Is west instigating terrorism against Muslims?

[Developereo]

What Breivik did was insane, unpardonable...but he did not do it for the glory of Christ or for his share of virgin in heaven or under any martyrdom delusion --but because he was under an impression that Europe was being demographically invaded by Muslims from elsewhere who subsequently refuse to integrate and are posing a risk to the European way of life.

He killed innocent civilians to protect his culture from alleged invasion, which is what the Islamists are doing against Western imperialism.

Both cases constitute terrorism regardless of the justification or impetus.

What's interesting, however, is the French gunman killing Jewish kids was classified as terrorism, but the Muslim woman killed in a German courtroom or the Muslim mother of five killed in San Diego were not classified as such by the Western media, even though in both cases there were prior comments about their religion.

 

[Tamizhan]

He killed innocent civilians to protect his culture from alleged invasion, which is what the Islamists are doing against Western imperialism.

Both cases constitute terrorism regardless of the justification or impetus.

No not quite. What Brevik did is comparable to killing of white immigrants or even US army soldiers in place in Middle East by Islamic extremists who are fearful of their way of life being disturbed by western settlers,army men.

Breivik did not fly a plane into a crowded high rise in Dubai or planned to place bombs in a Metro in Saudi. He had no illusions/delusions of establishing a greater kingdom of Christ killing other unbelievers or motivated by the carnal lust of 72 virgins.

Western Imperialism is a BS excuse. If the Muslim countries themselves do not have any hate on other Muslim countries (Arab-Persian hate predates West or Zionism by millenia) or their countries (kingdoms) were not ruled by tinpot dictators or kings who would not hesitate to spread legs with the West, then there would be no western imperialism. Don't blame others when the Islamic world itself is at blame.

 

[fallstuff]

Well it all depends who is defining the terms. The trolls just troll.

 

[Developereo]

No not quite. What Brevik did is comparable to killing of white immigrants or even US army soldiers in place in Middle East by Islamic extremists who are fearful of their way of life being disturbed by western settlers,army men.

Breivik did not fly a plane into a crowded high rise in Dubai or planned to place bombs in a Metro in Saudi. He had no illusions/delusions of establishing a greater kingdom of Christ killing other unbelievers or motivated by the carnal lust of 72 virgins.

No.

OBL and AQ did their acts to avenge the actions of the West on Muslims and the presence of US troops in Arabia. They perceived it as invasion and they retaliated. This is exactly what Brevik did. The motivation and the aims were the same; only the methods used and the pep-talk was different. Your obsession with virgins trivializes the phenomenon. It's a good propaganda ploy, but it does nothing to understand the mindset of the terrorist.

In any case, the point of the thread is whether the West is inciting terrorism against Muslims. The answer is a clear yes, regardless of the self-justification used by the terrorists.

Western Imperialism is a BS excuse. If the Muslim countries themselves do not have any hate on other Muslim countries (Arab-Persian hate predates West or Zionism by millenia) or their countries (kingdoms) were not ruled by tinpot dictators or kings who would not hesitate to spread legs with the West, then there would be no western imperialism. Don't blame others when the Islamic world itself is at blame.

Your denial of facts will not change reality. We know your agenda, so this denial is expected from the likes of you. By your logic, the entire colonial era was a figment of people's imagination. All the world wars waged in the 20th century were all imaginary.

 

[Vassnti]

Well it all depends who is defining the terms..

Who is this "west" you speak of? Is it every one but China? Everyone but Asia? Europe andthe US or everyone who is light skinned?

There is no unified west with a unified goal any more that there is a "Muslims" for it to be against. Even to talk about Europe is to find 20 different policies and opinions on a single topic the same as you can take 20 people from across the middle east or south east Asia and get 20 ideas on a single subject.

 

[Pakistanisage]

All I can say is that there are NUTJOBS in every Faith. Whether you are a Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or a Jew, If you are a nutjob, you are a nutjob. Period.

 

[Vinod2070]

What is meant by this Indian is that close to 180 million Muslims are not supposed to be in India, but should move to Pakistan or Bangladesh according to Two Nation Theory, the founding principle for Pakistan. Proves my point, all is needed is to scratch the surface and the hatred comes out for their own Muslims.

This is what these kind of people need to believe. Every living second, they need to claim this to justify their very existence.

Despite all facts to the contrary.

This is the alternate reality people like him live in and no one can help them. They don't want to be helped in the first place.

 

[Maira La]

and what would be the correct title...genius?

So from all the above comments i take that you guys will be angry is a Muslim criticizes west,but will be glad if it happens the other way round?

Now years of Propaganda against Islam and Muslims is having its effect on people....Anders Breivik being a shining example.

Years of propaganda? That's not the only thing putting the Muslim community in danger. First we need to take care of those mullahs blowing up everything that moves. Should we not leash them first before blaming the west? Let's start at the madrassa level; let's ban madrassas altogether!

 

[Vinod2070]

The "colonial era" didn't start with the Europeans. Even though we have contempt for the "White man's burden" stupid crowd.

OBL didn't just have issues with the "US presence in Arabia". He had much wider grouse against the West (and also many others including Muslims who didn't follow his twisted version of Islam). It was mostly with the ideology including the place of women in society etc.

The problem is that for the likes of AQ and other radicals, the cause justifies any cost in terms of human lives. And any enemy of the cause (they turn out to be mostly Muslims who are not overtly allied to them or worse helping the enemy) is fully deserving of death.

Most victims of AQ are Muslims. A very large number due to their sect (in Iraq and even in Pakistan).

This gives lie to BS behind them being rational political players.

 

[Tamizhan]

No.

OBL and AQ did their acts to avenge the actions of the West on Muslims and the presence of US troops in Arabia. They perceived it as invasion and they retaliated. This is exactly what Brevik did. The motivation and the aims were the same; only the methods used and the pep-talk was different. Your obsession with virgins trivializes the phenomenon. It's a good propaganda ploy, but it does nothing to understand the mindset of the terrorist.

In any case, the point of the thread is whether the West is inciting terrorism against Muslims. The answer is a clear yes, regardless of the self-justification used by the terrorists.

US would not have been there is the Al-Sauds themselves did not allow it. Revenge or defence of way of life in case of Islamic terrorism phenomena is a lame justification. What justification can you have for the london bombers or madrid bombings ?

Breivik is an extremist in his own way - no two ways about that - but he is a reactionary and not under influence of any religious agenda to establish any greater Christian kingdom. His motivation is not the same as those who flew the planes into WTC or those who planted the bombs in London tube or those who planted bombs in Madrid regardless of your obfuscation. These brainwashed bots were lulled into believing that they are doing a great service to allah by blasting these infidels to the other life and that they will be rewarded by Allah for these acts of theirs. Breivik had no such delusions. He had no dreams about establishing a Khilafat or establishing Shariah all over the world.

The likes of Anjem Choudhary are the reason why lunatics like Breivik comes into existence.

If AQ was only against West why were the blasting away the Shia's in Iraq ? You may buy into the terrorist's propaganda that they are oppressed souls hitting back. No other's dont.

Your denial of facts will not change reality. We know your agenda, so this denial is expected from the likes of you. By your logic, the entire colonial era was a figment of people's imagination. All the world wars waged in the 20th century were all imaginary.

The only on denying facts is not me. What has colonialism got to do with the West action on Muslims ? They also colonized India and SE asia..they are instigating Hindus and Buddhists also ? West has moved on from being the actor, to one who reacts.

You know my agenda ? You dont even know my shoe size.

 

[Vinod2070]

US would not have been there is the Al-Sauds themselves did not allow it. Revenge or defence of way of life in case of Islamic terrorism phenomena is a lame justification. What justification can you have for the london bombers ?

Breivik is an extremist in his own way - no two ways about that - but he is a reactionary and not under influence of any religious agenda to establish any greater Christian kingdom. His motivation is not the same as those who flew the planes into WTC or those who planted the bombs in London tube or those who planted bombs in Madrid regardless of your obfuscation. These brainwashed bots were lulled into believing that they are doing a great service to allah by blasting these infidels to the other life and that they will be rewarded by Allah for these acts of theirs. Breivik had no such delusions. He had no dreams about establishing a Khilafat or establishing Shariah all over the world.

The likes of Anjem Choudhary are the reason why lunatics like Breivik comes into existence.

If AQ was only against West why were the blasting away the Shia's in Iraq ? You may buy into the terrorist's propaganda that they are oppressed souls hitting back. No other's dont.

The only on denying facts is not me. What has colonialism got to do with the West action on Muslims ? They also colonized India and SE asia..they are instigating Hindus and Buddhists also ? West has moved on from being the actor, to one who reacts.

You know my agenda ? You dont even know my shoe size.

You know, all of this sounds like evident truth to most of us.

The difference in motivation is clear as mud.

But some people want to obfuscate. They want to find an equivalent to Islamic radicalism and terror in others when there is no such thing.

 

[Tamizhan]

You know, all of this sounds like evident truth to most of us.

The difference in motivation is clear as mud.

But some people want to obfuscate. They want to find an equivalent to Islamic radicalism and terror in others when there is no such thing.

Anyway I have made my points in the clearest possible way man. I'm sure he will be back with another Olympic gold routine verbal gymnastics. But then who cares ? Am I the one being affected by the rising Islamophobia all over the world ? If they themselves don't care and dont look inwards for corrective measures why should I care ?

I'm off to celebrate Agni V's success which is more important to me and not waste time on this

 

[fallstuff]

Who is this "west" you speak of? Is it every one but China? Everyone but Asia? Europe andthe US or everyone who is light skinned?

There is no unified west with a unified goal any more that there is a "Muslims" for it to be against. Even to talk about Europe is to find 20 different policies and opinions on a single topic the same as you can take 20 people from across the middle east or south east Asia and get 20 ideas on a single subject.

I have not noticed any concerted effort to instigate terrorism against Muslims in the West. However, the rhetoric from the right wilg folks is something of concern. You have not heard the right wing folks here in USA routinely call Obama a Communist.

Some of the stuff these folks say can make an average person cringe. It can do a number on the imprssionable mind.
I don't doubt the defense of Beverik that he felt threatened.

 

[Developereo]

US would not have been there is the Al-Sauds themselves did not allow it. Revenge or defence of way of life in case of Islamic terrorism phenomena is a lame justification. What justification can you have for the london bombers or madrid bombings ?

Where do you see anyone justifying terrorism? Don't let your bigotry cloud your reading comprehension.

In all these cases, the terrorists claim they are 'paying back' for injustices committed by the other side.

Breivik is an extremist in his own way - no two ways about that - but he is a reactionary and not under influence of any religious agenda to establish any greater Christian kingdom. His motivation is not the same as those who flew the planes into WTC or those who planted the bombs in London tube or those who planted bombs in Madrid regardless of your obfuscation. These brainwashed bots were lulled into believing that they are doing a great service to allah by blasting these infidels to the other life and that they will be rewarded by Allah for these acts of theirs. Breivik had no such delusions.

Everyone claims to be a reactionary. All terrorists justify their deeds by claiming they are righting the alleged wrongs done by the other side. The only difference is that certain elements have the backing of an official military to push their agenda, while others do it in a ragtag fashion.

He had no dreams about establishing a Khilafat or establishing Shariah all over the world.

And Western institutions have an agenda to extend/maintain their hegemony over the world. Just because one is religious in nature and the other commercial doesn't change the fact that they have similar goals.

The likes of Anjem Choudhary are the reason why lunatics like Breivik comes into existence.

And the likes of Netanyahu or Meir Kahane are the reason the Anjem Choudrys come into existence.

Extremists on both sides feed off each other. They need each other to justify their existence.

If AQ was only against West why were the blasting away the Shia's in Iraq ? You may buy into the terrorist's propaganda that they are oppressed souls hitting back. No other's dont.

I said the Western imperialism is one of their self-justifications. Just because they have other agendas does not negate the first.

The only on denying facts is not me. What has colonialism got to do with the West action on Muslims ? They also colonized India and SE asia..they are instigating Hindus and Buddhists also ? West has moved on from being the actor, to one who reacts.

The colonialism was mentioned to show up the invalidity of your claim that "If the Muslim countries themselves do not have any hate on other Muslim countries (Arab-Persian hate predates West or Zionism by millenia) or their countries (kingdoms) were not ruled by tinpot dictators or kings who would not hesitate to spread legs with the West, then there would be no western imperialism."

Western imperialism was imposed on all continents, Muslim and otherwise, so your predictably bigoted claim that "there would be no western imperialism" needed to be highlighted.

You know my agenda ? You dont even know my shoe size.

We know you want to justify your own bigotry by twisting facts and deliberately misrepresenting the situation. Justifying the West's actions indirectly justifies your own hatred of Muslims.

As for your shoe size, thanks but no thanks. Unlike you, I am not obsessed by other people's private concerns or their sexual fantasies.

 

[Developereo]

All I can say is that there are NUTJOBS in every Faith. Whether you are a Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or a Jew, If you are a nutjob, you are a nutjob. Period.

But the point -- and the premise of this thread -- is that the Western media is feeding and nurturing anti-Muslim extremism. It is only natural that some of these extremists will go the extra step and commit criminal acts.

You know, all of this sounds like evident truth to most of us.

Funny.

That's exactly what the terrorists say about their convictions!