Israel and a Solution to Its Conflict

[ephone]

Well, who are the current owners of those Palestinians' (now refuges) houses?

If most of those Palestinians chose to stay, are those millions of Palestinian refuges coming from Mars?

Deserted homes? Well, deserted homes also have their owners. The owners may pack to leave temporarily for safety. Legally, those are the owners's houses and they should be able to be back to claim their houses.

Anyway, I have to say there is no need for Israeli to argue this matter. The more you argue, the less your argument is convincing. We all know that Israel was found by U.K.'s intervention and later Israel won out in the conflicts with those resentful Arabs to grab more lands. The only justification is that Israel is way more powerful than those Arabs.

If those Arabs want peace, they have to face the reality.

As I said, most of the Palestinians fled beacause they were in the battle zone or under the instructions of their leaders. The one who did not fled, most of them, continued to live in their homes. That does not mean there not any deportations -there were,by both sides.

The Palestinians refugees cannot come back because Israel received more than a million Jewes in 1949-1950 who were forced to flee from Arab countries. Most of them were hosed in the deserted homes of the refugees. Futhermore, Israel had to receive hundred of thousands of Holocust survivors.

 

[nirreich]

Well, who are the current owners of those Palestinians' (now refuges) houses?

If most of those Palestinians chose to stay, are those millions of Palestinian refuges coming from Mars?

Deserted homes? Well, deserted homes also have their owners. The owners may pack to leave temporarily for safety. Legally, those are the owners's houses and they should be able to be back to claim their houses.

Anyway, I have to say there is no need for Israeli to argue this matter. The more you argue, the less your argument is convincing. We all know that Israel was found by U.K.'s intervention and later Israel won out in the conflicts with those resentful Arabs to grab more lands. The only justification is that Israel is way more powerful than those Arabs.

If those Arabs want peace, they have to face the reality.

When wars broke, there are refugees and sometimes they are not allowed to return (like the millions of refugees in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1947-1948 and there are other examples). In our case, the Palestinians declared on their intention to destroy Israel in 1947, so there is no reason we should allow a hostile population to enter our borders with a clear intent to try to destroy it again.

Again, a minority of the Palestinians (around 120,000 out of 1.2 million) did not leave and remain in their homes until this very day. Those who became refugees did that out of fear from the battles and under the instructions of their leadership. A minority of them was deported by Israel's forces, while Jews were deported from Arab occupied territories, and later Most of the Jews in Arab countries had to leave everything and immigrate to Israel. They too cannot go back to their homes and did not receive any compensation for their property.

I do not have any problem with the moral dimension of the above arguments, and it is a fairly balanced.

 

[nirreich]

You know you guys will never reach at any solution until you realize that Israel violated the rights of Palestinians. All Jews here are trying to prove themselves completely innocent while putting all blame on opposite side. Its true that nationalism make us blind

You only see the terrorism of Hamas but i do see the terrorism of Israel as well which killed more innocent peoples, women and children. Israel used much more destructive and advanced weapons for terrorism. If Hamas killed one innocent people in Israel then Israel killed 100 Palestinians with their advance missiles

Why you don't realize that Hamas did not appear in a total vacuum, but rather as a reaction to the continued, long standing abuse of Palestinians by Israel. If Israel is successful in destroying Hamas, the likelihood is that Hamas would be replaced by even more radical groups. Israel clearly holds the upper hand and most of the cards. Repeatedly, Israeli leaders have reneged on agreements for lasting peace with the Palestinians, so why should Palestinians trust anything that Israel says or does?

until now, you evaded any support in the idea of Israel as a Jewish state. Justice to you is the destruction of the only Jewish state in the world for the creation of the 23 Arab country, and not any compromise which would establish a Palestinian state next to Israel.

You always return to the rights of the Palestinians, although I clearly explained to you that they are to one who compromised their rights with their brutal policy to destroy Israel. You cannot expect Israel to defend the national rights of this people when they have been trying over and over again to destroy it, and are not ready for any compromise.

I do not have any problem to admit from my 'blindness' that Israel did mistakes, one of them was the settlements the middle of the Palestinian population in the pre-1967 territories. However, this is not the issue and their dismantlement would not solve anything because the Palestinians do not aspire for a state in the 1967 border, but want to reopen the 1948 conflict and return the time to November 1947 when they were the majority inside Israel. This is impossible and no sane Israeli government would ever agree to the return of millions of Palestinians who are hostile to the Jews and to the Jewish state and will create a Palestinian majority inside Israel and end it as a Jewish state.

If you are so concerned about the refugees rights (what about the rights of the Indian refugees who fled from Pakistan in 1947???), demand from their Arab hosts to give citizenship and dismantle the refugee camps. The demand for doing justice with the Palestinians on the expense of doing justice with the Jewish people in Israel is hypocritical and has no precedent in the history of mankind.

Hamas was not born on the ground of Israel's terrorism, as you claim. When Hamas was founded in the 1980's the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank had much more better life than in any other period in their history, and under Israel's control! They worked inside Israel, and their income and quality of life got better each year. Hamas was born as a result of the Palestinian tendency for extremism regardless of their living conditions and their rights. Hamas is the continuation of the same phenomena of the barbaric terror attacks of the PLO in the 1970's and 1980's, and the ideology of the SS officer and Nazi leader of the Palestinian national movement in the 1930's and 1940's, Amin al-Hussaini. nowadays it is called Hamas but basically it is the same thing.

As I explained to you, these statistics about civilian casualties are useless and prove nothing. More Palestinians are being killed because Hamas wants exactly that and fight from populated areas, while Israel never has any direct intention to kill civilians. Israel cannot accept firing rockets on its civilians and launching suicide terrorists into its cities and do nothing only because the barbaric operatives of Hamas hide among civilians. No one who kills innocent Israeli civilians or violently try to destroy Israel should have any protection - not in Gaza, not in Syria, not in Dubai, and not even in Pakistan!

 

[WHF]

This is total nonsense... The Mufti of Palestine was no "leader" of the Palestinians (just like Arafat was no leader either)... Its funny how you guys label a traitor as leader and expect everyone to accept that as fools...

There has been a region called Palestine for thousands of years... Its Israel which is the cancer inside the holy land... The only reason why Israel exists is thru the help that Europe and America provides you... on your own you are nothing...

wat on earth makes u feel that only muslims have holy land and non muslims cant stay there, its a common holy land for 3 religions jews,christians and muslims and muslims came lastof them.so if u go by that logic jews have right over the holy lands bfore chritians and muslims..so if some mad A$$ write or asks his followers to clear the jews out of the holy land he did so with pure arrogance and with mad power then, now its ur turn jews have power so face the music or cut off ur bull and learn to live peacefully..

 

[Juice]

Imagine Britian occupied Hindustan in past. would it be fair for them to give the lands of hindustiani to outsider? Would it be fair for outsider to invade hindustan and claim that this land belong to them? Would you blame local hindusnani if outsider were used forced to kick native population out from their houses and occupied their lands . I am sure that you will agree that it was not fair for jews to come from different countries to get settle themselves in place where peoples are already living for thousands years.

The Arabs were in Palestine for the majority of the 19th century. There was no doubt that they were the rulers and owners by association of the land they inhabited. They originally belonged to the Ottoman Empire based in Turkey. But as time went on the Arabs formed a dream of a state they called Palestine. Then a movement formed. Jews began returning in mass numbers due to widespread renewed belief in the value of what they called The Holy Land. They eventually took power and control of the state by force and named it Israe, and in many ways suppressed and opposed the Arabs in the country. This to me is criminal because they had peacefully left and then came back with the express purpose to take over by overpopulation. Many Arabs called this the "Zionist Movement".

There was never a country called Isreal or shown on any atlas until 1947 and UN authorised the birth of the independent Jewish state but not on the scale which it has had since 1967. Israel's continuing occupation of the so called 'Territories' is illegal in international law and the actions of some of its citizens there are an affront to humanity.The world has forgotten the Palestinian people, they view them as animals, meant to be caged, starved and inihilated if they do not obey. How many of the Palestinian suicide bombers were even around before Israel was a state? Almost none of them.

Do you people not know that Isreal was there a long time? Not saying that gives them right to the land now, but anyone versed in history at least knows of the uprising against the Romans (of course they were not independant at that time). LONG before Arab muslims were there. (The Romans removing many Jews is one of the reasons the Jews are so scattered)

 

[WHF]

Not only is it viable... We see it happening that Pakistan takes over India within the next 15 years max inshaAllah...

its better pakistani army distribute poision to all pakistanis before their venture on india..wont even spare PPL HINDING BEHIND ROCKS..sounds familiar rite??

 

[WHF]

Do you people not know that Isreal was there a long time? Not saying that gives them right to the land now, but anyone versed in history at least knows of the uprising against the Romans (of course they were not independant at that time). LONG before Arab muslims were there. (The Romans removing many Jews is one of the reasons the Jews are so scattered)

a particular race from the deserts and their followers think world has started just 1400 years back and hence such ignorance on history.but the saddest part is that they show their ignorance willingly even after knowing all the facts.

---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------

Do you people not know that Isreal was there a long time? Not saying that gives them right to the land now, but anyone versed in history at least knows of the uprising against the Romans (of course they were not independant at that time). LONG before Arab muslims were there. (The Romans removing many Jews is one of the reasons the Jews are so scattered)

a particular race from the deserts and their followers think world has started just 1400 years back and hence such ignorance on history.but the saddest part is that they show their ignorance willingly even after knowing all the facts.

---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:35 PM ----------

Do you people not know that Isreal was there a long time? Not saying that gives them right to the land now, but anyone versed in history at least knows of the uprising against the Romans (of course they were not independant at that time). LONG before Arab muslims were there. (The Romans removing many Jews is one of the reasons the Jews are so scattered)

a particular race from the deserts and their followers think world has started just 1400 years back and hence such ignorance on history.but the saddest part is that they show their ignorance willingly even after knowing all the facts.

 

[Interpreter]

Only the innocent believe that there's a solution.
Jew controlled America hundreds of years ago and then they planned alone to establish a Jewish nation named Isreal.So the conflict is actual a issue that Arab world and Muslim intend to prevent American power elite from doing as they want in Arab but the former failed.
There might be a solution only if America go bust,so far it seems impossible.

 

[nirreich]

Only the innocent believe that there's a solution.
Jew controlled America hundreds of years ago and then they planned alone to establish a Jewish nation named Isreal.So the conflict is actual a issue that Arab world and Muslim intend to prevent American power elite from doing as they want in Arab but the former failed.
There might be a solution only if America go bust,so far it seems impossible.

"Jews" do not control America and definitely did not established Israel - it was established mostly by the Jewish communities of Russia and East Europe.

 

[Interpreter]

"Jews" do not control America and definitely did not established Israel - it was established mostly by the Jewish communities of Russia and East Europe.

Oh!...Why are you so modest and bashful.We all know the truth.

Jews undoubtedly control Amerca.You control most industries and Wall Street of US.

Since Arab accept that their oil are priced in $,of course they have to accept Jews and Israel.Because by then they have lost the power determining themselves.

By the way,many Chinese have a appreciative view on Jews.The good China-Israel relation confirm it.

 

[nirreich]

Oh!...Why are you so modest and bashful.We all know the truth.

Jews undoubtedly control Amerca.You control most industries and Wall Street of US.

Since Arab accept that their oil are priced in $,of course they have to accept Jews and Israel.Because by then they have lost the power determining themselves.

By the way,many Chinese have a appreciative view on Jews.The good China-Israel relation confirm it.

Jews are very successful in the US but as individuals, there is no command and control centre somewhere in mountains of Jerusalem which give them instructions. The Jewish Lobby is very influential in Washington, but as part of the political game.

I am familiar with the respect of the Chinese people to Jews, however PRC has its own interests which usually do not coincide with Israel's wishes.

 

[Infiltrator]

I feel "Israel should agree to the establishment of a Palestinian state alongside the Jewish state" in some manner. The most holiest of cities should be shared or agreements should be made upon how they are controlled.

It's a pretty complicated situation but I support both the Israelis and Palestine's right to exist as equals in that region.

 

[nirreich]

Agreed, side by side, in peace - and not one side on the expense of the other.

 

[RayKalm]

I support a two state solution, Israel should be willing to give Palestinians their own state, and since they will outnumber the Israelis soon, Israel should give them more land.

 

[kalu_miah]

Bumping and old thread, instead of creating a new one.


Arab-Israeli conflict:
Arab

A report by Strategic Foresight Group has estimated the opportunity cost of conflict for the Middle East from 1991-2010 at $12 trillion. The report's opportunity cost calculates the peace GDP of countries in the Middle East by comparing the current GDP to the potential GDP in times of peace. Israel's share is almost $1 trillion, with Iraq and Saudi Arabia having approximately $2.2 and $4.5 trillion, respectively. In other words, had there been peace and cooperation between Israel and Arab League nations since 1991, the average Israeli citizen would be earning over $44,000 instead of $23,000 in 2010.[102]
In terms of the human cost, it is estimated that the conflict has taken 92,000 lives (74,000 military and 18,000 civilian from 1945 to 1995).[1]

Sun Tzu would look at this conflict and laugh. It is my belief the main misunderstanding on the part of Arabs has been not recognizing the fact that because of the history of Jewish people in European lands, the Jewish people are an inseparable part of the Western civilization, essentially Jewish people throughout history have played key roles in it, not to mention have been a victim for most of history, until quite recently. So the state of Israel, as a home for this victimized population, from European lands as well as Arab lands (after 1947), will be under protection of the West, as its very own. So if Arab people want to beat Israel in a military conflict, they would have eclipse the West in military power. For one thing, Arab League only has a population of about 350 million, whereas the size of the West is increasing, as it absorbs more of the former Soviet countries in Eastern Europe. Currently the West has about 1 billion people. Considering the difference in HDI (Human Development Index) in Arab lands and the West, it is not foreseeable that Arabs would at any time be able to eclipse the West in terms of economic power, which translates directly into military power. Even if the Arabs were to team up with the whole of Muslim world, which is about 1.6 billion in population, divided in many states and in different continents, who have little in common other than following a common religion, even then, the Muslims collectively would not be able to match the West in economic or military power for the foreseeable future. So if this is big picture, what should be done to solve this problem?

First thing would be to recognize that this conflict is un-winnable for Arabs or Muslims by military means. So continuation of hostility is only providing opportunity to Israel to grab more lands illegally and also allowing other enemy's of Islam such as Hindu India to team up with Israel and enhance their combined ability to run a world wide campaign of Islamophobia which affects all Muslims negatively and further antagonizes Muslims against Israel and Jewish people. Not only that, it also gives lunatics like OBL and others to take up the cause and create further rift between the West and Muslims.

So my suggestion would be to analyze this situation by some responsible body such as Arab League or OIC and come to some important decisions:

1. Settle the conflict between Israel and Palestinians once and for all, even under unfavorable terms
2. Once the conflict is settled, maintain peace at all cost
3. No more hostility from Arab/Palestinian side
4. Gaza to be integrated with Egyptian economy and West Bank to be integrated with Jordanian economy
5. Ask Jewish groups in the US, Israel and elsewhere to cease their campaign of Islamophobia