Islamophobia [Dedicated Thread]

[QWECXZ]

Can you judge a movie by a few frames from the middle? Selecting, ignoring, or fabricating key facts also leads to the misuse of the "double standard" label.

am i doing so? and haven't you been doing that for decades?

 

[Solomon2]

As long as debate and discussion on some topics are off-limits, then how can you have any assurance that your judgments on these matters is sound and your advocacy well-founded? That your feelings aren't being manipulated as a tool by those in power?

 

[QWECXZ]

As long as debate and discussion on some topics are off-limits, then how can you have any assurance that your judgments on these matters is sound and your advocacy well-founded? That your feelings aren't being manipulated as a tool by those in power?

the same question applies to all of us,even you. doesn't it?
are you saying that all of the things I said are lies and they have never happened? I don't get the point of what you said.
plus, It's not about my feelings. I'm not an emotional person to be honest, all of the things I'm saying are supposed to motivate the free thinker's conscience.

 

[Solomon2]

You're an Iranian. You don't live in a society that currently enforces freedom of speech or expression. Even if the facts presented in debate are true, I doubt you can discover their true context if it disagrees with the view your political masters wish to propagate.

I'm an American. About the only thing off-limit here is child pornography, because it is considered evidence of child abuse. People don't know everything, but hey, for those who make an effort and take an interest there is great intellectual freedom here.

I'd talk more, but must get ready for Shabbat now.

 

[QWECXZ]

You're an Iranian. You don't live in a society that currently enforces freedom of speech or expression. Even if the facts presented in debate are true, I doubt you can discover their true context if it disagrees with the view your political masters wish to propagate.

I'm an American. About the only thing off-limit here is child pornography, because it is considered evidence of child abuse. People don't know everything, but hey, for those who make an effort and take an interest there is great intellectual freedom here.

I'd talk more, but must get ready for Shabbat now.

yes That's exactly What I wanted to make you admit. you just admitted that you've been brainwashed by the streotype to believe all Iranians are ill-informed

yes, you are an american, but you attack those students who protest against the Israeli embassador's speech under the name of law. you are an american but you haven't been taught to respect others and accept all the conditions of human rights. the first article of human rights is about "All people have conscience and they all are well-natured.". you are an american but you don't even believe in what Abraham Lincoln says and you have it as your signature too. let alone your new generation that they call the "Fathers" of the US as "faggots".

american people are still in a trance, maybe they need to hear the snap to get out of this hypnotic state induced by the media. but I'm not sure that you'd like that snap if happened.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Belgium votes to ban burqa in public

BRUSSELS: Belgium became Europe's first country to vote for a ban on the full Islamic veil or burqa, sparking dismay among Muslims and warnings of a dangerous precedent with France set to follow suit.

On Thursday night, barring two abstentions, all 136 legislators of the lower house of the Belgian federal parliament supported a nationwide ban on clothes or veils that do not allow the wearer to be fully identified. But the bill, which makes wearing of the burqa a criminal offence punishable with a fine of $20-34 and/or a jail sentence of up to seven days, will not come into force for weeks and may have to be re-examined if early elections are called as Belgium battles a political crisis.

"We're the first country to spring the locks that have made a good number of women slaves, and we hope to be followed by France, Switzerland, Italy, and the Netherlands; countries that think," said liberal lawmaker Denis Ducarme. The ban will be imposed in streets, public gardens and sports grounds or buildings "meant for public use or to provide services" to the public, according to the text of the bill.

All governing parties and the opposition agreed on the move - most for security reasons linked to the fact that people cannot be recognized while wearing the clothing. They added that the veil was a "walking prison" for women. The bill's chief promoter, Daniel Bacquelaine, said local mayors could suspend the ban during festivities such as Carnival when people traditionally wear costumes, including masks.

The vice-president of the Muslim Executive of Belgium, Isabelle Praile, warned the vote could set a dangerous precedent and pave the way for a crackdown on other symbols of religious expression such as Sikh turbans.

Human rights group Amnesty International too condemned the vote, saying it violated rights to freedom of expression and religion and set a dangerous precedent. The group urged Belgium's Senate to seek the view of its Council of State on the legality of the measure.

In Le Soir newspaper, Michael Privot, an Islamic scholar, said Belgium "now joins Iran and Saudi Arabia in that exclusive but unenviable rare club of countries to impose a dress code in the public domain". He said the three cite "the protection of dignity, or even the freedom, of women to justify the unjustifiable: the restriction of individual freedoms of some of our citizens".

Caroline Sagesser, religious expert at the Universite Libre of Brussels, said existing police regulations forbidding people from wearing masks on the street were quite sufficient to have the same effect. "It's a bit like taking a hammer to kill a fly. Especially since in Belgium there are very, very few women wearing a full veil on public roads. It is a non-problem," she said.

Politicians across Europe have sought to ban veils or headscarves to assuage public concern about a perceived growth of Islamic militancy. France, which has the largest Muslim population in Europe, is also looking towards a ban on wearing veils in public, with the government set to examine a draft bill in May. It could also become law within a few months.

Belgium votes to ban burqa in public - Europe - World - The Times of India

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

looks like a stage is being set to provoke a major war against the Muslim Counteries...This time Europeans will join too...!!!

 

[thebrownguy]

Simple reply. Then do go to Belgium. If you feel a place is not respecting your traditions, avoid going to that place. These europeans can complain that Iran bans wearing a skirt in Public. I am not trolling, just explaining the logic.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Holocaust Denial is a denial of truth

ok Haolocost accepted but can Israel stop making a Haolocost out of Muslims . By killing innocent Muslims Israel is commiting the same ritual..!!!

 

[Parashuram1]

looks like a stage is being set to provoke a major war against the Muslim Counteries...This time Europeans will join too...!!!

Absolute rubbish. If this was the case, things would have been worse. There is no war such as "Europe vs Muslim countries". The world today is too interdependent to wage such geography based wars.

 

[Solomon2]

QWECXZ's words deserve a response, even if he is banned from further comments:

yes That's exactly What I wanted to make you admit. you just admitted that you've been brainwashed by the streotype to believe all Iranians are ill-informed

No, that's not what I wrote at all. Please re-read what I wrote.

...you attack those students who protest against the Israeli embassador's speech under the name of law. you are an american but you haven't been taught to respect others -

We haven't discussed these. So this is a "red herring" - irrelevant topics are presented in order to divert attention from the original issue: the soundness of your judgment.

 

[Solomon2]

ok Haolocost accepted but can Israel stop making a Haolocost out of Muslims . By killing innocent Muslims Israel is commiting the same ritual..!!!

Here is another good example of ignorance and/or denial.

There is no "Israel making a Haolocost out of Muslims". Period. Now imagine that you not only accept that, but are willing to say so in front of other Muslims. Don't you think you'll then be steering your community towards confronting and solving its own problems, rather than seeking to salve its frustrations by stirring up hatred of Jews and other non-Muslims?

 

[fallstuff]

Gentlemen, Europeans couldn't care less whether you are adopting to secular principles or not in your country, which is entirely your call. But Secularism, liberalism and certain tolerance limitations are expected from people who migrate to Western countries and not just Europe; even American countries, since we don't have the rigid principles you have. The migrants have all the freedom to be what they are but not at the cost of others. That's all. While there are some people who are stricken by the loss of their loved ones in terrorist attacks and become hardline anti-Islamic, there are also a lot of people on the opposite end of spectrum from the immigrant Muslim population in Europe who behave as if we are living in their country instead of they living in ours.

This obviously will be resisted by the local population. For once, let us forget the racist radicals and just talk about common people. There are thousands of British Muslims today who live in Britain, get the benefits of being a British and EU citizen and curse and threaten the very nation they live in. Why is that? This is the very thing that European countries want to oppose. Those who are not interested in adopting to European systems, then why stay and create friction? Its a fair game isn't it? Europeans don't come and impose their laws in Middle East or West Asia, do we?

While from the comments that I have heard from numerous members here, the concept of nationalism is perhaps absent in most of your dictionary as Pakistani members here seem to support other countries' citizens as well who share similar faith. This is not the trend in Europe. Each European country is proud of its traditions and as the mainstay of that particular country, people have to respect it and adopt it. Most of the principles of national laws are favourable to people migrants or not and only those who are not favourable, the people in question have to accept and change according to that. A country cannot be changed for the sake of a foreign community deciding to come and reside with Europeans.

This is sheer bullying and unfair. As I said, the cartoons in the beginning of the thread are wrong and I accept. But cultural and demographic bullying is more of a case. Some members have taken their time to post YouTube videos showing how "Islamophobia" is in European continent and how they are the victims. However, these members can find an equal and perhaps greater amount of videos on the exact opposite and how cultural imposition is being done across Europe to accommodate Muslims.

As a fellow member of this forum, I request all the members here to fairly investigate the other side of this coin as well and see this situation in a neutral manner. No phobia is good and discrimination is wrong; but this equally applies to Muslim communities in Europe as well.

This is my humble appeal to those who are moved by these YouTube videos taken by people at will, to look at the other side of the coin before blatantly blaming European systems.

You seem like a self appointed apologist of the European values.
You go the extra mile to be more European than the natives.

As for the British Muslims, you just made it up like the right wing European nuts do. British Muslims can demand and curse all they want under British Law. If the constitution allows, they can run around the block but* naked. Its their right. What part of that you don't understand ? You need to start paying attention to the constitution of the land. It would be wise to start with Swiss Laws.

Only folks with little or selective knowledge of European history would evoke the European Secularism, liberalism and certain tolerance crap.
Its about the law of the land.

Your line about imposing , just drop that. Its been done by the right wings, but never caught wind. The migrants are not threatening anything, you need to get a grip on your paranoia.

The Minerat ban, Burqa ban shows a trend. Even a high school kid would be able to spot it. You need help in that ?

I asked you on a different thread "What would be your response if the Swiss Mineret Law is struck down ? Would you accept that as the defacto Law of the Land ? You never responded.


Your secular values has more holes in them then Swiss Cheese.


P.S On a different note, you are putting your words on someone else mouth. I seriously doubt that other European nations has elected you as their spoke person on this forum.

 

[Kompromat]

In the face of Islamophobia

Anti-Muslim protests defy core American values.
Sean Bonner Last Modified: 29 Aug 2010 13:06

Last Monday, August 23rd, artist Glen E Friedman fueled by frustration hung 9 banners out of an apartment window in downtown Manhattan's Liberty Street. The message being relayed was one of unequivocal religious tolerance. Further still, the apartment currently owned by hip hop mogul Russell Simmons, gazes directly down onto the 'Ground Zero' site.

This bold statement had two intentions. Firstly to remind those who in recent times having voiced their right to speak out against the building of Cordoba House (for its close proximity to the site), that the United States was founded on the principles of self-representation and a spectrum of personal freedoms.

Secondly, to showcase the diversity of opinion within the United States to those following this event across the globe, opposition to the cultural project is by no means the default position, and especially not in New York. Contrary to how the main stream media has chosen to portray the issue.

The Design

Though I was tasked to design the banners, the protest was a collaborative project with significant input from Glen; however the original idea was the brainchild of Glen's wife and Russell Simmons. Measuring 7' x 3' the banners are highly visible not only in size but the context of location has given great mobility to our message of tolerance.

In fact, the apartment windows have a short but significant political history. In response to the invasion of Iraq by the Bush Administration in 2004, the 'Liberty Street Protest' was launched canvassing an anti war message, that no invasion could be justified by the events of 9/11. These windows have served as a pulpit to preach a uniting sermon of peace, acceptance and co-operation, and will continue to do so under present ownership.

The protest in 2004 served again to send a clear message that public opinion in the United States, more specifically within New York, was not blindly in favour of an invasion. The efforts of the 'Liberty Street Protest' were relayed in the domestic and international news for weeks, successfully spreading the message of peace and solidarity to millions. Hopefully the current protest can have a similar effect.

The Message

The design of the banners utilized symbols from the various major global religions to spell out the word 'coexist'. On the face of it, rather an ironic creation, as Glen and I are of the Atheist tradition, however the symbolism reflects our attitudes towards religious practice perfectly. We ourselves may not hold your beliefs but we respect you for holding them and we cherish your right to practice them.

The inclusion of the Biblical verse (Mark 12:31) 'Love your neighbour as yourself', was primarily to demonstrate that coexistence is a millennia old concept, a value of a faith practiced by many of those opposed to the creation of Cordoba House. Something that has clearly slipped their collective attention or maybe an ad hoc insertion of the following caveat: 'Love your neighbour as yourself, as long as they hold your beliefs'.

Reverting back to the present, we pride ourselves in the United States that the first Amendment in our Constitution ensures that freedom of religious practice is protected. However, there are forces within the socio-political landscape that would prefer to circumvent such freedoms pushing an agenda of intolerance onto the unassuming, unquestioning masses.

Diversity's Asset

New York is possibly the most cosmopolitan multi racial city in the world, a bold statement, but one few could deny. It is not only frustrating but misleading for people from far afield to associate New Yorkers as a whole with the xenophobic protests against the building of the Mosque and cultural centre. While our viewpoint isn't universal in the city, it is widely held, a position that is not being reflected by the main stream media.

Our city is notorious for the many buildings for religious worship; Mosques are located all over the island and across the boroughs, along side churches, chapels, synagogues and temples. Giving the city not just a plethora of places to worship, but adding distinctly to the cultural makeup of the city, creating a great wealth of diversity in ideas, beliefs and practices that make this city the unique place it is. A diversity enjoyed by the many millions that call New York home.

Shared Values

So not only is this current spate of anti-Muslim protests 'Unamerican' as decreed by our Constitution, but also belies the ethos and spirit of the city of New York. Our banner is a better reflection of such spirit, one of collaboration, diversity, innovation, tolerance and solidarity. Values held by our friends and fellow citizens who lost loved ones in the shocking events that unfolded on September 11th, 2001.

The anti-Muslim protest is another feather in the cap of the xenophobic right; such fear mongering should not go unchecked. Such elements talk strongly about pride in American Values, but clearly have little connection to them, and this is where our frustration is born. We will fight to better represent ourselves using the mediums at our disposal, in this case, possibility the most political set of windows in Manhattan.

In the face of Islamophobia - Focus - Al Jazeera English

 

[nightcrawler]

Absolute rubbish. If this was the case, things would have been worse. There is no war such as "Europe vs Muslim countries". The world today is too interdependent to wage such geography based wars.

War to crush that interdependency buddy!!
Think why Japan engaged Ethiopia & what Hitler dictated in his book about gaining land for his growing population