ISI used LeT for anti-India activities: UN report

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

.All this shows is what the world body (rightly or wrongly ) believes

This was a fact finding commission into the BB murder - nothing in the report is binding, nor is it the opinion of the UN necessarily. These are the views of the commission.

And I believe the fact that the UN provided both viewpoints, and did not state that it was given evidence of any present ISI-LeT relationship, clearly indicates that it is merely talking about the opinions of the various 'analysts' it mentioned.

 

[karan.1970]

There is no shortsightedness - if you occupy a people then the people have legitemate right to resist, either politically or militarily.

Occupation and subjugation of millions is also 'extremely bad for societies'. Perhaps India should let the Kashmiris determine which nation they wish to be a part of then, under a UN held plebiscite?

Fortunately, never going to happen.. The sooner Pakistani people accept this (Pakistani establishment already does implicitly), the better it will be for whole of south asia

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Just like the UN report, and the independent analysts, I dont believe that ISI does not have any linkages at present..But I understand your stand on the bold paragraph now..

The UN report does state both opinions on the LeT-ISI relationship, and does not offer any new evidence, or existing evidence, that it uncovered to support the claim of the 'analysts' that a relationship between the ISI-LeT exists.

There just is nothing there to support your contention that the UN commission conclusively stated that a relationship between the ISI and LeT exists.

You are within your rights to believe something without substantiation.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Fortunately, never going to happen.. The sooner Pakistani people accept this (Pakistani establishment already does implicitly), the better it will be for whole of south asia

Sorry - Indians might be morally and ethically depraved enough to live with the occupation and subjugation of millions, but Pakistanis cannot fall to that level and will not accept it.

 

[karan.1970]

This was a fact finding commission into the BB murder - nothing in the report is binding, nor is it the opinion of the UN necessarily. These are the views of the commission.

And I believe the fact that the UN provided both viewpoints, and did not state that it was given evidence of any present ISI-LeT relationship, clearly indicates that it is merely talking about the opinions of the various 'analysts' it mentioned.

I agree.. Its not a UN resolution against ISI and is certainly not binding.. But as I said, no one's taking this to a court..

And you are being over optimistic is believing that the commission just listed the 2 views.. As I said before, it has stated the existence of presence of these links as an assertion and not something alleged by analysts..

And it does not say it is the opinion of analysts.. It says, the all analysts provided information to that effect.. 2 very different things...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Really its foolish to believe Pakistan would tone down its actions in Kashmir out of goodness of its heart..

No - we did it out of a desire to reach a compromise resolution of the Kashmir dispute, as publicly stated by Musharraf, and as seen by the details of the backchannel dialogue undertaken during that time.

But regardless of what reasons you attach to Pakistan's decision to help end the violent insurgency, Pakistan did so. Only someone completely brainwashed into hating Pakistan would not see the obvious connections.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I agree.. Its not a UN resolution against ISI and is certainly not binding.. But as I said, no one's taking this to a court..

And you are being over optimistic is believing that the commission just listed the 2 views.. As I said before, it has stated the existence of presence of these links as an assertion and not something alleged by analysts..

I am not being optimistic - that is what the commission did, provided two view points. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I will go with the view of the serving and former military officials. Innocent till proved guilty.

And it does not say it is the opinion of analysts.. It says, the all analysts provided information to that effect.. 2 very different things...

If I tell you something about someone I am giving you information about that 'someone'. At the end of the day it is still an opinion. Had the commission wanted to be categorical, it should have said 'provided evidence'.

Its just an opinion.

 

[karan.1970]

Sorry - Indians might be morally and ethically depraved enough to live with the occupation and subjugation of millions, but Pakistanis cannot fall to that level and will not accept it.

And Pakistanis are well within their rights to subject their coming generations as well to those after effects of this misguided state policy of insurgency that the current generations are experiancing..I can just hope that the leaders in Pakistan are not as short sighted and gullible...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

G'night for today.

 

[karan.1970]

No - we did it out of a desire to reach a compromise resolution of the Kashmir dispute, as publicly stated by Musharraf, and as seen by the details of the backchannel dialogue undertaken during that time.

But regardless of what reasons you attach to Pakistan's decision to help end the violent insurgency, Pakistan did so. Only someone completely brainwashed into hating Pakistan would not see the obvious connections.

And thats what I said.. Pakistan would reduce its support for insurgency in Kashmir only if it gets something out of it.. But we are digressing from the topic here

btw, I dont hate Pakistan and definitely not all Pakistanis.. Only those (any nationality) that support terrorism (as per my definition) in any part of the world including Kashmir...

 

[karan.1970]

I am not being optimistic - that is what the commission did, provided two view points. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I will go with the view of the serving and former military officials. Innocent till proved guilty.

If I tell you something about someone I am giving you information about that 'someone'. At the end of the day it is still an opinion. Had the commission wanted to be categorical, it should have said 'provided evidence'.

Its just an opinion.

Both of us can go at it till the cows come home.. Am replicating the exact relavent text from the report below, and we can leave it to the readers to form their own opinion or assertion about this


207. The jihadi organizations are Sunni groups based largely in Punjab. Members of these groups aided the Taliban effort in Afghanistan at the behest of the ISI and later cultivated ties with Al-Qaida and Pakistani Taliban groups. The Pakistani military and ISI also used and supported some of these groups in the Kashmir insurgency after 1989. The bulk of the anti-Indian activity was and still remains the work of groups such as Lashkar e Taiba, which has close ties with the ISI.

217 the ISI cultivated these relationships, initially in the context of the Cold War and the anti-Soviet war in Afghanistan in the 1980’s and later in support of Kashmiri insurgents. While several Pakistani current and former intelligence officials told the Commission that their agencies no longer had such ties in 2007, virtually all independent analysts provided information to the contrary and affirmed the ongoing nature of many such links.