ISI representative suggests delaying elections for three to four months

[Babaasif]

Will polls happen or not.cat and mouse game goes on

 

[airmarshal]

Can we safely say Pakistan army has gone rogue?

 

[That Guy]

If security is an excuse for you to delay elections, who do you think is to blame? This is not a good look, and makes the urgency of new elections even greater.

 

[Ssan]

Establishment is scoring an own goal here. This is clearly a political move to block PTI. This makes them look like they are in bed with TTP and erodes their own capability to do anything for terrorism.

 

[airmarshal]

2008 was a worst year in terrorism. There were bomb blasts going on everywhere.

Even then, elections were held. The army did all it can to do elections because it was an American order. The Americans brokered a deal between Benazir and Musharraf for these 'progressive' leaders to share power.

Since this was an American order, even if there was war with India, election would still have been held.

 

[Sugarcane]

After gobbling up half of budget and lands, special grants for fencing and counter terrorism ops, billions in taxes and duties exemptions for their business empire these lumber 1 chays suggest that elections can't be held. They are doing everything except the duty they were supposed to do.

 

[HAIDER]

Agencies caution ECP against holding polls at this point​

Iftikhar A. Khan Published March 11, 2023 Updated about 5 hours ago


• ISI representative suggests delaying elections for three to four months
• IB official talks about presence of armed militants in Punjab
• Meeting with defence ministry postponed to next week
ISLAMABAD: Clouds of uncertainty overhang the polls in Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, with military and civilian intelligence agencies joining the chorus of voices opposing general elections in the two provinces at this point in time.
An important meeting of the Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP) was held on Friday to discuss security arrangements for the general elections for the two provincial assemblies.
Chief Election Commissioner Sikandar Sultan Raja chaired the meeting, which was attended by ECP officials and representatives from the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), Intelligence Bureau (IB) and counterterrorism departments (CTDs) of the two provinces.
Sources privy to the developments told Dawn that all the representatives of intelligence agencies and CTDs were unanimous in their opinion that the time was not ripe for elections because of a fresh wave of terrorism, and intelligence reports suggesting that more attacks were possible in the two provinces.
An ISI representative sought the postponement of polls for three to four months because of the ongoing war against terrorism. IB’s joint director for Punjab talked about the presence of armed militants from Afghanistan in Punjab.




Painting a bleak picture, they said the country was passing through a difficult security situation, as evidenced by a recent spike in terrorism incidents. The meeting was told that in view of the multi-dimensional security concerns, going to general polls could be a big risk.


The ECP told the participants that holding general polls for the two provincial assemblies was a constitutional obligation. It also referred to the recent judgement of the Supreme Court, which ruled that the elections should take place within the stipulated timeframe of 90 days but allowed the barest minimum delay in case of practical difficulties.


A press release issued by the ECP said the commission was briefed in detail about the prevailing law and order situation in Punjab and KP and other related matters. It said the purpose of the briefing was to ensure that peaceful elections are conducted in the two provinces.


Towards the end of the meeting, the chief election commissioner thanked the participants and said the briefing would help it take different decisions for holding peaceful elections.


A meeting with representatives of the Ministry of Defence and Directorate General of Military Operations (DGMOs) was also supposed to take place on Friday, but it could not happen.


An ECP official said the meeting would now take place on March 14 — the day when the commission has also invited the KP governor for consultation on an election date for the provincial assembly.


Punjab and KP assemblies were dissolved on Jan 14 and Jan 18, respectively. Under the law, the elections are to be held within 90 days of the assembly’s dissolution. The ECP, however, has been facing resistance from all sides from day one.


On Jan 25, the ECP proposed conducting polls for the two legislatures between April 9 and 17.


In separate letters sent to principal secretaries of the two provinces, the ECP had suggested elections in Punjab between April 9 and 13, and in KP between April 15 and 17, pointing out that these could not be taken beyond April 13 for Punjab and April 17 for KP.


In their responses, the two governors declined to give dates for general elections to the provincial assemblies, advising the electoral watchdog to consult relevant authorities and take stock of the current security and economic situation before deciding in this regard.


The relevant ministries also expressed an inability to provide the funds required for funds owing to the economic crunch and security personnel for election duties due to the alarming security situation.


Another challenge faced by the ECP was the position taken by the Punjab governor that he would not give an election date as he did not dissolve the assembly.


Another interesting twist to the story was President Arif Alvi’s unilateral decision to fix April 9 as the election date after the ECP turned down his invitation for consultation.


In a split verdict on March 1, the Supreme Court directed the ECP to consult with President Alvi for polls in Punjab and Governor Ghulam Ali for elections in KP, so that polls could be held within the stipulated time of 90 days, giving room for a minimum possible delay.


Following the Supreme Court’s verdict, the ECP wrote to the president proposing elections to the Punjab Assembly between April 30 and May 7, and the president fixed April 30 as the poll date the same day, followed by the issuance of a schedule for elections by the ECP.






The ECP had also sent a letter to the KP governor and a team nominated by the commission had met him for consultation at his invitation. However, apparently as a delaying tactic, the governor said he would come to the ECP next week for final consultation.
Meanwhile, going against its earlier decision to approach the provincial high courts of the two provinces to spare judicial officers for election duties, the commission has notified returning officers, and assistant and district returning officers from the bureaucracy for the general elections in Punjab. Accordingly, most of them are from the district administration.
The commission has also appointed Saeed Gul, a provincial election commissioner, as returning officer for women and minority seats.
Published in Dawn, March 11th, 2023

https://twitter.com/x/status/1634396699941642240

Sir ji yeah ISI wala ustad jo ha...vo ab TV pa aa kar briefing he da diya kara ... ab aysa bhi kia sharmana ..

 

[Signalian]

Just to remind the good folks here, we had elections in 2008 and 2013, which was arguably the height of militancy in the country.

You mean to say that the law and order situation of the country is so bad that you cannot hold provincial elections in friggin Punjab?

This is a self-indictment by the ISI that it cannot control militancy in Punjab of all places.

Oh wait, they are more busy in tapping phone calls and picking up teenagers from their homes and filing sedition charges.

Since you are talking numbers. Let’s say 50-100 people die due to elections, would that be a justified number ? What if among those are 10 of your relatives ?

Probably broaden your horizons. You can base multiple other points to argue the topic but don’t use deaths as an argument by stooping so low.

 

[Dalit]

Hahahaa

I am happy. Seeing youthiyas jumping up and down behaving like total traitors when they used to label others for even slight criticism. The hypocrisy they’re exhibiting now is what I used to point out.

The only ones crying is look at my profile picture


You seem to think I care about PDM, end their govt today for all I care. I have seen PTI sad and embarrassed for watch thief. That’s enough for me.

Don’t plan to live in this country anyway with these morally bankrupt nation

You are a major part of the problem. In fact you are the problem bud. No need for lengthy speeches from you.

PTI this PTI that. Have you had a look at the state of Pakistan? Your PDM is in charge now. Why aren't they able to rescue the economy? Imran Khan is long gone. PDM has the backing of the establishment. PDM also has the backing of Joe Biden. Why is PDM unable to fix the Pakistani economy? There is not a single soul willing to provide a penny to PDM including expats. Remittances are dropping like a house of cards. Is this all the fault of Imran Khan? You guys claimed that PDM was going to improve the Pakistani economy. Yet all I see is regression. Apart from blame games you guys have nothing on offer. Your FM begs for money. Your current PM begs for money. All I see is PDM's begging bowl.

For someone who doesn't want to live in Pakistan you sure as hell are taking keen interest in it's affairs.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Since you are talking numbers. Let’s say 50-100 people die due to elections, would that be a justified number ? What if among those are 10 of your relatives ?

Probably broaden your horizons. You can base multiple other points to argue the topic but don’t use deaths as an argument by stooping so low.

Forget 100, even if millions die you always follow constitution of Pakistan

That's what separates republics from banana Republics, in banana Republics constitution means nothing

Nations hold elections during wars, Sri Lanka held thier election in middle of thier bankruptcy crisis

Stop it....

 

[Dalit]

Can we safely say Pakistan army has gone rogue?

It has gone insane. That is for sure. The problem with the generals is that they want to be worshipped. Every person has somewhat of an ego. That is human nature. Are you going to destroy your own house because people are criticizing your destructive policies? That is exactly what the generals have done. They are like babies out on a vengeance.

 

[Jango]

Since you are talking numbers. Let’s say 50-100 people die due to elections, would that be a justified number ? What if among those are 10 of your relatives ?

Probably broaden your horizons. You can base multiple other points to argue the topic but don’t use deaths as an argument by stooping so low.

I have been avoiding quoting your posts for some time now since we both know where your argument goes, but here we go.

1- I didn't talk numbers anywhere.

2- What is the baseline metric that you use of terrorism? Is there any quantifiable metric, or is it just a gut feeling or dependent on the mood of the day? ISI says that can't hold elections for 3 months. Ok. What is the metric that says right now X is at Y%, and after 3 months it will drop down to below Z% and we can safely hold elections. To dumb it down further, I know water freezes at 0 degrees C, so I don't put my water bottle in the fridge until the temp goes above 0 degrees so that my water won't freeze. What is the metric?

3- What if the metric does not drop down for the next 5 years. Then what, we won't hold elections? What about the next 10 years. What then?

4- Why were elections then held at the peak of terrorism in 2008 and 2013? I didn't talk numbers before, but let's talk now. In 2008, according to the South Asia terrorism portal, we had 1149 terrorism related incidents, with 1796 civilian, and 647 security forces casualties. In 2013, we had 2034 terrorism related incidents, with 2713 civilian and 665 security forces casualties. In 2023, we have currently 81 terrorism related incidents, with 24 civilian and 176 security forces casualties (the Peshawar incident skewing the data here). Ok, we are 3 months in. Let's take 2022. We had 365 terrorism incidents, 229 civilian and 379 security forces casualties. So again, what is the basis on which you can say that we cannot hold elections right now even though we could hold them in 2008 and 2013?

5- How many people died due to elections in 2008 and 2013? How many people died in the recently held by-polls for 35 NA eats? Is there any correlation between both? Does that correlation equate to causation? How many people have died in terrorism related incidents apart from the obvious targets such as a police line or HQ?

6- Each and every life is important. Forget 100, even 1. Your statement makes it seem that 30 log mar jayen to theek hai, qabool hai, magr 100 nhn. Is that honestly what you are saying? Read your post again. No number is justified in a terrorism related incident, but is ka matlab hai elections rok do? The whole basis on which your governance relies upon.

7- Furthermore, this is just conjecture on my part, but TTP has said clearly that they will not be targeting civilians in their attacks but only security forces. But that is a moot point.

8- An attack happened at the Peshawar mosque, so what? Jumma parhna ab band kar dain?

9- Isn't the admission by ISI that terrorism is at a peak, so much so that we cannot hold elections right now, meaning we are back in the early 2010's era, a self indictment that it failed to control things?

10-

but don’t use deaths as an argument by stooping so low.

My good sir, please read my post again and let me know where I used deaths as an argument. You are the one who is basing your argument on X amount deaths being too much but Y being manageable.

And finally:

What if among those are 10 of your relatives ?

Please never try and blackmail me emotionally again on this. I have lost a family member to this menace, another still has burn marks on his back, and lost a very dear friend in the parade lane attack. So next time, be careful before speaking.

All in all, it is evident to anyone who has enough mental capacity to eat lunch and dinner that this whole exercise is nothing but hogwash to postpone elections. Has terrorism seen an uptick in recent months? Most definitely. Has it become such a problem that we can effectively suspend the constitution and not hold elections? Absolutely not.

 

[fisher1]

In fact you are the problem bud.

LOL

Mkay

 

[mudas777]

Agencies caution ECP against holding polls at this point​

Iftikhar A. Khan Published March 11, 2023 Updated about 5 hours ago


• ISI representative suggests delaying elections for three to four months
• IB official talks about presence of armed militants in Punjab
• Meeting with defence ministry postponed to next week
ISLAMABAD: Clouds of uncertainty overhang the polls in Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, with military and civilian intelligence agencies joining the chorus of voices opposing general elections in the two provinces at this point in time.
An important meeting of the Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP) was held on Friday to discuss security arrangements for the general elections for the two provincial assemblies.
Chief Election Commissioner Sikandar Sultan Raja chaired the meeting, which was attended by ECP officials and representatives from the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), Intelligence Bureau (IB) and counterterrorism departments (CTDs) of the two provinces.
Sources privy to the developments told Dawn that all the representatives of intelligence agencies and CTDs were unanimous in their opinion that the time was not ripe for elections because of a fresh wave of terrorism, and intelligence reports suggesting that more attacks were possible in the two provinces.
An ISI representative sought the postponement of polls for three to four months because of the ongoing war against terrorism. IB’s joint director for Punjab talked about the presence of armed militants from Afghanistan in Punjab.




Painting a bleak picture, they said the country was passing through a difficult security situation, as evidenced by a recent spike in terrorism incidents. The meeting was told that in view of the multi-dimensional security concerns, going to general polls could be a big risk.


The ECP told the participants that holding general polls for the two provincial assemblies was a constitutional obligation. It also referred to the recent judgement of the Supreme Court, which ruled that the elections should take place within the stipulated timeframe of 90 days but allowed the barest minimum delay in case of practical difficulties.


A press release issued by the ECP said the commission was briefed in detail about the prevailing law and order situation in Punjab and KP and other related matters. It said the purpose of the briefing was to ensure that peaceful elections are conducted in the two provinces.


Towards the end of the meeting, the chief election commissioner thanked the participants and said the briefing would help it take different decisions for holding peaceful elections.


A meeting with representatives of the Ministry of Defence and Directorate General of Military Operations (DGMOs) was also supposed to take place on Friday, but it could not happen.


An ECP official said the meeting would now take place on March 14 — the day when the commission has also invited the KP governor for consultation on an election date for the provincial assembly.


Punjab and KP assemblies were dissolved on Jan 14 and Jan 18, respectively. Under the law, the elections are to be held within 90 days of the assembly’s dissolution. The ECP, however, has been facing resistance from all sides from day one.


On Jan 25, the ECP proposed conducting polls for the two legislatures between April 9 and 17.


In separate letters sent to principal secretaries of the two provinces, the ECP had suggested elections in Punjab between April 9 and 13, and in KP between April 15 and 17, pointing out that these could not be taken beyond April 13 for Punjab and April 17 for KP.


In their responses, the two governors declined to give dates for general elections to the provincial assemblies, advising the electoral watchdog to consult relevant authorities and take stock of the current security and economic situation before deciding in this regard.


The relevant ministries also expressed an inability to provide the funds required for funds owing to the economic crunch and security personnel for election duties due to the alarming security situation.


Another challenge faced by the ECP was the position taken by the Punjab governor that he would not give an election date as he did not dissolve the assembly.


Another interesting twist to the story was President Arif Alvi’s unilateral decision to fix April 9 as the election date after the ECP turned down his invitation for consultation.


In a split verdict on March 1, the Supreme Court directed the ECP to consult with President Alvi for polls in Punjab and Governor Ghulam Ali for elections in KP, so that polls could be held within the stipulated time of 90 days, giving room for a minimum possible delay.


Following the Supreme Court’s verdict, the ECP wrote to the president proposing elections to the Punjab Assembly between April 30 and May 7, and the president fixed April 30 as the poll date the same day, followed by the issuance of a schedule for elections by the ECP.






The ECP had also sent a letter to the KP governor and a team nominated by the commission had met him for consultation at his invitation. However, apparently as a delaying tactic, the governor said he would come to the ECP next week for final consultation.
Meanwhile, going against its earlier decision to approach the provincial high courts of the two provinces to spare judicial officers for election duties, the commission has notified returning officers, and assistant and district returning officers from the bureaucracy for the general elections in Punjab. Accordingly, most of them are from the district administration.
The commission has also appointed Saeed Gul, a provincial election commissioner, as returning officer for women and minority seats.
Published in Dawn, March 11th, 2023

https://twitter.com/x/status/1634396699941642240

ISI in cahoots' with the army brought the Taliban back to Pakistan so they can get back with the US to get some dollars and the US the bases. No wonder they were not disclosing at that point to the IK parliament that negotiations are taking place.
These begaret's so called ISI advisors need to be taken to the courts and after the verdict shot at the spot without letting them to appeal. Now they are using black art of terrorism to delay the elections knowing well their kingdom is about to collapse and they will be on the firing line. Same shit from the last 75 years just different day but at least cat is out of the bag and these savoury characters with lanati faces are exposed.

 

[airmarshal]

I have been avoiding quoting your posts for some time now since we both know where your argument goes, but here we go.

1- I didn't talk numbers anywhere.

2- What is the baseline metric that you use of terrorism? Is there any quantifiable metric, or is it just a gut feeling or dependent on the mood of the day? ISI says that can't hold elections for 3 months. Ok. What is the metric that says right now X is at Y%, and after 3 months it will drop down to below Z% and we can safely hold elections. To dumb it down further, I know water freezes at 0 degrees C, so I don't put my water bottle in the fridge until the temp goes above 0 degrees so that my water won't freeze. What is the metric?

3- What if the metric does not drop down for the next 5 years. Then what, we won't hold elections? What about the next 10 years. What then?

4- Why were elections then held at the peak of terrorism in 2008 and 2013? I didn't talk numbers before, but let's talk now. In 2008, according to the South Asia terrorism portal, we had 1149 terrorism related incidents, with 1796 civilian, and 647 security forces casualties. In 2013, we had 2034 terrorism related incidents, with 2713 civilian and 665 security forces casualties. In 2023, we have currently 81 terrorism related incidents, with 24 civilian and 176 security forces casualties (the Peshawar incident skewing the data here). Ok, we are 3 months in. Let's take 2022. We had 365 terrorism incidents, 229 civilian and 379 security forces casualties. So again, what is the basis on which you can say that we cannot hold elections right now even though we could hold them in 2008 and 2013?

5- How many people died due to elections in 2008 and 2013? How many people died in the recently held by-polls for 35 NA eats? Is there any correlation between both? Does that correlation equate to causation? How many people have died in terrorism related incidents apart from the obvious targets such as a police line or HQ?

6- Each and every life is important. Forget 100, even 1. Your statement makes it seem that 30 log mar jayen to theek hai, qabool hai, magr 100 nhn. Is that honestly what you are saying? Read your post again. No number is justified in a terrorism related incident, but is ka matlab hai elections rok do? The whole basis on which your governance relies upon.

7- Furthermore, this is just conjecture on my part, but TTP has said clearly that they will not be targeting civilians in their attacks but only security forces. But that is a moot point.

8- An attack happened at the Peshawar mosque, so what? Jumma parhna ab band kar dain?

9- Isn't the admission by ISI that terrorism is at a peak, so much so that we cannot hold elections right now, meaning we are back in the early 2010's era, a self indictment that it failed to control things?

10-



My good sir, please read my post again and let me know where I used deaths as an argument. You are the one who is basing your argument on X amount deaths being too much but Y being manageable.

And finally:



Please never try and blackmail me emotionally again on this. I have lost a family member to this menace, another still has burn marks on his back, and lost a very dear friend in the parade lane attack. So next time, be careful before speaking.

All in all, it is evident to anyone who has enough mental capacity to eat lunch and dinner that this whole exercise is nothing but hogwash to postpone elections. Has terrorism seen an uptick in recent months? Most definitely. Has it become such a problem that we can effectively suspend the constitution and not hold elections? Absolutely not.

Elections were held in 2008 despite terrorism because army's daddy that is USA had ordered elections. The Americans wanted Musharraf to share power with Benazir. So despite terrorism, army did go ahead with elections even when Benazir was killed.


This time army see defeat. Their plan has unraveled. There is no American pressure. So they dont want to hold elections.

Ask these nut jobs representing army here. If Pakistan is so dangerous then why PSL is being held? Why women edition is being played in Pakistan? Where there was a marathon in Lahore today? Unlike them, we are not living in PTV era.