach Israeli waters and such. The rest of their navy consists of small frigates and some corvettes. They depend more on missile craft. Which they have a large number of. It is clear though they lack any long range capability just coastline defense and minimal open sea force projection.

you forgot the hoot missile
It's a perfect weapon for the Persian gulf.
340 km/h

 

[Jigs]

I found a very informative PDF on Iranian Navy Sub capabilities up to 2006. While some things have changed such as Iran currently attempting to build it's own subs. Iran still lacks an effective submarine force able to take on western powers for very long.

Iran’s Submarine Forces
http://csis.org/files/media/csis/pubs/060728_gulf_iran.pdf

Iran has attempted to offset the weakness of its major surface forces by obtaining three Type 877 EKM Kilo-class submarines. The Kilo is a relatively modern and quiet submarine that first became operational in 1980. The Iranian Kilos are Type 877EKM export versions that are about 10 meters longer than the original Kilos and are equipped with advanced command and control systems. Each Type 877EKM has a teardrop hull coated with anechoic tiles to reduce noise. It displaces approximately 3,076 tons when submerged and 2,325 tons when surfaced. It is 72.6 meters long, 9.9 meters in beam, has a drought of 6.6 meters, and is powered by three 1,895 HP generator sets, one 5,900 SHP electric motor and one six-bladed propeller. It has a complement of 52 men and an endurance of 45 days. Its maximum submerged speed is 17 knots and its maximum surface speed is 10 knots.

Each Kilo has six 530 mm torpedo tubes, including two wired guided torpedo tubes. Only one torpedo can be wire-guided at a time. The Kilo can carry a mix of 18 homing and wire guided torpedoes or 24 mines. Russian torpedoes are available with ranges of 15-19 kilometers, speeds of 29-40 knots, and warheads with 100, 205, and 305-kilogram weights. Their guidance systems include active sonar homing, passive homing, wire guidance, and active homing. Some reports indicate that Iran bought over 1,000 modern Soviet mines with the Kilos, and that the mines were equipped with modern magnetic, acoustic, and pressure sensors.

The Kilo has a remote antiaircraft launcher with one pre-loaded missile in the sail and Soviet versions have 6 SA-N-5 (Igla/SA-16) surface-to-air missiles stored inside. However, Russia only supplied Iran with the SA-14 (Strela). It can be modernized to carry Chinese YJ-1 or Russian Novator Alfa surface-to surface missiles. The Kilo has a maximum surface speed of 10 knots, a maximum submerged speed of about 17 knots, a minimum submerged operating depth of about 30 meters, an operational diving depth of 240 meters, and a maximum diving depth of 300 meters. The submarine also has a surface cruise range of 3,000-6,000 nautical miles and a submerged cruise range of 400 nautical miles

depending on speed and combat conditions. Iran’s ability to use its submarines to deliver mines and fire long-range wake-homing torpedoes give it a potential capability to strike in ways that make it difficult to detect or attack the submarine. Mines can be laid covertly in critical areas before a conflict, and the mines can be set
to activate and de-activate at pre-determined intervals in ways that make mining difficult to detect and sweep. Long-range homing torpedoes can be used against tanker-sized targets at ranges in excess of 10 kilometers, and to attack slow-moving combat ships that are not on alert and/or which lack sonars and countermeasures.

At the same time, many Third World countries have found submarines to be difficult to operate. For example, Russia delivered the first two Kilos with two 120-cell batteries designed for rapid power surges, rather than power over long periods. They proved to last only 1-2 years in warm waters versus 5-7 years for similar batteries from India and the UK. Iran had to turn to India for help in developing batteries that are reliable in the warm waters of the Gulf. Iran has also had problems with the air conditioning in the ships, and their serviceability has been erratic.

There are serious questions about crew capability and readiness, and all three submarines already need significant refits. Iran faces significant operational problems in using its submarines in local waters. Many areas of the Gulf do not favor submarine operations. The Gulf is about 241,000 square kilometers in area, and stretches 990 kilometers from the Shatt al-Arab to the Straits of Hormuz. It is about 340 kilometers wide at is maximum width, and about 225 kilometers wide for most of its length.

While heat patterns disturb surface sonars, they also disturb submarine sonars, and the advantage seems to be slightly in favor of sophisticated surface ships and maritime patrol aircraft. The deeper parts of the Gulf are noisy enough to make ASW operations difficult, but large parts of the Gulf including much of the Southern Gulf on a line from Al Jubail across the tip of Qatar to about half way up the UAE are less than 20 meters deep.

The water is deeper on the Iranian side, but the maximum depth of the Gulf -- located about 30 kilometers south of Qeys Island is still only 88 meters. This means that no point in the Gulf is deeper than the length of an SN-688 nuclear submarine. The keel to tower height of such a submarine alone is 16 meters. Even smaller coastal submarines have maneuver and bottom suction problems, and cannot hide in thermoclines, or take advantage of diving for concealment or self-protection. This may explain why Iran is planning to relocate its submarines from Bandar Abbas, inside the Gulf, to Chah Bahar in the Gulf of Oman and is deepening the navy facility at Chah Bahar.

The Strait of Hormuz at the entrance to the Gulf is about 180 kilometers long, but has a minimum width of 39 kilometers, and only the two deep-water channels are suitable for major surface ship or submarine operations. Further, a limited flow of fresh water and high evaporation makes the Gulf extremely salty. This creates complex underwater currents in the main channels at the Straits of Hormuz and complicates both submarine operations, and submarine detection. There are some areas with considerable noise, but not of a type that masks submarine noise from sophisticated ASW detection systems of the kind operated by the US and UK.

Further, the minimum operating depth of the Kilo is 45 meters, and the limited depth of the area around the Straits can make submarine operations difficult. Submarines are easier to operate in the Gulf of Oman, which is noisy enough to make ASW operations difficult, but such deployments would expose the Kilos to operations by US and British nuclear attack submarines. It is unlikely that Iran’s Kilos could survive for any length of time if hunted by a US or British navy air-surface SSN hunter-killer team

In any case, the effectiveness of Iran’s submarines is likely to depend heavily on the degree of Western involvement in any ASW operation. If the Kilos did not face the US or British ASW forces, the Iranian Kilos could operate in or near the Gulf with considerable impunity. If they did face US and British forces, they might be able to attack a few tankers or conduct some mining efforts, but are unlikely to survive extended combat. This makes the Kilos a weapon that may be more effective in threatening Gulf shipping, or as a remote mine layer, than in naval combat. Certainly, Iran’s purchase of the Kilos has already received close attention from the Southern Gulf states and convinced them that they must take Iran more seriously.

Very informative indeed. I don't see those Kilos messing with Dolphin class subs though. They are one of the most advanced if not currently the most advanced Diesel-electric subs out there. Of course U.S. and British Naval forces is a whole new challenge. Not that i see Iran responding to Isreal's deployment of their subs unless they are found very close to Iran's waters. Risky undertaking by Israel that could provoke Iran. (Might be what Israel wants)

 

[monitor]

so they'll Gona attack Iran with Nukes ??

We should immediately dispatch a Dozen Nukes + Cruise Missiles to Iran & Syria to Tackle the situation ..

and wait for the consequence .

 

[Cheetah786]

How does its diesel subs go as far as the persian gulf? the first 3 subs are not AIP capable, which means they have to surface occasionally for air to run the diesel engine. the battery only gets them a few hundred miles. they must either be snorkling or surfaced to pass; it is not likely that egypt or saudi arabia failed to detect snorkling submarines.

interesting. it seems like whole muslim world has backstabbed iran.

Not whole just Wahabies the people who back stabbed prophets Grandson nothing less can be expected from them.

 

[Itachi]

I have a question, which is, "Won't the Israeli Subs be a long way from home and in middle of "Israel hatting" nation?? and won't Iran be able to easily bbq them??"

I am knew, by the way!!!