Is west instigating terrorism against Muslims?

[ali786]

Of course west encourages terrorism. have you seen them win or try winning any hearts and minds anywhere in the world??

The wests foreign policy creates terrorism. If the west stopped its aggressive foreign policy of placing puppets in foreign lands/stopped invading/stopped being a BIASED helper of Israel instead of being neutral in the situation I bet you now 100% that almost all islamic terrorism would stop in the west.

 

[K-Xeroid]

After 9/11 now every one who enters US and bears the name that is Islamic is being checked for their identity, But the case of SRK and APJ, I litrally don't know why these guys were racist on their part.

Correct! I guess nearly 20 person had taken part in 9\11 but watever happened with muslims after that in western countries, even number of hating baised articles and comments, even Quran burning and other lots of reaction they have shown, there reaction is more likely an evidence its own to show their current metal status.

 

[Vinod2070]

Correct! I guess nearly 20 person had taken part in 9\11 but watever happened with muslims after that in western countries, even number of hating baised articles and comments, even Quran burning and other lots of reaction they have shown, there reaction is more likely an evidence its own to show their current metal status.

It had support of much more than 20. There were groups in the UK that supported the "magnificent 19". OBL had majority support in Pakistan as per a survey.

The vast majority of Western Muslims have stayed put and are prospering!

How many have returned from the West after 9/11? How many are still going to the West?

That must tell you something.

 

[kalu_miah]

We had an established and widely publicized phenomenon of "Islamic Terror", should we now have another established phenomenon of "Islamophobic Terror", a general case, which can be divided into "Christian/Western Terror", "Hindu Terror" and "Chinese Terror", all groups which take Muslim lives in invasion and occupation with impunity in declared or undeclared war against Muslims?

Note that Western media jumped on this Norwegian terror case as a new delicious case of "Islamic Terror", but as soon as the facts in the case became clear, that this man was actually an Islamophobe and Christian/Western/European nationalist, then he suddenly became a lone deranged madman and the media just dropped this like a 100 lb lead ball, specially in the US and of course mainly in Murdoch's media empire (where Prince Talal is the 2nd highest share holder).

Does this mean, that Western, Hindu and Chinese media, blog-sphere and web forums are not fair and impartial when it comes to Islam and Muslims? Of course it is old news, but just could not resist pointing it out.

How is Anwar Al-awlaki an ideologue and "terrorist" who is hunted down with drones different than ideologues in the opposing Islamophobic camp Pam Geller, Wilders, Robert Spencer, Daniel Pipes and their ilk, who have directly inspired this "Christian/Western Terror" and many other unreported cases hidden in the state run "Global War on Terror"? Should we not include and initiate in the GWOT to fight the other kinds of terrors as well, as obviously there are demonstrated cases that are starting to show up?

How about the Hindu Nationalists in our neighborhood who are whipping up their own campaign of Islamophobia into a frenzy in websites/blogs and media with occasional burst on their own minorities and a state policy reflected to their Muslim neighbors?

 

[kalu_miah]

Terrorism comes from failed systems. West was instrumental in breaking down our systems, but if it was not them, it would be somebody else. The main fault was ours, we were weak and vulnerable and hence the breakdown. It is time that Muslim majority countries of the world try to create frameworks to rebuild their systems into working viable ones, that can compete with others in the global market place. I will not promote my "world order" thread anymore, hopefully everyone has gotten tired of it by now.

Regardless of how disunited we Muslims are and regardless how we like to think that one's action does not affect the other, when a Nigerian or a Pakistani get caught on some act of "Islamic terror" it affects the good name and reputation of 1.6 billion Muslims. So we need to get the message out that foolish actions in the name of Islam will not be acceptable under any circumstances.

 

[kalu_miah]

Personalities like Ropert Spencer, Pam Geller et al, are spouting nonsense from an alternate reality. Like Geobbles, their mode of operation is if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth, perhaps they even believe in what they spout.

Islamic Terror have never been or never will be (as far as I can tell) an existential threat like the Soviet Union was for the West. Russia still has Nuclear Missiles pointed at many places. So where is all this nonsense coming from. Several sources:

1. one, it was the misfortune of Arabs to break away from the Turks which gave Europeans the opportunity to dump a population they did not want in their midst, so a country was created out of thin air, and this group of people with their entrenched power in the US are engaged in a scorched earth policy of propaganda against Arab and Muslims to have them eternally on back foot
2. Initially there was not much support for their effort among Christian evangelists, but ingenious and resourceful as they are, they eventually recruited the religious right in the US and they also found fellow victims of Muslims in a faraway land, Hindu's of India. There is one group they could not convince yet about their fight, which is the neo-nazi, white supremacists who never seem to trust their manipulations
3. Finally Hindu's of India have a long history with Muslims, where there were alleged historical atrocities like all medieval wars do, and a lot of people converted to Islam in that region over the centuries

The idea is that Muslims want to take over the world, their proof, some clueless bearded idiots march with posters like "Islam will rule the world" and of course groups like Al Qaeda and their ongoing violent Jihad is the main excuse.

Since Muslims are such vile creatures, it means then that they should not be allowed to live and pollute pure lands of the West. In this anti-Muslim crusade, Breivik also supports Israel and Hindu nationalists and encourages them to drive out Muslims from their land. I can understand that he wants no more Muslims to move to the West, as they could try to take over these countries (?) but how can he and other Islamophobes who he borrows from, support the idea that they should drive out Muslims from India? There is around 170-200 million Muslims in India, it is their native land, where will they go? To neighboring Muslim countries?

A small number of Turkic people migrated to India from Central Asia, some of whose descendants are present in a good part of the Indian Muslim population, but a good majority are Hindu natives who converted to Islam. So now the Zionists have not only spawned a hate campaign to drive out Muslims from the West and Israel, but are also supporting and encouraging Hindu nationalists to do the same in India. As it is that part of the world is a tinderbox with a mix of volatile politics, hunger and malnutrition with the irrationality of malfunctioning brains that go with it, and these bright ideologues, who probably never set foot in India are creating potential problems for a vast number of unfortunate souls there, whose only fault and crime is that they were born in a certain faith.

My point is that there is not a clash of civilization in the West, nor is there one in Israel, it is a manufactured one of limited scope, if there was a clash of civilization of monumental proportion, it is in South Asia, where things went from bad to worse since 1947. People who know nothing about this region should not touch it with a ten foot pole. It is freedom of speech for them, but it becomes a matter of life and death for others in faraway places, like it did in this instance.

If this does not qualify as shouting fire in a crowded cinema, I am not sure what will. 6 million Jewish people perished in the Holocaust, imagine what will happen if Hindu nationalists try to exterminate or drive out 200 million Muslims from India.

 

[kalu_miah]

Breivik says he would do it all again - World (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Breivik says he would do it all again
Updated April 18, 2012 06:05:17

Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik has told a court his twin attacks, which killed 77 people, were "sophisticated and spectacular" and he would do them again.

On the second day of his trial, Breivik took the stand for the first time after one of the trial's five judges was dismissed for posting an online comment saying the 33-year-old gunman should face the death penalty.

Breivik has pleaded not guilty and said he was defending his country by setting off a car bomb that killed eight people at government headquarters in Oslo last July, then killing another 69 people in a shooting spree at a youth summer camp organised by the ruling Labour Party.

"I have carried out the most sophisticated and spectacular political attack committed in Europe since the Second World War," Breivik told the court in a 73-minute prepared statement.

"They (Norwegians) risk being a minority in their own capital in their own country in the future.

"Yes, I would have done it again, because offences against my people ... are many times as bad."

Speaking in a calm and composed voice as he presented his Islamophobic and anti-immigration ideology, Breivik described Oslo as a "multicultural hell".

"People who call me evil have misunderstood the difference between evil and brutal," he said, adding that the US's World War II decision to drop nuclear bombs on Japan was, like his carnage, also made with "good intentions."

"I acted out of goodness, not evil."

Tears for 'dying' country

On Monday, prosecutors screened a 12-minute Islamophobic video made by Breivik and broadcast on the internet on the day of the attacks, featuring photos of Islamists set to soft music.

The 33-year-old extremist, who opposes Norway's generous immigration policies, welled up in tears as the video played.

Asked by the prosecutor on Tuesday why he had cried, he responded: "Because my country is in the process of dying - it was the sorrow over seeing my country ... deconstructed."

It was "especially the songs, combined with the message" that brought tears to his eyes, he said, adding: "It was my first YouTube video."

People who call me evil have misunderstood the difference between evil and brutal.

Anders Behring Breivik
While he has admitted the killings and will likely be kept behind bars for the rest of his life, Breivik's main objective is to prove he is sane, a court judgement that he sees as vindicating his anti-Muslim and anti-immigration cause.

The high school dropout has said being labelled insane would be a "fate worse than death".

If found guilty and sane, Breivik faces a maximum 21-year sentence but could be held indefinitely if he is considered a continuing danger.

If declared insane, he would be held in a psychiatric institution indefinitely with periodic reviews.

Norway does not have the death penalty.

Breivik's testimony has not been broadcast on television due to concerns that the gunman could use the trial as propaganda for his violent cause.

Judge sacked

PHOTO: Thomas Indreboe posted an online comment saying Breivik should get the death penalty. (Reuters: Hakon Mosvold Larsen)
The day began in controversy after the court dismissed a lay judge after he posted a comment on a Facebook page days after the massacre saying the gunman should face the death penalty.

Two professional judges, as well as three lay judges chosen from civil society, preside over the court.

Lay judge Thomas Indreboe posted "The death penalty is the only just outcome of this case" on a Facebook page.

After a 30-minute recess to reach a decision, chief judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen said Mr Indreboe was unfit to continue because of the comments.

He will be replaced by one of two substitute judges already in court.

On Monday, Breivik appeared for the first time in court, giving a clenched-fist salute, smirking at the court and pleading not guilty in a trial that threatens to showcase his anti-Islamic views.

Breivik listened impassively for hours on the first day of the trial as prosecutors read out an indictment detailing how he massacred teenagers trapped on a island resort outside Oslo.

During the attacks, Breivik shot most of his victims several times, often using the first shot to take down his target then following up with a shot to the head. His youngest victim was 14. He later surrendered as "commander of the Norwegian resistance movement".

Public platform

More than 200 people sat in the specially built courtroom while about 700 attack survivors and family members of victims watched on closed-circuit video around the country.

Some Norwegians fear Breivik will succeed in turning the trial, with about 800 journalists on hand, into a platform for his anti-immigrant ideas.

One Norwegian newspaper offered online readers a way to remove all Breivik-related stories.

His defence team has called 29 witnesses to argue Breivik was sane, with a world view shared by a narrow group of people.

His proposed witnesses include Mullah Krekar, the Kurdish founder of Islamist group Ansar al-Islam, who was recently jailed in Norway for making death threats, and "Fjordman", a right-wing blogger who influenced Breivik.

Breivik is scheduled to testify for about a week.

An initial psychiatric evaluation concluded that Breivik was criminally insane while a second, completed in the past week, found no evidence of psychosis.

Resolving this conflict could be the five-judge panel's major decision during the trial.

The trial is scheduled to last 10 weeks.

AFP/Reuters

 

[Vinod2070]

Personalities like Ropert Spencer, Pam Geller et al, are spouting nonsense from an alternate reality. Like Geobbles, their mode of operation is if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth, perhaps they even believe in what they spout.

Islamic Terror have never been or never will be (as far as I can tell) an existential threat like the Soviet Union was for the West. Russia still has Nuclear Missiles pointed at many places. So where is all this nonsense coming from. Several sources:

1. one, it was the misfortune of Arabs to break away from the Turks which gave Europeans the opportunity to dump a population they did not want in their midst, so a country was created out of thin air, and this group of people with their entrenched power in the US are engaged in a scorched earth policy of propaganda against Arab and Muslims to have them eternally on back foot
2. Initially there was not much support for their effort among Christian evangelists, but ingenious and resourceful as they are, they eventually recruited the religious right in the US and they also found fellow victims of Muslims in a faraway land, Hindu's of India. There is one group they could not convince yet about their fight, which is the neo-nazi, white supremacists who never seem to trust their manipulations
3. Finally Hindu's of India have a long history with Muslims, where there were alleged historical atrocities like all medieval wars do, and a lot of people converted to Islam in that region over the centuries

The idea is that Muslims want to take over the world, their proof, some clueless bearded idiots march with posters like "Islam will rule the world" and of course groups like Al Qaeda and their ongoing violent Jihad is the main excuse.

Since Muslims are such vile creatures, it means then that they should not be allowed to live and pollute pure lands of the West. In this anti-Muslim crusade, Breivik also supports Israel and Hindu nationalists and encourages them to drive out Muslims from their land. I can understand that he wants no more Muslims to move to the West, as they could try to take over these countries (?) but how can he and other Islamophobes who he borrows from, support the idea that they should drive out Muslims from India? There is around 170-200 million Muslims in India, it is their native land, where will they go? To neighboring Muslim countries?

A small number of Turkic people migrated to India from Central Asia, some of whose descendants are present in a good part of the Indian Muslim population, but a good majority are Hindu natives who converted to Islam. So now the Zionists have not only spawned a hate campaign to drive out Muslims from the West and Israel, but are also supporting and encouraging Hindu nationalists to do the same in India. As it is that part of the world is a tinderbox with a mix of volatile politics, hunger and malnutrition with the irrationality of malfunctioning brains that go with it, and these bright ideologues, who probably never set foot in India are creating potential problems for a vast number of unfortunate souls there, whose only fault and crime is that they were born in a certain faith.

My point is that there is not a clash of civilization in the West, nor is there one in Israel, it is a manufactured one of limited scope, if there was a clash of civilization of monumental proportion, it is in South Asia, where things went from bad to worse since 1947. People who know nothing about this region should not touch it with a ten foot pole. It is freedom of speech for them, but it becomes a matter of life and death for others in faraway places, like it did in this instance.

If this does not qualify as shouting fire in a crowded cinema, I am not sure what will. 6 million Jewish people perished in the Holocaust, imagine what will happen if Hindu nationalists try to exterminate or drive out 200 million Muslims from India.

There is no question of denying the massive atrocities and barbarity perpetrated by the uncivilized barbarians. They are recorded by Muslim historian themselves with much glee. That was a proof of piety for them and of the fact that they were the chosen ones of God.

However, our civilization being much superior and tolerant, we have not tried to go take revenge. The ones who perpetrated the atrocities are rotting in hell.

India is even now a victim of Islamic terror. All kinds of terrorists in our West are coming and killing our people and will kill more if we are not vigilant. The desire to again occupy what was once supposedly an Islamic controlled land, do a "Gazwa-E-Hind" and probably a massive accompanying orgy of rapine, genocide and slavery remains an ideal for the followers of that bigoted ideology.

We are aware of what danger lurks and need to make sure we crush it in the womb.

We have no designs on anyone. We just want to live in peace. Keep your wet dreams to do a gazwa or dominate us home and all is good. We are not planning a revenge but if the terror continues, who knows of tomorrow!

 

[Zabaniyah]

Extremism in any form is bad. Period.

The coward Anders Breivik was both an extremist and a terrorist. If he really wanted to prove himself as per his ideology, he should have just gone into Afghanistan and kill some Talibunny or Al-Queda. Not a bunch of Norwegian kids.

The same goes for terrorists who want to create terror in the name of Islam. Don't go about blowing up things filled with innocents who have nothing to do with conflict. Instead, go to Iraq, Afghanistan or any conflict zone. At least they'd die with a bit more honor.

 

[Vinod2070]

Personalities like Ropert Spencer, Pam Geller et al, are spouting nonsense from an alternate reality. Like Geobbles, their mode of operation is if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth, perhaps they even believe in what they spout.

Islamic Terror have never been or never will be (as far as I can tell) an existential threat like the Soviet Union was for the West. Russia still has Nuclear Missiles pointed at many places. So where is all this nonsense coming from. Several sources:

1. one, it was the misfortune of Arabs to break away from the Turks which gave Europeans the opportunity to dump a population they did not want in their midst, so a country was created out of thin air, and this group of people with their entrenched power in the US are engaged in a scorched earth policy of propaganda against Arab and Muslims to have them eternally on back foot
2. Initially there was not much support for their effort among Christian evangelists, but ingenious and resourceful as they are, they eventually recruited the religious right in the US and they also found fellow victims of Muslims in a faraway land, Hindu's of India. There is one group they could not convince yet about their fight, which is the neo-nazi, white supremacists who never seem to trust their manipulations
3. Finally Hindu's of India have a long history with Muslims, where there were alleged historical atrocities like all medieval wars do, and a lot of people converted to Islam in that region over the centuries

The idea is that Muslims want to take over the world, their proof, some clueless bearded idiots march with posters like "Islam will rule the world" and of course groups like Al Qaeda and their ongoing violent Jihad is the main excuse.

Since Muslims are such vile creatures, it means then that they should not be allowed to live and pollute pure lands of the West. In this anti-Muslim crusade, Breivik also supports Israel and Hindu nationalists and encourages them to drive out Muslims from their land. I can understand that he wants no more Muslims to move to the West, as they could try to take over these countries (?) but how can he and other Islamophobes who he borrows from, support the idea that they should drive out Muslims from India? There is around 170-200 million Muslims in India, it is their native land, where will they go? To neighboring Muslim countries?

A small number of Turkic people migrated to India from Central Asia, some of whose descendants are present in a good part of the Indian Muslim population, but a good majority are Hindu natives who converted to Islam. So now the Zionists have not only spawned a hate campaign to drive out Muslims from the West and Israel, but are also supporting and encouraging Hindu nationalists to do the same in India. As it is that part of the world is a tinderbox with a mix of volatile politics, hunger and malnutrition with the irrationality of malfunctioning brains that go with it, and these bright ideologues, who probably never set foot in India are creating potential problems for a vast number of unfortunate souls there, whose only fault and crime is that they were born in a certain faith.

My point is that there is not a clash of civilization in the West, nor is there one in Israel, it is a manufactured one of limited scope, if there was a clash of civilization of monumental proportion, it is in South Asia, where things went from bad to worse since 1947. People who know nothing about this region should not touch it with a ten foot pole. It is freedom of speech for them, but it becomes a matter of life and death for others in faraway places, like it did in this instance.

If this does not qualify as shouting fire in a crowded cinema, I am not sure what will. 6 million Jewish people perished in the Holocaust, imagine what will happen if Hindu nationalists try to exterminate or drive out 200 million Muslims from India.

There is a lot in this self serving post that can be rebutted. At this point I will stop myself from most of it.

There is no "clash of civilization of monumental proportion" in India. India is providing her Muslims the maximum freedom and democracy that is not available to any Muslims anywhere in the world.

Especially in most Islamic countries!

They say, mulla ki daud masjid tak.

Kalu miah ki daud "Indian Hindus" tak.....

Whatever the topic, your needle gets stuck on "Indian Hindus".

Stop the obsession. "Indian Hindus" have nothing to do with you and your ilk. We saved your parents generation and handed you a country, sacrificing our lives.

Now go and live your life happily in the dar-ul-harb.

This much obsession and hatred only creates reciprocal feelings against whatever ideology you claim to represent...

 

[Tamizhan]

There is around 170-200 million Muslims in India, it is their native land, where will they go? To neighboring Muslim countries?.

Not that anyone needs to go anywhere as they are happy in our country -- but for history sake, wasn't that the core concept of TNT and the resulting partition ?

 

[kalu_miah]

Not that anyone needs to go anywhere as they are happy in our country -- but for history sake, wasn't that the core concept of TNT and the resulting partition ?

What is meant by this Indian is that close to 180 million Muslims are not supposed to be in India, but should move to Pakistan or Bangladesh according to Two Nation Theory, the founding principle for Pakistan. Proves my point, all is needed is to scratch the surface and the hatred comes out for their own Muslims.

 

[TruthSeeker]

The answer to the thread title is very simple: No. Terrorism is not the sole invention of Muslim Jihadis, but they are the world's leading practitioners of it today. What the "West" is doing is a reaction to Jihadi terrorism.

 

[Developereo]

This thread is about the West and Muslims. Can we leave India out of this for once?

On topic, the dominant West has created a narrative that terrorism (i.e. deliberate collateral damage) by Western armies is acceptable but revenge by the natives is not. Combined with this is the Zionist agenda to paint all of Israel's enemies as enemies of the collective West, and the channeling of Western xenophobia of all third world migration towards a specific minority.

 

[Tamizhan]

yes and his actions were a direct reaction of how western leaders and media perpetually degrade Islam and muslims.....

What Breivik did was insane, unpardonable...but he did not do it for the glory of Christ or for his share of virgin in heaven or under any martyrdom delusion --but because he was under an impression that Europe was being demographically invaded by Muslims from elsewhere who subsequently refuse to integrate and are posing a risk to the European way of life.

What is meant by this Indian is that close to 180 million Muslims are not supposed to be in India, but should move to Pakistan or Bangladesh according to Two Nation Theory, the founding principle for Pakistan.

Dum dum....historically wasn't that the proposition of Jinnah ? Am I saying something new here ?