ISI - a big failure?

[Spring Onion]

Huge difference between mujhiddens and taliban, Mujhideens like dostum and massoud fought against the ISI backed taliban whereas few mujhshideens like hekmetyaar joined the taliban.... There is a big misconception that mujhaideens became taliban, which is not completely true. Talib (student) were the kids recruited mostly from the afghan refugee camps and tribal areas of pak, trained in the madrasas backed by saudi money and sent in by ISI under the so called leaddership of mullah omar, but during the 94 attacks on kabul, ISI/PA mil commanders were embeded in the squads that attacked massouds forces, which by the way he sucessfully repelled. Later massoud and rabbani had to tactically evacuate to panjshir, from where they did launch a counter attack, decimating the taliban, but couldn't hold on to kabul.

When taliban government was formed, ISI backed elements sucessfully pulled off the IC 814 hijacking.- Another sucess

only Indians can be that much ignorant Not to know that Ahmed Shah Masood, Dostam, Rabbani, Sayaf, Hikmatyar all were Pakistan's boys and were trained and backed by Pakistan in the first Afghan war. all of them were Mujahideen.

Later in the 90s there had been too much internal power tug of war between these Afghan factions backed by different countries namely Iran-Pakistan-India.

India was backing Masood faction for obvious reasons since he was against Pashtun factions' power. The other warlords were backed by fariswans whereas later another faction emerged calling themself Taliban. Their emergance was more related to social injustices by warlords there but unfortunately the movement after gaining public support become another "warlord" in itself.

Pakistan backed it for same obvious reasons for which India backed anti-Pukhtun factions

 

[MilSpec]

only Indians can be that much ignorant Not to know that Ahmed Shah Masood, Dostam, Rabbani, Sayaf, Hikmatyar all were Pakistan's boys and were trained and backed by Pakistan in the first Afghan war. all of them were Mujahideen.

Later in the 90s there had been too much internal power tug of war between these Afghan factions backed by different countries namely Iran-Pakistan-India.

India was backing Masood faction for obvious reasons since he was against Pashtun factions' power. The other warlords were backed by fariswans whereas later another faction emerged calling themself Taliban. Their emergance was more related to social injustices by warlords there but unfortunately the movement after gaining public support become another "warlord" in itself.

Pakistan backed it for same obvious reasons for which India backed anti-Pukhtun factions

And may I ask where did taliban emerge from, most of the taliban fighter in 90's in their teens were kids during soviet invasion. These were recruited by ISI from madarsas and later backed by radical groups like hekmtyaar's Hezb-e Islami and sayyaf's Ittihad-i Islami . ISI took advantage, armed them, trained them and let them set their targets on kabul. Massoud and rabbani even wanted to hold talks with the taliban, but instead taliban entered kabul and butchered everyone.

 

[Spring Onion]

Does the bolded part suggest success?

Have they told the nation the truth about TTP, about the Lashkars? About their involvement with the creation of the super Mzloums? You know that many people think that it is ISI itself that is behind these terrorist and sectarian attacks - Is that success?

Please do not think, for a minute, that we feel good about these failures - we cant begin to make it right without this critical review.

Many people also believe Fox news.

What truth you want to know about TTP or Lashkars? come to our areas and even we can tell you who they are and what are their motives.

You dont need an intel agency to tell you that. its funny when people sitting miles away try to sell the idea to us (those who live in heartland of these militants) that these armchair generals know more about us and what we know.

 

[muse]

And may I ask where did taliban emerge from, most of the taliban fighter in 90's in their teens were kids during soviet invasion. These were recruited by ISI from madarsas and later backed by radical groups like hekmtyaar's Hezb-e Islami and sayyaf's Ittihad-i Islami . ISI took advantage, armed them, trained them and let them set their targets on kabul. Massoud and rabbani even wanted to hold talks with the taliban, but instead taliban entered kabul and butchered everyone.

Sandy - See post # 133 -- That's how it happened - once it was decided that the Mujahideen were a loss, it was over for them - but WHY did such a decision become necessary? Economics, once the Talib had put a lid o Afghanistan (made it safe for civilization to do commerce) they were invited to Texas, unfortunately for them, they wanted more than was on offer

 

[Spring Onion]

And may I ask where did taliban emerge from, most of the taliban fighter in 90's in their teens were kids during soviet invasion. These were recruited by ISI from madarsas and later backed by radical groups like hekmtyaar's Hezb-e Islami and sayyaf's Ittihad-i Islami . ISI took advantage, armed them, trained them and let them set their targets on kabul. Massoud and rabbani even wanted to hold talks with the taliban, but instead taliban entered kabul and butchered everyone.

Do you even know that how the movement started? it was started when one of your beloved Indian backed farsiwan warlods's men slit the womb of a preg woman while on way to hospital .

And hikmatyar had not backed Taliban. he had been fighting the other factions on his own and even did not interfer in current struggle against NATO

 

[MilSpec]

Do you even know that how the movement started? it was started when one of your beloved Indian backed farsiwan warlods's men slit the womb of a preg woman while on way to hospital .

And hikmatyar had not backed Taliban. he had been fighting the other factions on his own and even did not interfer in current struggle against NATO

madam,
Sorry to disappoint you but the warlord hung on the tank barell was a pashtun commander affiliated to sherzai and not a tajik. There was no indian connections despite of your fantasies.

I am pretty sure you are aware of "Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam", would you please enlighten us on thier role of providing cannon fodder.

As far as hekmetyaar goes, his hizb e - islami were primary backers of taliban. They even supported the raid militarily on kabul, so please sell this story to someone else.


All the associates/affiliates of Taliban:
Haqqani network
Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin
Islamic Emirate of Waziristan
Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
East Turkestan Islamic Movement
Al-Qaeda
Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi
Jamaat-e-Islami
Caucasian Front

 

[rockstarIN]

This is a surprise! - though nothing can be discredited to its clandestine activities - ISI has become a force to reckon with in proxy wars.

What's happening now? have they lost their midas touch?

One more ISI success I can think of is the Khalistan movement.

I believe they have a good success rate at tactical level, but on a broad strategic level.....may be it is not in their hand, with PoI or Army.

They did well what they were told to do, the long subsequent scenarios should have analysed and planned accordingly by the govt. level.

 

[illusion8]

I believe they have a good success rate at tactical level, but on a broad strategic level.....may be it is not in their hand, with PoI or Army.

They did well what they were told to do, the long subsequent scenarios should have analysed and planned accordingly by the govt. level.

Can you expand on it?

 

[ashok321]

I believe they have a good success rate at tactical level, but on a broad strategic level.....may be it is not in their hand, with PoI or Army.

They did well what they were told to do, the long subsequent scenarios should have analysed and planned accordingly by the govt. level.

A number of officers from the ISI's Covert Action Division (Special Activities Division) received training in the United States and many covert action experts of the CIA were attached to the ISI

The CIA relied on the ISI to train fighters, distribute arms, and channel money. The ISI trained about 83,000 Afghan mujahideen between 1983 and 1997, and dispatched them to Afghanistan. B. Raman of the South Asia Analysis Group, an Indian think-tank, claims that the Central Intelligence Agency through the ISI promoted the smuggling of heroin into Afghanistan in order to turn the Soviet troops into heroin addicts and thus greatly reducing their fighting potential.

Five Pakistanis who worked as informant for CIA to pass information leading to the Death of Osama bin Laden had been arrested by the ISI. In particular the US was trying to seek the release of Dr Shakil Afridi, a Pakistani who worked for the CIA, passing intelligence leading to the death of Bin Laden. Since then Dr Afridi has been sentenced to 33 years in prison

ISI is suspicious about CIA attempted penetration of Pakistan nuclear asset, and CIA intelligence gathering in the Pakistani law-less tribal areas. Based on these suspicion, it is speculated that ISI is pursuing a counter-intelligence against CIA operations in Pakistan and Afghanistan. ISI former DG Ashfaq Parvez Kayani is also reported to have said, "real aim of U.S. war strategy is to denuclearize PakistanIn the aftermath of a shooting involving American CIA agent Raymond Davis, the ISI had become more alert and suspicious about CIA spy network in Pakistan, which had disrupted the ISI-CIA cooperation. At least 30 suspected covert American operatives have suspended their activities in Pakistan and 12 have already left the country. In the aftermath of a shooting involving American CIA agent Raymond Davis, the ISI had become more alert and suspicious about CIA spy network in Pakistan, which had disrupted the ISI-CIA cooperation.

CIA and ISI has long co-operative history....

 

[KS]

few examples for you to help you understand I wasnt talking nonsense
click on the quotes they are from Western news websites

Sorry for nitpicking. But the getting attacked in a mosque where you are doing namaz is hardly called "in the frontlines". It was just an unfortunate terrorist attack. The Genrals did not go to the mosque unsure of whether they would return..unlike the jawans or NCO or JCO who goes into the battle unsure of whether he would return home after that.

Fine, I'll not prolong this point anyway. They are dead and no point bickering they died where.

 

[Sinnerman108]

I believe they have a good success rate at tactical level, but on a broad strategic level.....may be it is not in their hand, with PoI or Army.

They did well what they were told to do, the long subsequent scenarios should have analysed and planned accordingly by the govt. level.

Can you expand on it?

Lets take this example.
Khalistan was an excellent idea, and it was very well handeled by ISI.
WHEN it was led and supported by capable leadership.

Once the political will was lost, and leadership vanished the organization crumbled.

PPP / Benazir were termed as threats by that time intelligence.

 

[illusion8]

Lets take this example.
Khalistan was an excellent idea, and it was very well handeled by ISI.
WHEN it was led and supported by capable leadership.

Once the political will was lost, and leadership vanished the organization crumbled.

PPP / Benazir were termed as threats by that time intelligence.

That's a very good example.

 

[rockstarIN]

Can you expand on it?

I will take a broad view.

They were told to create problems in India. They did it well over the decades. They did what they were told.

It is the higher leadership who assess the situation that, is it really worth getting into a rivalry with India? on what cost?

(Take it as an example only, lots of ppl will disagree coz of India)

 

[genmirajborgza786]

leaving siachen vacant for far too long, minhas base attack,GHQ attack & kamra attack are big time failure's.


while the successful completion of the nuclear program along with steering it through the trouble some period of the WOT making it stronger then it was ever before with 100 to 110 warheads after all Pakistan has the fastest growing arsenal @ present recognized by the world this is a big achievement & deserves to be appreciated.

successfully guarding Pakistan's eastern frontiers in the 2002/2008 standoffs

however their biggest success is defending the country for the past 11 years from both eastern & western fronts & gaining a good position in the afghan settlement peace process ( much to the discomfort of others ) is with out a doubt a brilliant success & a testament to the efforts that had been put to safe guard Pakistan & Pakistan's national interest !

 

[muse]

however their biggest success is defending the country for the past 11 years from both eastern & western fronts & gaining a good position in the afghan settlement peace process ( much to the discomfort of others ) is with out a doubt a brilliant success & a testament to the efforts that had been put to safe guard Pakistan & Pakistan's national interest !

So, you are suggesting that ISI is best at external threats? And does that mean Another entity be formed to handle internal security?