ISI/Pak-Army & Pashtuns: breaking myths

[Son of Mountains]

ISI/PAKISTAN ARMY AND PASHTUNS, TO DISCLOSE THE MYTH AND TO DISCOVER THE REALITY

My aim is to reform the Pashtun society with modern education, democracy, human rights and other modern concepts compatible with Pashtunwali and the religion of Islam (faith, worship and ethics). One hindrance that I found in this reformatory process is the blame games of Pashtun intellectuals and politicians who blame others especially Punjabis, Tajiks, ISI, CIA, Pakistan, Iran, USA, Pakistani Army and Afghan Army and other forces. This is why I am writing this series of articles to debunk this blame game and to invite Pashtuns to reform themselves instead of blaming others.

One of the scapegoats for the problems of Pashtuns is ISI and Pakistani Army. I usually see that Pashtuns blame ISI and Pakistani army for our problems but I don’t see any concrete arguments in this regard except the supposed involvement of ISI in the rise Taliban as their strategic asset. Apart from this we just label ISI but I really don’t understand why ISI being an organized intelligence agency will create such a mess for it self making 14% population (Pashtuns) in Pakistan its enemies and the majority in Afghanistan? I don’t see any reason why ISI is bent upon ruining Pashtuns? There may be some few and far between cases, but there may not be an inherent enmity between ISI and Pashtuns as such.

Read whole article with discussion from PashtunsForum.com
ISI / Pak-Army & Pashtuns: breaking myths

 

[Don Jaguar]

ISI/PAKISTAN ARMY AND PASHTUNS, TO DISCLOSE THE MYTH AND TO DISCOVER THE REALITY

My aim is to reform the Pashtun society with modern education, democracy, human rights and other modern concepts compatible with Pashtunwali and the religion of Islam (faith, worship and ethics). One hindrance that I found in this reformatory process is the blame games of Pashtun intellectuals and politicians who blame others especially Punjabis, Tajiks, ISI, CIA, Pakistan, Iran, USA, Pakistani Army and Afghan Army and other forces. This is why I am writing this series of articles to debunk this blame game and to invite Pashtuns to reform themselves instead of blaming others.

One of the scapegoats for the problems of Pashtuns is ISI and Pakistani Army. I usually see that Pashtuns blame ISI and Pakistani army for our problems but I don’t see any concrete arguments in this regard except the supposed involvement of ISI in the rise Taliban as their strategic asset. Apart from this we just label ISI but I really don’t understand why ISI being an organized intelligence agency will create such a mess for it self making 14% population (Pashtuns) in Pakistan its enemies and the majority in Afghanistan? I don’t see any reason why ISI is bent upon ruining Pashtuns? There may be some few and far between cases, but there may not be an inherent enmity between ISI and Pashtuns as such.

Read whole article with discussion from PashtunsForum.com
ISI / Pak-Army & Pashtuns: breaking myths

Tell me Admin Khan is afghan or Pakistani?

 

[Son of Mountains]

Tell me Admin Khan is afghan or Pakistani?

I have no relation with his forum, We have our own forum, for Pakistani Pashtuns. Find its link in my signatures ......

As far as i guess, he was Afghan Mohajir in Pakistan, later on, got asylum is America.

 

[r3alist]

ISI/PAKISTAN ARMY AND PASHTUNS, TO DISCLOSE THE MYTH AND TO DISCOVER THE REALITY

My aim is to reform the Pashtun society with modern education, democracy, human rights and other modern concepts compatible with Pashtunwali and the religion of Islam (faith, worship and ethics). One hindrance that I found in this reformatory process is the blame games of Pashtun intellectuals and politicians who blame others especially Punjabis, Tajiks, ISI, CIA, Pakistan, Iran, USA, Pakistani Army and Afghan Army and other forces. This is why I am writing this series of articles to debunk this blame game and to invite Pashtuns to reform themselves instead of blaming others.

One of the scapegoats for the problems of Pashtuns is ISI and Pakistani Army. I usually see that Pashtuns blame ISI and Pakistani army for our problems but I don’t see any concrete arguments in this regard except the supposed involvement of ISI in the rise Taliban as their strategic asset. Apart from this we just label ISI but I really don’t understand why ISI being an organized intelligence agency will create such a mess for it self making 14% population (Pashtuns) in Pakistan its enemies and the majority in Afghanistan? I don’t see any reason why ISI is bent upon ruining Pashtuns? There may be some few and far between cases, but there may not be an inherent enmity between ISI and Pashtuns as such.

Read whole article with discussion from PashtunsForum.com
ISI / Pak-Army & Pashtuns: breaking myths

this is a good post, and i think it will be very beneficial for the pashtuns to understand the situation a bit better.

i generally find that afghan pashtuns are very illogical about their bias and anger, which is of course understandable but not helpful for them.


for example, pakistan seems to be the root of evil for all their problems, yet the mujhadeen, the wars and the destruction is all american or russian....the funding, the terrorists and the extremism is all arab...... let alone the thousands of afghan pushtuns themselves who were a part of the mayhem.

pakistan is indeed a player but ultimately just following orders, many cannot see this simple fact, and many do not want to, because their so called anger at the isi is just a conduit for their dreams of a greater afghanistan, instead of striving to make friends with their neighbours they want to pick a fight!!

this is just one example of the illogical and self defeating attitudes many have.
i think its better not to get involved in speaking to angry/pashtuns because nothing good can be achieved, its better to let them calm down and find their centre.

 

[wakapdf]

ISI/PAKISTAN ARMY AND PASHTUNS, TO DISCLOSE THE MYTH AND TO DISCOVER THE REALITY

My aim is to reform the Pashtun society with modern education, democracy, human rights and other modern concepts compatible with Pashtunwali and the religion of Islam (faith, worship and ethics). One hindrance that I found in this reformatory process is the blame games of Pashtun intellectuals and politicians who blame others especially Punjabis, Tajiks, ISI, CIA, Pakistan, Iran, USA, Pakistani Army and Afghan Army and other forces. This is why I am writing this series of articles to debunk this blame game and to invite Pashtuns to reform themselves instead of blaming others.

One of the scapegoats for the problems of Pashtuns is ISI and Pakistani Army. I usually see that Pashtuns blame ISI and Pakistani army for our problems but I don’t see any concrete arguments in this regard except the supposed involvement of ISI in the rise Taliban as their strategic asset. Apart from this we just label ISI but I really don’t understand why ISI being an organized intelligence agency will create such a mess for it self making 14% population (Pashtuns) in Pakistan its enemies and the majority in Afghanistan? I don’t see any reason why ISI is bent upon ruining Pashtuns? There may be some few and far between cases, but there may not be an inherent enmity between ISI and Pashtuns as such.

Read whole article with discussion from PashtunsForum.com
ISI / Pak-Army & Pashtuns: breaking myths

Pashtoons dont blame the army or the ISI. Its the Americans that blame the army and the ISI. Pashtoon are innocent and simple people. They only go about their daily lives. Its the US that like to stir up trouble in this region

 

[Luftwaffe]

I'll have to debunk poorly imagined blaming "Pushtuns" Article, don't care who wrote but the person certainly has no good intrections with atleast Pakistani Pushtuns. Considering bloody taliban as entire Pushtuns. I don't know where he got the statistics and consensus that Pushtuns over all hate Pak Army/ISI and all the long list, truth is he has no statistics, whatever happens across Pakistan everyone points to Pushtuns for God sakes more than 25000 Pushtuns died in WOT and thousands displaced not because of Army-ISI but because of talibans/AQ terrorism. I Think he should study the real history how Pushtuns have been oppressed by outsiders and insiders and everyone better read on and educate that Pushtuns have been largely pro Pak Army/ISI...and fighting alongside to eliminate talibans/AQ and any other groups. This is enough people posting tom dick and harry Articles without any knowledge and history regarding Pushtuns. The sacrifices Pushtuns paid against through out the history and WOT is tremendous, needless to remind I am not going to write a long post the whole world knows Pushtuns of Pakistan are not on the wrong side. Bet author of the article is right about one thing; Pushtuns do blame tajiks, CIA, afghan army and Iran, atleast 3 of them are real pain in the arse for the 3 decades. We die for Pakistan endure all the pain, displacement, insult, torture, bombing and then a piece of crappy article pops up Pushtun blame game what the heck is that a few people blame others and the entire load is on the whole Pushtuns, this is getting ridiculous.

Such an Article is deliberate to put ISI-Army and Pushtuns at each other's throats evidently the history tells pushtuns fought side by side with Pakistan Army when afghans came into tribal areas, then in 80's and now again fighting WOT. Did author research that many local trible lashkirs were/are formed to fight and assist Pakistan Army. Again this is a tricky Article which I called deliberate "phoot dalana".

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Pakistan, ISI, Pashtuns --- all are one and the same. Same interests, same people.


the ISI are not robots; they consist of ordinary people as well. Apart from full-time civvy or milly members it also relies HUGELY on HUMINT (human intelligence) and a lot of cooperation from the Pakhtun tribals and tribal lashkars has been critical for trying to bring about security and some normalcy in the FATA region

Pakhtuns have also been supportive towards the Kashmiri freedom movement since 1940s.....cant overlook that either

if Pakhtuns were anti-ISI, they wouldn't be working hand-in-hand with them......


such speculations about loyalties of Pakhtuns to Pakistan or even ISI loyalties --- they just suit the enemy agenda to create confusion and divide our people. And it will never work.












p.s. i am not denying that there is also a section of people who feel or allege that ISI has "disappeared" people or that even the military operations have made their lives more difficult....i'd be lying if i said that

 

[Hyperion]

What a load of bullshit. 99.99% of Pashtuns in settled areas (minus one person, Monkey Luffy) and 70% of Pashtuns in Tribal areas are fiercely pro Pakistan. The 30% remainder have absolutely no idea what's going on outside the agency they are based in, as they haven't ventured out of their agency since they were born.

Regarding the 30% disenchanted Pushtoons of the tribal areas, I blame the dumb *** Arabs, Uzbeks and Tajiks that were given safe haven in these tribal agencies by our intelligence agencies historically, not necessarily due to some ill-will towards the Pashtuns, but due to callous planning and without having the foresight or an end game integrated into the short term game-plan.

Whatever the case, they are being rooted out now. I see no problem, whatsoever, we will always have racist Pashtuns, Punjabis, Sindhis, Mohajirs, Balochs etc etc. Nothing can be done about that, unless the economy improves considerably and these people can see their life standards improve.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

What a load of bullshit. 99.99% of Pashtuns in settled areas (minus one person, Monkey Luffy) and 70% of Pashtuns in Tribal areas are fiercely pro Pakistan. The 30% remainder have absolutely no idea what's going on outside the agency they are based in, as they haven't ventured out of their agency since they were born.

Regarding the 30% disenchanted Pushtoons of the tribal areas, I blame the dumb *** Arabs, Uzbeks and Tajiks that were given safe haven in these tribal agencies by our intelligence agencies historically, not necessarily due to some ill-will towards the Pashtuns, but due to callous planning and without having the foresight or an end game integrated into the short term game-plan.

Whatever the case, they are being rooted out now. I see no problem, whatsoever, we will always have racist Pashtuns, Punjabis, Sindhis, Mohajirs, Balochs etc etc. Nothing can be done about that, unless the economy improves considerably and these people can see their life standards improve.

very well said....

And yes, the Intelligence Agencies SHOULD HAVE had the foresight. Those men who fought the soviets should have been repatriated and re-integrated to civilian life in their native countries. But unfortunately, they simply became nameless, faceless, addressless fighters with no fight --- and no nationality that accepted them.

in retrospect, managing the jihadis post- soviet withdrawal was not given enough attention.....some even in military circles raised hue and cry about it but not enough was done. And unfortunately, the Americans and other partners totally abandoned and forgot about them as well and we were left to deal with it

hopefully all illegal aliens in Pakistan would be expelled.....Rehman Malik --as is in his nature and mental capacity -- made a promise to do more on this front. But little or nothing has been done so far.


on Pashtuns --- we are the 2nd largest group in Pakistan. Of course the loyalty will never change. A few internet trolls or the occasional gheirat mand who insists on dividing rather than uniting brothers will always exist somewhere. As long as there's no threat to security or integrity of the nation then who cares -- they can yap. I think maybe some of them are confused and they need some brotherly guidance.

 

[haviZsultan]

I am glad this topic is being discussed here.

I wish Luffy had the balls to post links to all these threads on pashtunforums and tell them they are totally wrong. Son of mountains is our mashar and hero of Pakistani Pashtuns. For years he has single-highhandedly been managing the effort to present the true image of Pakistani Pashtuns.

We are one. We are all Pakistanis.... long live the real Pashtuns and long live Pakistan (Pashtuns from Afghanistan have no history without us and they know this)

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

It would be wrong to say that ISI is enemy of Pashtuns, it is actually enemy of all izat-mand and fikar-mand mohib-e-watan Pakistanis. Always pray from allah that you do not cross paths with ISI, they surely work for security and integrity of Pakistan but they are dangerous people, their methods and way of working are dangerous, they are not answerable to law and they dont care about law.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Pakistan, ISI, Pashtuns --- all are one and the same. Same interests, same people.

Not exactly, ISI is an organization with its own structure and functioning, they strictly operates as pakistanis, not as punjabis or pashtuns. While pashtun is an independant phenomena and mindset. ISI dont care about interests of pashtuns, for them pakistan is priority. If pakistan's and pashtun's interests are same and coincides, then every thing is o.k but if they differ, ISI would go against pashtun interests. If using pashtuns as cannon fodder and expendables is in pakistan's greater interest, ISI would do it.
And for those who "hey look there are so many pakhtuns in army and ISI", they should remember that any pashtun in army or ISI does not operate as pakhtun, only as pakistani with "fauji mindset".

the ISI are not robots; they consist of ordinary people as well. Apart from full-time civvy or milly members it also relies HUGELY on HUMINT (human intelligence) and a lot of cooperation from the Pakhtun tribals and tribal lashkars has been critical for trying to bring about security and some normalcy in the FATA region

Pakhtuns have also been supportive towards the Kashmiri freedom movement since 1940s.....cant overlook that either

if Pakhtuns were anti-ISI, they wouldn't be working hand-in-hand with them......


such speculations about loyalties of Pakhtuns to Pakistan or even ISI loyalties --- they just suit the enemy agenda to create confusion and divide our people. And it will never work.












p.s. i am not denying that there is also a section of people who feel or allege that ISI has "disappeared" people or that even the military operations have made their lives more difficult....i'd be lying if i said that

 

[Armstrong]

Not exactly, ISI is an organization with its own structure and functioning, they strictly operates as pakistanis, not as punjabis or pashtuns. While pashtun is an independant phenomena and mindset. ISI dont care about interests of pashtuns, for them pakistan is priority. If pakistan's and pashtun's interests are same and coincides, then every thing is o.k but if they differ, ISI would go against pashtun interests. If using pashtuns as cannon fodder and expendables is in pakistan's greater interest, ISI would do it.
And for those who "hey look there are so many pakhtuns in army and ISI", they should remember that any pashtun in army or ISI does not operate as pakhtun, only as pakistani with "fauji mindset".

I see ! So how exactly does one operate as a Pukhtoon only ?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I see ! So how exactly does one operate as a Pukhtoon only ?

By pakhto and pakhtunwali.

 

[Armstrong]

By pakhto and pakhtunwali.

How is that & serving your nation two mutually exclusive things ?