Israel and a Solution to Its Conflict

[nirreich]

Does U.N. recognize Israel? Of course.

How many countries in the world indeed recognize Israel??? Israel maintains diplomatic relations with 161 countries.

You want Israel gone???

There is no need to talk tough. China won't support any actions that create threats against Israel's existence. I really pity those nuts who talk tough against Israel day in and day out. Has any part of your tough talk been realized??? Besides becoming laughing stocks of the world, such tough talk means nothing.

Check CCTV's program and Hunan TV's popular program related to Israel. Chinese are quite positive towards Jewish people.

Israel - Dream of the future

(starting at around 9:00 minute, News official from Israel)

You can check how Israel was introduced in China media and how audience showed him our warm welcome.

CCTV is China most important TV station.

Hunan TV's 天天向上 (day day up) is the top program within China.

Your approach is quite refreshing and even surprising - I did not imagine that someone from China would sympathise with Israel's concerns. I do not agree to all of your views, however I am happy for your participation in the discussion.

 

[ephone]

The existence of Israel is the fact no matter how convoluted the conflicts may be now or historically.

Hamas and Iran's idiotic president are just totally nuts. If they do not want to recognize Israel, that is their problems.

For those tough talking nut-cases here, if you want Israel gone, ask those 161 countries who recognize Israel first whether they agree with you. Your country may not recognize Israel. Well, does Israel give a damn about that???

You want peace??? If you really want peace, sit down and talk. Erasing Israel from earth is not an option. Before the negotiation, you have to recognize the existence of Israel. Otherwise, there is no need to talk at all. You may disagree how many lands Israel should occupy and that is understandable.

Moreover, as history develops till today, the best option is to go back to 1967 borders to divide the two states and divide Jerusalem between the two states.

Your approach is quite refreshing and even surprising - I did not imagine that someone from China would sympathise with Israel's concerns. I do not agree to all of your views, however I am happy for your participation in the discussion.

 

[ephone]

U.N. indeed pass resolutions condemning Israel. That is true.

However, U.N. has NEVER passed anything that means "erasing Israel from earth".

If Israel is willing to talk peace with you and go back to its 1967 border to set up the two-state solutions, what is your problem then?

Want them gone? That is absolutely impossible.

We stand for what is right and just without caring about you or your world which revolve around USA. Read this with open eyes

The UN has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other states combined

List of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ephone]

What does it have anything to do with this topic???

 

[ephone]

Chinese people are always quite positive towards Jewish people due to many similarities between the two races.

In the past, China has protected hundreds of thousand Jewish people within her land. When U.S.S.R. established, hundreds of thousand Jewish Russians fled to northeast China to escape the persecution of communists U.S.S.R. Shanghai has also hosted a great number of Jewish refuges escaping from Hilter's annihilation. During Shanghai's Japs occupation during world war II, Chinese have given food to Jewish people there even they own have suffered starvation. It is just Chinese nature to protect the weak.

For example, after world war II, a lot of Japanese children were discarded within China. Many Chinese families adopted those Japanese children even though many Chinese families have members being killed by Japanese army. To protect those children from being discriminated, their adopted families kept the secret from them. When China and Japan normalized relationship during the 70s, their parents told them the truth, many Japanese children chose to go back to Japan, while some of them chose to stay with adopted parents. Ironically, those Japanese children who chose to go back to Japan were systematically discriminated not only by Jap government but also their own families in Japan. Now you see how different the two countries: China v.s. Japan.

Ehud Olmert was born in Harbin, China. Many later high-rank officials in Israel has either stayed in China to avoid persecution or was born there.

Later, majority migrated back to Israel after it was founded.

Historically, Chinese people have never persecuted Jewish people or participated in any such activities systematically since most of such persecutions are religiously based on bible. On the contrary, China is not a country based on christian faith at all.

Your approach is quite refreshing and even surprising - I did not imagine that someone from China would sympathise with Israel's concerns. I do not agree to all of your views, however I am happy for your participation in the discussion.

 

[nirreich]

Chinese people are always quite positive towards Jewish people due to many similarities between the two races.

In the past, China has protected hundreds of thousand Jewish people within her land. When U.S.S.R. established, hundreds of thousand Jewish Russians fled to northeast China to escape the persecution of communists U.S.S.R. Shanghai has also hosted a great number of Jewish refuges escaping from Hilter's annihilation. During Shanghai's Japs occupation during world war II, Chinese have given food to Jewish people there even they own have suffered starvation. It is just Chinese nature to protect the weak.

For example, after world war II, a lot of Japanese children were discarded within China. Many Chinese families adopted those Japanese children even though many Chinese families have members being killed by Japanese army. To protect those children from being discriminated, their adopted families kept the secret from them. When China and Japan normalized relationship during the 70s, their parents told them the truth, many Japanese children chose to go back to Japan, while some of them chose to stay with adopted parents. Ironically, those Japanese children who chose to go back to Japan were systematically discriminated not only by Jap government but also their own families in Japan. Now you see how different the two countries: China v.s. Japan.

Ehud Olmert was born in Harbin, China. Many later high-rank officials in Israel has either stayed in China to avoid persecution or was born there.

Later, majority migrated back to Israel after it was founded.

Historically, Chinese people have never persecuted Jewish people or participated in any such activities systematically since most of such persecutions are religiously based on bible. On the contrary, China is not a country based on christian faith at all.

This is not the subject of this thread, but unlike the sentiments you presented towards the Jewish people, China's official policy was always were and still is pro-Arab. China always voted according to Arabs' interests. Furthermore, it has been defending Iran (together with Russia) in the UN Security Council from much more severe sanctions due to its nuclear programme development. Fortunately, until recently China did not carry much weight in the Middle East (comparing to the US and EU), however that would probably change and it could be a problem for Israel.

 

[ephone]

It is just for OIL for iran's vote. However, China has relaxed on Iran's sanction already. I think China government definitely has informed Iran what China thinks already.

About mid-east, it is true China was pro-Arab due to historical reasons during communist mao's era. I do think China votes more carefully now. BTW, China and Israel established relationship less than 20 years ago. Due to U.S.'s manipulation, the relationship between the two is not always smooth.

Most important of all, China recognizes Israel and we will never vote for anything that hurts Israel's fundamental existence. In addition, we despise Hamas and I bet it hates us as well. Isn't it the distant cousin of OBL?

This is not the subject of this thread, but unlike the sentiments you presented towards the Jewish people, China's official policy was always were and still is pro-Arab. China always voted according to Arabs' interests. Furthermore, it has been defending Iran (together with Russia) in the UN Security Council from much more severe sanctions due to its nuclear programme development. Fortunately, until recently China did not carry much weight in the Middle East (comparing to the US and EU), however that would probably change and it could be a problem for Israel.

 

[nirreich]

It is just for OIL for iran's vote. However, China has relaxed on Iran's sanction already. I think China government definitely has informed Iran what China thinks already.

About mid-east, it is true China was pro-Arab due to historical reasons during communist mao's era. I do think China votes more carefully now. BTW, China and Israel established relationship less than 20 years ago. Due to U.S.'s manipulation, the relationship between the two is not always smooth.

Most important of all, China recognizes Israel and we will never vote for anything that hurts Israel's fundamental existence. In addition, we despise Hamas and I bet it hates us as well. Isn't it the distant cousin of OBL?

Although I would like to accept your evaluation, I tend to believe that for China what matters regarding Israel is its close relations with the US, and this factor would continue to shape its approach towards the conflict. China does not want an influencing America in the ME, so it is not interested in a strong Israel. Of course, I do not question China's commitment to the existence of Israel, although it might be supportive to the Palestinians' demand for 'the right of return'.

BTW, Israel was among the first countries to recognise the PRC in 1949, long before any other Western country and even several Arab countries. However, full diplomatic relations were established only in 1992.

 

[ephone]

Well, mistakes have been made in the past.

U.S. chose to recognize PRC after KMT lost the mainland and fled to Taiwan.

However, Mao, due to his ideology, sent U.S. ambassador to China packing. Otherwise, the normalization between U.S. and China should have been as earlier as 1949. There would not be any Taiwan problem either.

So history does play tricks.

I think China supports the two-state solution and that is it. China won't support any further aggression by those Arabs.

It is China's national interest to have a normal relationship with Israel.

Although I would like to accept your evaluation, I tend to believe that for China what matters regarding Israel is its close relations with the US, and this factor would continue to shape its approach towards the conflict. China does not want an influencing America in the ME, so it is not interested in a strong Israel. Of course, I do not question China's commitment to the existence of Israel, although it might be supportive to the Palestinians' demand for 'the right of return'.

BTW, Israel was among the first countries to recognise the PRC in 1949, long before any other Western country and even several Arab countries. However, full diplomatic relations were established only in 1992.

 

[modern_newton]

Lets make a deal: convince Hamas to stop all terror attacks against Israel and arming itself with rockets and explosives, recognise Israel and agree to live with it peacefully and I guarantee that Israel would stop all its military activities against Hamas

The Palestinians cannot have justice like no other nation in the world received justice, they were all have been compromised one way or another, and Jews more than any other nation. The Palestinians should have long ago accept reality and settle for their own state living side by side with a Jewish state. Continue playing the victim and not taking responsibility for their mistakes and not holding their fate in their own hands in a constructive manner would bring them nowhere and only prolong their suffering. If they agreed in 1947 for the UN resolution 181 they could have their own state on 45% of the territory, If they agreed to a state after 1967 war they could have a state on 26% of the territory, now they would receive less and with more restrictions. If they miss this opportunity too they are gambling on their fate as a nation and could end up with nothing.

You are naive if you don't know why Hamas started all this resistance against the oppression of Israel. Israel violated the rights of Palestinians to established the state for themselves. They expelled Palestinians from their native home land to make settlement for Jews which was injustice and you said they should face the reality then this is the bitter reality which they are facing. Just because Christians were not fair with Jews don't give you this right to exploit and oppress Palestinians. What was the faults of Palestinians Arab ? Why they were expelled from their homes? We don't hate Israel because most of them are Jews but we hate Israel because they did oppress the right of Palestinians.

"Allah does not forbid you, with regard to those who do not fight you on account of your religion nor drive you out of your homes, to treat them with goodness and to be just to them; truly, Allah loves those who are just. Indeed, Allah forbids you (only) with regard to those who fight you on account of religion and drive you out of your homes and assist (others) in driving you out, that you turn to them (in friendship); and whoever turns to them (in friendship), they are wrongdoers".

Quran 60:8-9.


The Holy Quran is very clear on the rules on dealing with non Muslims: fight those who fight you on account of religion or chase you away from your homes. Kindness to non Muslims is not forbidden and all non Muslims are not enemies of Islam as some terrorists would make one believe. In fact certain non Muslims, Jews and Christians, are known as People of the Book and possess a relationship of mercy and spiritual kinship with Muslims

There are two key issues that underlie a solution the crisis: did the Israelis chase the Palestinians out of their homes? Does the Israeli Government fight Muslims based on their religion or single out the criminal minded? The answer to these questions lies in the history of the conflict.

The Palestinians living in Israel as its citizens enjoy equal rights to to the Jews and have more political freedoms than the Pakistani people and most of the people in Arab countries.

Palestinians living in Israel known as internally displaced Palestinians (IDPs) and also referred as Present absentees and they are not permitted to live in the homes they were expelled from even if they can prove that they own it. Secondly, how many Palestinian nationality holders are serving in IDF( Israel defence forces). Many Palestinians living in Israel have this feeling that their state is at war against their nation

While formally equal according to Israeli law, a number of official sources acknowledge that Arab citizens of Israel experience discrimination in many aspects of life. Israeli High Court Justice (Ret.) Theodor Or wrote in The Report by the State Commission of Inquiry into the Events of October 2000:
The Arab citizens of Israel live in a reality in which they experience discrimination as Arabs. This inequality has been documented in a large number of professional surveys and studies, has been confirmed in court judgments and government resolutions, and has also found expression in reports by the state comptroller and in other official documents. Although the Jewish majority’s awareness of this discrimination is often quite low, it plays a central role in the sensibilities and attitudes of Arab citizens. This discrimination is widely accepted, both within the Arab sector and outside it, and by official assessments, as a chief cause of agitation
According to The Guardian, in 2006 just 5% of civil servants were Arabs, many of them hired to deal with other Arabs, despite the fact that Arab citizens of Israel comprise 20% of the population.

The Guardian reports that in the 2002 budget, Israel's health ministry allocated Arab communities less than 0.6% of its budget for healthcare facility development

In 2001, Human Rights Watch described government-run Arab schools as "a world apart from government-run Jewish schools." The report found striking differences in virtually every aspect of the education system

 

[modern_newton]

Well, mistakes have been made in the past.

U.S. chose to recognize PRC after KMT lost the mainland and fled to Taiwan.

However, Mao, due to his ideology, sent U.S. ambassador to China packing. Otherwise, the normalization between U.S. and China should have been as earlier as 1949. There would not be any Taiwan problem either.

So history does play tricks.

I think China supports the two-state solution and that is it. China won't support any further aggression by those Arabs.

It is China's national interest to have a normal relationship with Israel.

Let me remind you MR ephone, this topic is not about diplomatic relationship between China and Israel , so don't divert the topic and secondly aggression was and is from Israel side from the day they started to destroys and expelled the Palestinian from their homes for settlement of Jews

 

[ephone]

Let me remind you that chanting day in and day out to erase Israel from earth won't help in peace in middle east.

The only solution in mid-east is to have the two-state solution.

Total return of Palestinian people is impossible. That part of land has to be divided between the two states.

I think you had better use your energy reminding me to remind those nut-cases who want to destroy Israel in their dirty dreams.

If you want peace, China is on your side. If you want to destroy Israel, China is not on your side. As simple as that.

Let me remind you MR ephone, this topic is not about diplomatic relationship between China and Israel , so don't divert the topic and secondly aggression was and is from Israel side from the day they started to destroys and expelled the Palestinian from their homes for settlement of Jews

 

[nirreich]

You are naive if you don't know why Hamas started all this resistance against the oppression of Israel. Israel violated the rights of Palestinians to established the state for themselves. They expelled Palestinians from their native home land to make settlement for Jews which was injustice and you said they should face the reality then this is the bitter reality which they are facing. Just because Christians were not fair with Jews don't give you this right to exploit and oppress Palestinians. What was the faults of Palestinians Arab ? Why they were expelled from their homes? We don't hate Israel because most of them are Jews but we hate Israel because they did oppress the right of Palestinians.

"Allah does not forbid you, with regard to those who do not fight you on account of your religion nor drive you out of your homes, to treat them with goodness and to be just to them; truly, Allah loves those who are just. Indeed, Allah forbids you (only) with regard to those who fight you on account of religion and drive you out of your homes and assist (others) in driving you out, that you turn to them (in friendship); and whoever turns to them (in friendship), they are wrongdoers".

Quran 60:8-9.


The Holy Quran is very clear on the rules on dealing with non Muslims: fight those who fight you on account of religion or chase you away from your homes. Kindness to non Muslims is not forbidden and all non Muslims are not enemies of Islam as some terrorists would make one believe. In fact certain non Muslims, Jews and Christians, are known as People of the Book and possess a relationship of mercy and spiritual kinship with Muslims

There are two key issues that underlie a solution the crisis: did the Israelis chase the Palestinians out of their homes? Does the Israeli Government fight Muslims based on their religion or single out the criminal minded? The answer to these questions lies in the history of the conflict.

The answer to your questions is quite clear:

Hamas does not fight for an independent Palestinian state but for the destruction of Israel. Israel expressed its readiness for a Palestinian state living side by side in peace with a Jewish state. Hamas does not hide its intentions to destroy Israel and create a religious Muslim state on the entire territory which is according to its ideology a Muslim Land (Waqf?). Hamas is a barbaric terror organisation which has an anti-Semite charter, its got nothing to do with some kind of agreement for self-determination for the Palestinians.

During the 1947-48 war which was initiated by the Palestinians who rejected the UN partition plan (181 resolution), Israel was obliged to defend itself from their murderous attacks against Jewish communities. One day after the end of the British mandate, the Arab countries invaded the disputed territory. The Palestinians and the Arab nation were very clear in their intentions: destroy the Jewish state. As a result they left not even a single Jewish village in the territories they occupied during that war.

In the territory which was seized by Israel the Palestinians who chose not to flee were not deported, in most instances (there were some minor incidents of deportation by the Israeli armed forces and after battles against those villages/towns). Most of the Palestinians just fled without any encouragement of Israel: probably most of them because they were in the middle of the battle zone (like in other regions) and some decided to leave under the instructions of their leaders who were more troubled in de-legitimise the Jewish state than protecting their own people. As I said, although the Palestinians initiated the war in order to destroy Israel, the one who chose to stay received Israeli nationality with all the rights. They were under Martial rule for several years but for a shorter period than the people of Pakistan!

Regarding your second question, Israel never single out Muslims, it gave them citizenship and full rights and they have their own Palestinian Parliament members in the Knesset. Unlike the treatment of the Arabs to Jewish sacred places in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, Israel protected the holy sites of all religions, and allowed access to all believers. Arabic is an official language in Israel.

Palestinians living in Israel known as internally displaced Palestinians (IDPs) and also referred as Present absentees and they are not permitted to live in the homes they were expelled from even if they can prove that they own it. Secondly, how many Palestinian nationality holders are serving in IDF( Israel defence forces). Many Palestinians living in Israel have this feeling that their state is at war against their nation

While formally equal according to Israeli law, a number of official sources acknowledge that Arab citizens of Israel experience discrimination in many aspects of life. Israeli High Court Justice (Ret.) Theodor Or wrote in The Report by the State Commission of Inquiry into the Events of October 2000:
The Arab citizens of Israel live in a reality in which they experience discrimination as Arabs. This inequality has been documented in a large number of professional surveys and studies, has been confirmed in court judgments and government resolutions, and has also found expression in reports by the state comptroller and in other official documents. Although the Jewish majority’s awareness of this discrimination is often quite low, it plays a central role in the sensibilities and attitudes of Arab citizens. This discrimination is widely accepted, both within the Arab sector and outside it, and by official assessments, as a chief cause of agitation
According to The Guardian, in 2006 just 5% of civil servants were Arabs, many of them hired to deal with other Arabs, despite the fact that Arab citizens of Israel comprise 20% of the population.

The Guardian reports that in the 2002 budget, Israel's health ministry allocated Arab communities less than 0.6% of its budget for healthcare facility development

In 2001, Human Rights Watch described government-run Arab schools as "a world apart from government-run Jewish schools." The report found striking differences in virtually every aspect of the education system

The Israeli Palestinians do not want to serve in the military (except of a minority), and nobody force them to do that. There is no more an official discrimination against Israeli Palestinians and they have better life conditions and more political freedom than in any Arab country or Pakistan. There is still a gap in the social conditions between Jews and Israeli Palestinians but it is always narrowing. Furthermore, the main factor that explain this gap and their lower economic and social conditions in their social behaviour: Most of the women in Muslim families do not work and they have bigger families than the Jews. On the other hand, Christian Palestinians families are smaller and both parents usually work and their life conditions are almost equal to the Jews. And the state does not grant any preferences to Christians. most of the Muslims are under the poverty line from the same reasons as families of ultra-religious Jews: big families and only a single parent has a job (in their case it is the woman).

Significant part of the problem with the budget allocated for Israeli Palestinian settlements is the corruption and their reluctant to collect local taxes for operating the services of the local council.

furthermore, like the Palestinians in the pre-1967 territories, most of the political leadership and elites of the Israeli-Palestinians openly undermine the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. Usually they do not turn to violent, although more among them assist terror organisations, but they support anyone who is the enemy of Israel - not just the PLO or Hamas which are Palestinians, bot also Hiabuallha in Lebanon and Syria. Still, they rights are being preserved although they behave like a fifth column. Would the government of Pakistan and its security agencies tolerate a minority who will constantly undermine its existence, would they be having representatives in the National Assembly where they could speak about the destruction of Pakistan? Would someone in Pakistan accept a minority which is openly support India and the idea of Pakistan's annexation into India?

We both know the answer to the above questions...

 

[modern_newton]

remind those nut-cases who want to destroy Israel in their dirty dreams.

If you want peace, China is on your side. If you want to destroy Israel, China is not on your side. As simple as that.

Justice prevail peace. Those who wish to destroy Israel they are the ones who got destroyed by the Israel. World know how jews destroyed Palestinians to secure a home land for themselves. Jews started this process of destruction with its aggressive and oppressive policies and Hamas is just a tiny part of this process

 

[modern_newton]

The answer to your questions is quite clear:
Hamas does not fight for an independent Palestinian state but for the destruction of Israel. .

You are not getting the point. Point of Hamas is that independent state of Israel formed after they expelled Palestinian from their native land so they are trying to regain these lands which been taken from Palestinians and given to Jews who came from different part of world to make settlement in land where peoples are living already . What would you do if Britain inavde Israel and expelled Jews from Israel and give it to Palestinians? Would you be fine with it as long as Britain give asylum and nationality to few Jews? Will giving nationality to some Jews justify their invasion? may be you will fight for what have been taken from you illegally