Israel ahead of US in race to supply ‘tank-killer’ missiles to India

[Icewolf]

You are right.. Prior to Bajpai (13th Prime minister of India, 1998-2002) India was pro palestine, there were 2 reason for it.
a) India was lean towards Soviet Union
b) The Muslims were in lap of Ruling Party Kongress, Kongress can do any thing to Appease Muslims, anything.

The Equation changed when Hindu freed "Lord Rama birth place from evil hand of Babur", Muslims came out of lap of Kongress and Sit in local party lap, Muslim Vote devided and they became weak.

In 1999 A B Bajpai/Advani/Joshi and team decided to think about Israel (these people are patriots and they don't sell there soul for Muslim votes), The team call J R Jacob (A jew general of Indian Army). J R Jacob is architect of Indo-Israel relation.

The Patriotic Indian don't care what Indian Muslims think about Israel. Now Indian Muslims are devided and they are weak . in Uttar pradesh they vote for Mulla-yam, in Bihar they vote for Lalloo (in short they vote for destructive leaders). IM never vote for development they vote for those who can lick there feet...

Hindutva ki jai!! Shiv Sena ki jai!! Bal Thakeray Zindabad!!! Bola Maharaja Shiva ka jai!!!!

 

[Black Widow]

My Above posts contain strong words, but they are correct I am giving references to support my comments, SO that I dont get infraction or punishment...


West Asia policy hostage to ‘Muslim vote': The Hindu : Mar15 2011

According to Subhash Kapila, the opposition to the establishment of diplomatic relations with Israel during the 1960s and 1970s arose from the Congress Party's desire to appease the Muslims in India: Subhash Kapila : Political Analyst

Sushma Swaraj (Bharatiya Janata Party leader, and leader of opposition of the 15th Lok Sabha) said that Israel is a reliable partner, and that the current government acknowledged it.: S Swaraj : In LS archive

In 2000 Jaswant Singh became the first Indian foreign minister to visit Israel: Fact, Archived in Indo-Israeli team.

In 2003 Ariel Sharon was the first Israeli Prime Minister to visit India. He was welcomed by the center-right wing Bharatiya Janata Party led National Democratic Alliance coalition government of India

Sharon's visit was condemned in leftist and Muslim circles BBC 9 sep 2003

Nearly 100 Muslims were arrested.Students of Aligarh Muslim University demanded that India sever ties with Israel

 

[Android]

Exactly.

Indian Muslims are not obsessed with Arabs as Pakistanis are.

Not exactly
Muslims in India Demand Breaking Ties with Israel - Global Agenda - News - Israel National News
we have our fair share of idiots

 

[Don Jaguar]

Exactly.

Indian Muslims are not obsessed with Arabs as Pakistanis are.

Looks like you have never been to Pakistan.

 

[Safriz]

Looks like you have never been to Pakistan.

he has a vendetta against arabs and muslims in general,so never mind.

 

[sudhir007]

Israel pips US in anti-tank guided missile supply to India | idrw.org

Israel has upstaged the US in the ongoing race to bag the huge deal to supply third-generation anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) to the Indian Army, in a project which could well be worth $1 billion eventually.

Defence ministry sources said the plan to go in for the American FGM-148 Javelin ATGMs has “virtually been shelved” because of Washington’s reluctance to provide full military knowhow – licensed “transfer of technology (ToT)” – to allow India to indigenously manufacture the “tank killers” in large numbers after an initial off-the-shelf purchase.

Instead, the Army has already completed extensive trials of the Israeli ‘Spike’ ATGM, which like Javelin is also a shoulder-launched and fire-and-forget missile, under varied conditions in plains, deserts and mountains. “The staff evaluation is now in progress as the next step in the procurement process,” said a source.

The Javelin imbroglio has once again rekindled long-held fears in the Indian defence establishment about the US not being a reliable long-term supplier of cutting-edge military technology. India also detests American conditions on “intrusive end-user inspections” of weapons sold to its armed forces.

The US has notched up military sales worth over $8 billion to India in the last few years, including mega deals for C-130J ‘Super Hercules’, C-17 Globemaster-III and P-8I maritime patrol aircraft, but they did not involve licensed production in India.

The AGTM project, in contrast, involves ToT since the 1.13-million Army wants to equip all its 356 infantry battalions with the man-portable missiles as an effective counter to Pakistani and Chinese main battle tanks. A bulk of the estimated 2,000 launchers and 24,000 missiles required for this are planned for production by defence PSU Bharat Dynamics (BDL) after getting requisite ToT from the selected foreign vendor.

With General Bikram Singh identifying infantry modernization as a major thrust area, the Army wants to complete the induction of these 2.5-km range advanced ATGMs by the end of the 12th Plan (2017).

At present, infantry units are making do with second-generation Milan (2-km range) and Konkurs (4-km) ATGMs, produced by BDL under licence from French and Russian companies, which are wire-guided and do not have fire-and-forget capabilities.

Overall, the Army has an “authorized holding” for over 81,000 different kinds of ATGMs, which are critical to stem enemy armoured attacks, but does not have even half of that number in its inventory.

A part of the deficiency will be met by the induction of the long-delayed indigenous third-generation Nag ATGMs, which are vehicle and helicopter-mounted, with a 4-km strike range. The Army has already placed an initial order for 443 Nag missiles and 13 Namicas (Nag missile tracked carriers).

If Israel, the second-largest defence supplier to India after Russia, does indeed stitch up the ATGM project, it will be the third major missile programme between the two countries. They are already collaborating in two surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems, under which deliveries are slated to begin soon.

While the DRDO-Israeli Aerospace Industries (IAI) project for long-range-SAM to arm Indian warships is worth Rs 2,606 crore, the medium-range-SAM one for IAF is worth Rs 10,076 crore.

From Heron and Searcher UAVs, Harpy and Harop “killer” drones to Barak anti-missile defence systems and Green Pine radars, Python and Derby air-to-air missiles, Israel notches up military sales to India roughly worth $1 billion every year.

 

[Mercenary]

he has a vendetta against arabs and muslims in general,so never mind.

I have a vendetta against stupid people

 

[KS]

just like any other community they r indian first.

Lets put truth as it is, again there is no one point of view and like any other thing there is a whole spectrum of views regarding this. Many are outspoken against Israel and would want India to cut down all relations, some are against it for obvious reasons but understand the necessity of Indian relationship with Israel and hence view it as a necessary evil, some are against but would not show it, some support it whole heartedly as they can see the benefits behind that and view the problem as a Israeli-Arab problem and not as a Jew-Muslim problem.

Similarly not all among Hindus support Israel as well. There is the leftist view that abhors any relation with Israel, the centrist view that cares for Palestinians but also favors co-op with Israel for their technologies, there is the rightist view that supports Israel because of the shared problems like terrorism, way it deals with terrorists, technologies etc and does not care/hate Palestine and then there is the extreme right wing view that hates Palestine and loves Israel as a role model.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i wonder how israel would feel if we send anti-aircraft ammunition as well as bofors to all of her surrounding neighbours.....not a wise move on their part, but then again business is business -- nothing personal.

by the way, doesnt indian air force already have weaponry that could be used against mechanized armour?

 

[Oldman1]

America should get the message. ToT or nothing. If US continues to protect its technology even in small arms and has intrusive end use verification then, it will lose a lot of business.

I think we got the message from the Russians when they did the same with China. Now they are complaining about losing business. Thats the risk of business. India will develop its own version of the Javelin and no more buying Javelins from U.S. eh?

 

[dee]

81,000 ATGMs omg

 

[KS]

I think we got the message from the Russians when they did the same with China. Now they are complaining about losing business. Thats the risk of business. India will develop its own version of the Javelin and no more buying Javelins from U.S. eh?

The difference which seems to have escaped the US policy makers is India actually respects the IPRs. So to me, if this news is true, US just lost a pretty good deal to the Israelis due to its tight-fisted policies and increased the concerns of many skeptics in the Indian bureaucracy that US is NOT a reliable arms supplier and not worth replacing the Russians with, which might play a role in future arms deals also.

by the way, doesnt indian air force already have weaponry that could be used against mechanized armour?

The first Jaguar DARIN III just took to the skies and one of the most important upgrades was the integration of the CBU-105 sensor fused weapons making it the deadliest ground pounder in IAF today.

i wonder how israel would feel if we send anti-aircraft ammunition as well as bofors to all of her surrounding neighbours

Well your AF pretty much shot down 4 of theirs and sending AA ammunition is nothing biggie in front of that

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

You are right.. Prior to Bajpai (13th Prime minister of India, 1998-2002) India was pro palestine, there were 2 reason for it.
a) India was lean towards Soviet Union
b) The Muslims were in lap of Ruling Party Kongress, Kongress can do any thing to Appease Muslims, anything.

The Equation changed when Hindu freed "Lord Rama birth place from evil hand of Babur", Muslims came out of lap of Kongress and Sit in local party lap, Muslim Vote devided and they became weak.

In 1999 A B Bajpai/Advani/Joshi and team decided to think about Israel (these people are patriots and they don't sell there soul for Muslim votes), The team call J R Jacob (A jew general of Indian Army). J R Jacob is architect of Indo-Israel relation.

The Patriotic Indian don't care what Indian Muslims think about Israel. Now Indian Muslims are devided and they are weak . in Uttar pradesh they vote for Mulla-yam, in Bihar they vote for Lalloo (in short they vote for destructive leaders). IM never vote for development they vote for those who can lick there feet...

Actually u are forgetting about Abdul kalam who was another major factor and team of Vajpayee/Advani. He was a more patriotic Indian.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

I think we got the message from the Russians when they did the same with China. Now they are complaining about losing business. Thats the risk of business. India will develop its own version of the Javelin and no more buying Javelins from U.S. eh?

India have no record of piracy. Every nation competes to sell stuff to India, cos we respect the licence agreement. U cannot simply compare us to China in this regard.
its a loss. Its what i have been saying, US can never be trusted in critical technologies.
Buy C 130 or C 17, Boeing P8i or non critical weapons. But no for Fighter jets or missiles.
Hope this rings a bell in Indian defence establishment. And many US officials who promised ToT must be eating their words.
No disrespect to US though. They have helped us much in many spheres. But simply defence relations cannot go higher. it needs a change in attitude wrt India

 

[Kaniska]

Israel and India are becoming really close partners. How does India explains this to its massive Muslim population? Muslims are against Israel , isn't it?

Simple answer...if any enemy nation attack India and drop a bomb on Indian territory, then that bomb will not be selective enough to differentiate between Hindu Indian or Muslim India,rather it will kill everyone.