Israel Deploys Nuclear Weapons on German-Built Submarines

[Anka]

Turkey lack the power to inflict damage to IAF, your navy is a sitting duck for IAF, so no matter how large you navy is, it is vulnerable

Archdeamon, you know nothing about strategy dont you? Do you really understand what kind an operation needed to keep supply routes open for Israel if Turkey decides to stop it? How on earth will you track all Turkish ships (including submarines) in such a big sea? How will you attack a navy with air support scattered in a big sea? Forget about offensive actions, how will you defend your shipments and homeland at the same time without navy ships, only with air force? How many sorties can your little country support without replacement from other countries? How long will your food supplies last? Even British couldnt managed it without US help against Germans whose only asset was Uboats, what will you do against an enemy who has various assets in Nato standards?
Even the best defended forts fall under siege. And Your vision of IAF attacking Turkish targets and loosing no planes is just a fools dream.

 

[Archdemon]

Big sea? are kidding
Israel operate UAVs for surveillance, squadron with LOROP ISR pods, 3 SeaScan maritime patrol aircrafts, 3 G550 Eitam CAEW, 3 G550 Shavit SEMA, 3 optical surveillance satellites and one SAR satellite, to track Turkish navy vessels is not a problem.

Food supples? Israel doesn't really on food imports.
not losing a plane? did i said that there be no casualties?
what is the connection to sorties and size of Israel? didn't we established that IAF and TuAF are more or less at the same quantity level, the ground support proportional to aircrafts and their designation

 

[Anka]

Big sea? are kidding or just being Turk?
Israel operate UAVs for surveillance, 3 SeaScan maritime patrol aircrafts, 3 G550 Eitam CAEW, 3 G550 Shavit SEMA, 3 optical surveillance satellites and one SAR satellite, to track Turkish navy vessels is not a problem.

Food supples? Israel doesn't really on food imports.
not losing a plane? did i said that there be no casualties?
what is the connection to sorties and size of Israel? didn't we established that IAF and TuAF are more or less at the same quantity level, the ground support proportional to aircrafts and their designation

You are the one who must be kidding since you are telling those assets will be enough cover an area from Italy to Israel. Food was just an example for unrenewable sources. You didnt say exacly that there wont be any casualties but you implemented that with saying "no match" We can produce ships, we can produce war planes, we can produce subnarines but you cant. THAT IS THE POINT. Again Germans destroyed many allied equipment but that didnt stop allies. I didnt recognize that you agree on the terms of air power equality, but if you did agree on that, how do you still keep pushing the issue? Israel has a strong army to defend its homeland, but every army has its limits based on the economical and human source factors. You cannot win a war without support against Turkey.

 

[SOHEIL]

Terrorism Under water

 

[BordoEnes]

Big sea? are kidding
Israel operate UAVs for surveillance, squadron with LOROP ISR pods, 3 SeaScan maritime patrol aircrafts, 3 G550 Eitam CAEW, 3 G550 Shavit SEMA, 3 optical surveillance satellites and one SAR satellite, to track Turkish navy vessels is not a problem.

Food supples? Israel doesn't really on food imports.
not losing a plane? did i said that there be no casualties?
what is the connection to sorties and size of Israel? didn't we established that IAF and TuAF are more or less at the same quantity level, the ground support proportional to aircrafts and their designation

How naive of you, Tell me what will happen even if you locate the ships, What will you do. If one happens to be a OHP-Class GENESIS Frigate we will just blow the Aircraft out of the Sky. If you happen to respond with a warship, Well you dont have decent warship that even can be a match Against these Frigates. When it comes at Navies the only good think about Israeli is there Dolphin class Submarines but thats about it. And we are already buying and devolping new equipment specificly for ASW Role, Ada-Class Corvette or ART-72 for instance.

 

[500]

Archdeamon, you know nothing about strategy dont you? Do you really understand what kind an operation needed to keep supply routes open for Israel if Turkey decides to stop it?

Who is going to sink foreign ships?

How on earth will you track all Turkish ships (including submarines) in such a big sea?

One Eitam can track 580,000 km2 each moment.

Selected area is 530,000 km2.

How will you attack a navy with air support scattered in a big sea?

With missiles.

Forget about offensive actions, how will you defend your shipments and homeland at the same time without navy ships, only with air force?

Any ship that will attack our shipments will be sank.

How many sorties can your little country support without replacement from other countries?

Tens of thousands over 600 a day.

How long will your food supplies last?

Unlimited.

3 optical surveillance satellites and one SAR satellite

5 Optical.

Ofeq 5, 7, 9
Eros-A, Eros-B.

How naive of you, Tell me what will happen even if you locate the ships, What will you do. If one happens to be a OHP-Class GENESIS Frigate we will just blow the Aircraft out of the Sky.

With 50 km range SAM?

If you happen to respond with a warship, Well you dont have decent warship that even can be a match Against these Frigates.

All our warships can easily match your frigates.They have same Harpoon missiles u know. In terms of EW I bet our ships are superior.

 

[Anka]

Who is going to sink foreign ships?

That is where foreign intervention begins.

"One Eitam can track 580,000 km2 each moment."
So what? US has dozens of more advanced ones but still prates attack.

"With missiles."
Here we are again, lack of strategical concept. And TuAF will just sit and watch? Dont be such a child, The attacking ship or worse submarine will be ready for that with assigned fighter jets. You will load harpoons to your planes to sink the ships and that will be make those planes vulnerable to air to air fight. You will need to assign a squadron of fighters to protect them and then you will have major operation in your hands just to protect a merchant ship with your valuable and irreplaceable planes.

"Any ship that will attack our shipments will be sank."
Good luck with that.

"Tens of thousands over 600 a day."
Planes use fuel not water.

"Unlimited."
Now we can add logistics to the list of Lack of understanding too.


"With 50 km range SAM?"
Lets say you managed to sink that ship, you will lose planes. We can build a corvette or frigate, but you cannot replace those planes. So what will you do next time? or then? or after than?


"All our warships can easily match your frigates.They have same Harpoon missiles u know. In terms of EW I bet our ships are superior."
Can you replace them? No. Even if they are superior they wont save you if you cannot replace them.

 

[500]

That is where foreign intervention begins.

Yep no one will sink foreign shipments to us.

"One Eitam can track 580,000 km2 each moment."
So what? US has dozens of more advanced ones but still prates attack.

Because engagement rules limits. If there will be order to sink every Somali ship that goes beyond 5 km there will be no piracy problem.

"With missiles."
Here we are again, lack of strategical concept. And TuAF will just sit and watch? Dont be such a child, The attacking ship or worse submarine will be ready for that with assigned fighter jets. You will load harpoons to your planes to sink the ships and that will be make those planes vulnerable to air to air fight. You will need to assign a squadron of fighters to protect them and then you will have major operation in your hands just to protect a merchant ship with your valuable and irreplaceable planes.

F-15s cover from above.

"Any ship that will attack our shipments will be sank."
Good luck with that.

Tnx

"Tens of thousands over 600 a day."
Planes use fuel not water.

We have reserves for tens of thousands of sorties.

"Unlimited."
Now we can add logistics to the list of Lack of understanding too.

Dont worry for me.

"With 50 km range SAM?"
Lets say you managed to sink that ship, you will lose planes. We can build a corvette or frigate, but you cannot replace those planes. So what will you do next time? or then? or after than?

Why would we lose plane and what makes u think that one fighter easier to replace than frigate?

"All our warships can easily match your frigates.They have same Harpoon missiles u know. In terms of EW I bet our ships are superior."
Can you replace them? No. Even if they are superior they wont save you if you cannot replace them.

We can replace of course. We have shipyards and all weapons and electronic equipment is ours except the Harpoons.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

First of all as far as i know we have harpoons aswell

Now air force

IAFl F-15 = 85
IAF F-16 = 362 Total = 447

TAF F-16 = 270
TAF F-4 162(127 fighter-35 reconnaisance)54 Upgraded , rest being upgraded by Aselsan
Total = 432 Total ( 397 Fighter)

Turkish navy- 48,600 Personel
75 Aircraft
17 Frigate
7 Corvette
14 Submarine
27 Missile boat

Israel Navy - 19,500 Personell
3 Corvette
10 Missile Boat
4 Submarine
42 Patrol Boat

Look at difference between Navies is Huge

This is one of our Fast attack craft , This even looks quite big

One of our Frigates , This looks Big

These are equipped with 16 sparrow missiles 8 Harpoons and many other weapons

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

This is a interview with our ex admiral This is google translate not very good 10.09.2011


"Diplomacy can talk for up to naval. Turkey has the right to speak adequately. Turkish navy today the greatest military power in Eastern Mediterranean and Black Sea " Prime Minister Erdogan made ​​by Al-Jazeera television, "the civilian ships to take humanitarian aid to Gaza after the war ships that will be accompanied by" a little more explanation escalated tensions already high in the Eastern Mediterranean. So, in such an important mission on the Turkish Naval Forces ready? What strengths and weaknesses of the Navy? Retired former Naval Forces Commander Admiral Salim All of these questions asked Dervişoğlu'na. House in Istanbul Vatan Answering questions from experienced admiral, an armed conflict between the two naval expect, but it could start a new process between the parties, he said. "Political tensions into conflict does not benefit anyone. Everyone knows it. Collides with the other two tests will crack one of the breaks. Therefore, the voltage is high, such as a period of armed conflict be experienced rather than think of the Aegean. Sides of this tension is not only Turkey and Israel. The EU is also watching developments with the United States is extremely. My guess is that the direction will not be a conflict. Because what our NATO allies in such a conflict, neither the U.S., the EU nor the UN wants.

"Three things are important to a country's naval forces: the first ships. Second, bases of support. Third, the possible areas of action. In addition, one of the imperatives of the air campaign in support of the sea. Sea air and helicopter fleet strengthened. Exponent developed serious possibilities. There was also a big change in ships. Important part of our vessels began to be built nationally, and reduced dependence on foreign technology. Turkish navy today the greatest military power in Eastern Mediterranean and Black Sea. You talk to naval diplomacy. Sufficiently strong enough to allow Turkey to speak Turkish navy. Turkey pursued an active foreign policy, the aircraft carrier has become essential. Field of conflict, rather than what works on an aircraft carrier you know when you sit on the table. Let me give an example, although not a member of NATO NATO operation in Yugoslavia, France, and four frigates, joined by an aircraft carrier. For this reason, most said word in France, and ultimately rested most of their promise. "

Basically he is saying you can talk as much as your naval power so stronger the navy stronger diplomacy you have and giving example of france how as they had aircraft carrier there words were important and listened to , and saying with an active foreign policy an aircraft carrier for Turkey is essential -- I agree with him

 

[KingMamba]

His soldiers were Arabs. Whats thats silly personal attack about?

Oh, not again.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...482-israel-defense-forces-74.html#post2998397


Currently Turkish navy ships dont have SAMs with range over 50 km. Hence they are easy prey to jets with Harpoons. And even introduction of TF2000 with SM-2/Aster wont change much because sea skimming jets still could hit it quite easely (ship cant see under horizon).

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/06/opinion/the-last-nuclear-moment.html?src=pm
The Last Nuclear Moment - Page 2 - New York Times

Yep you guys lost the 1973 war, but don't worry we helped you guys secure a "stalemate" . It is ludicrous that Israelis claim 1973 as a victory when that war clearly was the main reason you guys ceded the sinai back to Egypt in 1979 at best you guys should be claiming a tie.

The true IDF - United States Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

Come on Isreal did lose the 1973 war

 

[500]

First of all as far as i know we have harpoons aswell

Now air force

IAFl F-15 = 85
IAF F-16 = 362 Total = 447

TAF F-16 = 270
TAF F-4 162(127 fighter-35 reconnaisance)54 Upgraded , rest being upgraded by Aselsan
Total = 432 Total ( 397 Fighter)

F-4 are only good for AG roles. F-15 is air to air monster.

Look at difference between Navies is Huge

Surface ships if come close to use are siting ducks in this closed sea. You need it for dickmeasuring contest with Greece, but we are not in this game

Yep you guys lost the 1973 war

LOL, again?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...482-israel-defense-forces-74.html#post2998397

but don't worry we helped you guys secure a "stalemate" . It is ludicrous that Israelis claim 1973 as a victory when that war clearly was the main reason you guys ceded the sinai back to Egypt in 1979 at best you guys should be claiming a tie.

The reason we gave up Sinai in 1979 was same that we gave up Sinai in 1956: the US pressure.

The true IDF - United States Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not a single soldier ever fought for Israel. In fact US switched to Israel's side only AFTER the six day war, when Israel secured itself fully.

 

[Anka]

"Yep no one will sink foreign shipments to us."
Don't make me laugh.


"Because engagement rules limits. If there will be order to sink every Somali ship that goes beyond 5 km there will be no piracy problem."
Logical error, Somali ships doesn't have identification codes so does enemy ships to make it convenient to you to kill it. You cannot know exactly which country it belongs to especially in a crowded route like Mediterranean.


"F-15s cover from above."
So? This is no solution. Read my comment again and try to understand the militaristic problem better please.


"Tnx"
You don't event try to think it trough, acting solely on defensive nationalistic impulses. Try to look at issue like foregner. Don't think small and one dimensional.

"We have reserves for tens of thousands of sorties."
Another answer given by impulse. To keep such a stock you would need facilities as big as a major city. Don't make me calculate the exact volume for that kind of fuel storage operation. I don't even mention the security issues. So be realistic. Saudi Arabia and others are not fund of you.

"Dont worry for me."
You are trying to defend an implausible argument. Logical flaws everywhere, how wouldn't I ?

"Why would we lose plane and what makes u think that one fighter easier to replace than frigate?"
You engage an equal air force , you will lose planes. this kind a question might make people question your IQ, stop it. Also that is the base of whole argument, your supply line under attack. You cannot replace equipment as easy. But we can dice we make them. Also you blocade gaza but know nothing about a blocade? Please if you won't find any plausible answer please don't bother.

"We can replace of course. We have shipyards and all weapons and electronic equipment is ours except the Harpoons."
If you have manpower to produce planes or ships why don't you? Because it is not easy to built them.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

ok so every country should just get 1-2 corvettes forget about their navies because its all sitting ducks and they are useless and just keep getting jets , haha you are very funny , for you everything we have is sitting ducks when the difference is very very big , if you had our navy today you would make up other things like our sams will shoot down the jets easily as i said the frigates have 16 sparrows , torpedoes , harpoons and many other weapons , just even look at fast attack craft , its even big for normal ones , you guys can use your little inflated boats

F-4 are only good for AG roles. F-15 is air to air monster.


Surface ships if come close to use are siting ducks in this closed sea. You need it for dickmeasuring contest with Greece, but we are not in this game


LOL, again?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...482-israel-defense-forces-74.html#post2998397


The reason we gave up Sinai in 1979 was same that we gave up Sinai in 1956: the US pressure.


Not a single soldier ever fought for Israel. In fact US switched to Israel's side only AFTER the six day war, when Israel secured itself fully.