Israel and Non Arab Muslim countries

[BLACKEAGLE]

@Aryan-B liking posts calling for annihilation of "Wahhabis" (Sunni).

 

[lem34]

Canaan plz, don't listen to me and just check his posts history to see his racist rants toward Arabs and Muslims (and to be precise "Sunni").

I am Sunni. Please do read. But please read in the context it was stated. Even on this thread I have emailed a Palestinian whose position is that Israel has no right to exist to explain the Palestinian side. Not only that I have posted her article which is the most powerful post in support of Palestinians on this thread.

 

[Mosamania]

Shame on you I have not brought sectarianism in this thread you have

No but you in fact have created a plethora of threads centering around it. Since this thread was started by YOu it is only relevant to the subject at hand.

 

[lem34]

@Aryan-B liking posts calling for annihilation of "Wahhabis" (Sunni).

I have been open about my dislike of that harsh version of Islam that is propagated by some.

 

[KingMamba]

@Aryan-B liking posts calling for annihilation of "Wahhabis" (Sunni).

You have way too much time on your hands if you did all that. That doesn't prove anything though I would have liked that comment as well just for the Zionist part and my grandparents are Wahabbi.

 

[lem34]

No but you in fact have created a plethora of threads centering around it. Since this thread was started by YOu it is only relevant to the subject at hand.

sadly for you your leaders sectarianism and Zionism are becoming intertwined

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

I am Sunni. Please do read. But please read in the context it was stated. Even on this thread I have emailed a Palestinian whose position is that Israel has no right to exist to explain the Palestinian side. Not only that I have posted her article which is the most powerful post in support of Palestinians on this thread.

I am trying hard to be polite here, but you are the biggest dishonest person I have EVER met in this forum. Tell me, how many times have you said that Israel has no right to exist? tell me how many times? I remember the posts but it will take a long time to find them. But I will find them and post them here if you insist to lie no matter how long it would take.

sadly for you your leaders sectarianism and Zionism are becoming intertwined

OKAY, I will find and post them here, I am sick of your lies.

 

[opz]

some people here makes me feel nausea , when someone says he is a muslim but does not pray does this mean he is a muslim !?

such as the person who says i am a sunni, but attacking the Sunni in 90% of her posts

. .

and something important , i don't care if u sunni or shia or even agnostic , but stay away from arabs

 

[lem34]

Here are my credentials I posted this thread in support of Palestinians in Oct 2011

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/151972-saudi-arabia-zionism-peace-palestinian-cause.html

 

[Armstrong]

Only on occasion have I called someone A-Rab. That was in response to being called Aran or Iran B and that was earlier at frustration at being called similar

Good - I respect that and I Thank You for that, Brother ! But what I'd like to impress upon you is that if these Arabs come across as being 'self-protective - whether its their Leaders, their Countries or their Ethnicities', it isn't because the think that 'King Hussein can't do no wrong' or that 'Saudi Arabia is God's own country and hence infallible', its because of what these guys have been exposed to ! Just the other day on a separate thread another guy mentioned doing something obscene and unnatural with a 'Camel' and 'Female Infanticide as being part of Arab Culture' just to score a few points against them. And no this was not an isolated example; I've been here long enough to see racist posts going from an 'implied' assertion to the occasional 'explicit' one where their ethnicity, their culture, their history and their mental capabilities have been ridiculed in the most shameful of ways.

Keeping that in mind you tell me when the next time a joke is cracked against their 'country', an assertion thrown at them or even something is said in jest about them, are they going to act as model gentlemen or are they going to return the favor in kind ? Having said that I can't really quote a single post made by either BlackEagle or Mosa, in this thread, in which either of them spoke ill about Pakistan and Pakistanis, can you ?

Not at all these Sauds and Jordanians come on here and on numerous occasions celebrated and are appreciative of their treacherous leaders

See the above ! And even if you disagree with the policies of their Leaders consider one of two things :

1) Not everyone might have a similar stance as you and I ! I don't agree with them on Syria, or on Iran or on Libya, but they reserve the right to hold that opinion and to think that their Government is correct in pursuing the policies that they are. If one does that without bringing in 'treacherous leaders' or 'being in bed with Israel or America', one might actually end up having a decent conversation with them. You can ask BlackEagle on what my view on Gaddafi were and what his views on the man are, we exchanged a couple of posts on the subject and I can't even remember him trying to impose his view on me, let alone actually attacking me !

Or you can look at it a bit differently : 2) There are a couple of MQM fan-boys here on PDF who think that Altaf Hussein is in the right and that the MQM is the victim here; naturally I disagree with them strongly but damn me for calling them 'treacherous' never mind actually saying half the things that I've seen a couple of Pakistani PDFers doing.



So please a little 'empathy' and a little 'political correctness', if you will, may do wonders for us in having a good, meaningful conversation with them !

 

[Canaan]

Canaan, welcome back Sir.

Please could you advise or give us your opinion in that case what is the duty from an Islamic point of view of the public if the leaders of a Muslim country take it upon themselves to recognise the colonial entity or be complicit with it??

Should the people whose govts are complicit with the Zionist entity still praise and defend their leaderships? Because that is what all the Sauds and Jordanian on the forum do.

I have in the past been attacked viciously and called a racist by these same members for calling their leaders imbeciles and traitors

I also could not help but notice that you commented on the behaviour of a Pakistani but chose not to mention the behaviour evident on this thread of Arabs on here who have managed to alienate and convince one person who was pro Palestinian to be pro Zionist and others to actually question our support of Arabs and or Palestinians. IMO a great disservice to the Palestinian cause

I say this as someone who in the past has been virulently anti Zionist and who has put up threads here comparing Zionism Nazism and Hindutva and finding common ground in them.

You will also notice in contrast to Arabs comments from Israelis on here on this thread that they come over as rational and logic and who will without insulting without demanding without making abusive ad hominem attacks have made some what appear to be valid points.

Thank you sir, good to be back

I am in no position to discuss the theological jurisdriction behind these principles, as i am not educated or knowledgable enough in this field, i would advice you to seek the correct sources for this. I can give you my personal oppinion though, which is that the public should speak up about injustice, as failing to do so would make you an accomplice or at least an accessory. But muslim scholars argue that it is forbidden to seek the help of outsiders read non-muslims to force a change. It is entirely an internal matter among muslims themselves.
Getting back to your question, i will not get into the matter of judging members or taking sides, i hope you understand that. I would instead advise all members to downplay any nationalist or Ethnic/racial supremacist beliefs as they are of no use. We are not judged by our Citizenship or race but our actions. Our loyalty should be with God and religion firstly, then our people, and finally if the ruler is just with him/her. Never defend unjustice or wrongdoing. When you are wrong say you are wrong and own it like a man.

Unfortunately, not a single islamic nation or ruler today is living up to their responsibilities of protecting muslims and developing our lands, instead they are all accomplices to this, there is no reason to single out anyone, they are all wrong, the saudi leadership, the jordanian leadership, the pakistani, the palestinian, everybody! Just look at the state of our nations.

I singled out hyperion because of his consistent use of a racist term.
It's equally wrong though when others do it, never doubt that.

 

[lem34]

This is not called "credentials", this is hypocrisy at it's best. You are nothing to support Palestine or not. Who the hell cares about your little humble opinion? Arabs don't look at you man if they see you. Be grateful we give you some of our precious time. LOOK AT YOURSELF...

This is exactly what I mean what do you hope to achieve by these insults. Do you not realise they say the pen is mightier than the sword. Neither of us have a sword here lol

I am trying hard to be polite here, but you are the biggest dishonest person I have EVER met in this forum. Tell me, how many times have you said that Israel has no right to exist? tell me how many times? I remember the posts but it will take a long time to find them. But I will find them and post them here if you insist to lie no matter how long it would take.



OKAY, I will find and post them here, I am sick of your lies.

That is a contradiction in terms on the one hand you call me a liar and then you say you are trying to be polite.

The only thing I expect from you is to bring here posts of mine take them out of context in the hope you trash me. But do you not see even if I am the devil incarnate insulting me does not add anything to any argument and or discussion you may wish to have

some people here makes me feel nausea , when someone says he is a muslim but does not pray does this mean he is a muslim !?

such as the person who says i am a sunni, but attacking the Sunni in 90% of her posts

. .

and something important , i don't care if u sunni or shia or even agnostic , but stay away from arabs

So now you see this another thing that is common in you and some of your friends you wish to take God's role and start judging us??

 

[Armstrong]

I think it is clear the Saudis are in bed with Americans that is beyond doubt. AIPAC controls American foreign policy. Tel Aviv dictates to AIPAC. Please join up the dots

Mate, for godsake show me the evidence that the 'Saudis are in bed with Americans' ? Do their interest converge - yes ! Do they have a strategic relationship of a sorts - yes ! But so does South Korea, so do Turkey, Germany, France etc.

Does that make them American puppets - No ! If they were, the Americans after exerting all the pressure on Saudi Arabia in the world couldn't get them to increase their oil production to bring the prices down and that comes from some very reliable economists that I've been hearing over the past year or so ! They couldn't even get the Saudis to increase oil-production to off-set the losses that the Europeans have been suffering because of sanctions on Iran !

Does the AIPAC control American Foreign Policy ? Dunno...but I've heard some very credible people asserting as such and I've heard about the 'Israel Lobby' for years. But even if I were to take that on its 'face-value'....so ? Have the managed to get Saudi Arabia to recognize Israel ? Doing so could have been, if sold properly, a massive boost to Israel's credibility because many in the Muslim World look towards Saudi Arabia and in particular the religious clergy in and around Medina and Mecca command a lot of respect - surely this, if sold properly, could have had a softening stance towards Israel in the Muslim World. Why didn't they ?
Otherwise they could have also had KSA remain 'shut-up' on every one of Israel's adventures whether its in Gaza or Lebanon ! And yet they couldn't ? Why is that ?
Heck, if nothing else, they could have had the Saudis use their soft-influence through the many Mosques and Islamic Centres that KSA operates to bring about a less acrimonious position (with respect to Israel) by the Muslims by and large in the Muslim World ! And they couldn't ! Why...oh why ?

In fact if we're speculating we could probably come up with a thousand and one things that Israel could have benefited, materially, from and could used KSA to bring about their realization ! And yet they couldn't....why ?

 

[lem34]

Thank you sir, good to be back


Unfortunately, not a single islamic nation or ruler today is living up to their responsibilities of protecting muslims and developing our lands, instead they are all accomplices to this, there is no reason to single out anyone, they are all wrong, the saudi leadership, the jordanian leadership, the pakistani, the palestinian, everybody! Just look at the state of our nations.

.

thank you. I an critical of the traitors we have in Islamabad that are called our leaders. I am also critical of Saudi leaders. I see no difference in their corrupt practices. I have to go now as it is late here but I look forward to more Palestinians coming and giving their point of view. I do not ask you to take any side but see how some like me who have in the past been anti Zionist have been forced by some Sauds and one Jordanian's taunts and insults and irrational position of being critical of Israel but at the same time supportive of their leaders who support Israel to look at what in the past has been blind loyalty to the Palestinian cause. A cause they have not served well.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Ok A-rab? I do not not bring you into it. In fact if your read the OP I did not address it to you or your kin. We as Pakistanis will discuss what is in Pakistan's best interest and we will bring whose name we want to in it if it is relevant.

Who do you think you are that you have some special entitlement that entitles you to tell us how to conduct our discussions?

Now shoo away

Iran-B, Your not racist at all and You have never been. You are mistaken if you think we look at you as a Pakistani.